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Subject: Crowdfunded edition: New Society expansion (add-on!) and balance changes (yes) rss

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Tucker Taylor
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From the crowdfunding page:
"The new edition will contain not only the base game, but also the existing expansion by Karl-Heinz Schmiel."

It sounds like:
1) This is the "Banquet" expansion.
2) Tom Lehmann's "New Society" expansion is not being included.
3) ... therefore Tom's balance changes for the Mistress of Ceremonies and Observatory may also not be included.

Can anyone confirm or deny?

Updated: Per crowdfunding update 5, the balance changes for the Mistress and Observatory are already included. The New Society expansion is a stretch goal. The Banquet expansion is already included.

Further Updated: Stretch goal reached; half the New Society is included, and the other half is now available as an add-on.
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Craig Liken
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Re: Crowdfunded edition: New Society expansion and balance changes?
You could be right - the Mistress pictured on the kick starter page looks to have the original costings. A bit odd that they wouldn't have used the New Society costs.
 
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Michael Meyer
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Re: Crowdfunded edition: New Society expansion and balance changes?
from the crowdfunding page (comment section):

" The released expansion "New Society" will not be included in this edition. "

outch!
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Tucker Taylor
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Re: Crowdfunded edition: New Society expansion and balance changes?
Scubaroo wrote:
from the crowdfunding page (comment section):

" The released expansion "New Society" will not be included in this edition. "

Thanks! Good to know, I guess. I'm actually less concerned about the expansion, and more about the balance tweaks. But I guess those won't be there either. Oh well.

(I am likely not backing it in any event. I enjoy Saint Pete, but not to the tune of $90.)
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Frank Noack
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Re: Crowdfunded edition: New Society expansion (no) and balance changes?
I am still working on a better shipping solution to North America. I am already in contact with some potential partners. I will inform you, if we can lower the shipping costs somehow.

If I can find a less expensive way, all supporters that already joined from North America may choose to get the overspending for shipping refunded or use it otherwise.

Regarding the "New society": I only played the original SP. I asume the tweaks "New Society" makes with some cards, are balanced as long as they are played together with the other New Society cards. In the original game, without the expansion, the game might be in balance.

Maybe somebody here can tell me more about that. Does the Mistress of Ceremony need to be rebalanced in the original base game? I will ask HiG on Monday about that.
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Tucker Taylor
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Re: Crowdfunded edition: New Society expansion (no) and balance changes?
Frank Noack wrote:
I am still working on a better shipping solution to North America. I am already in contact with some potential partners. I will inform you, if we can lower the shipping costs somehow.

If I can find a less expensive way, all supporters that already joined from North America may choose to get the overspending for shipping refunded or use it otherwise.

That would be awesome, thank you! For what it's worth I don't think the quoted shipping cost is out of line at all; it's just not really in my budget at the moment.

(Also, please don't use UPS, as they are jerks who like to tack on extra fees for international shipments.)

Quote:
Regarding the "New society": I only played the original SP. I asume the tweaks "New Society" makes with some cards, are balanced as long as they are played together with the other New Society cards. In the original game, without the expansion, the game might be in balance.

Maybe somebody here can tell me more about that. Does the Mistress of Ceremony need to be rebalanced in the original base game? I will ask HiG on Monday about that.

There's a pretty solid consensus that the Mistress of Ceremonies as it stands is too powerful *on the first turn*.

The Mistress and the Observatory may be a little too strong in general, and the Czar And Carpenter worker may be too weak. Tom Lehmann (the designer of New Society) gave some of his thoughts on why he'd made the change to the Observatory in this thread.
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Re: Crowdfunded edition: New Society expansion (no) and balance changes?
Frank wrote in the Spieleschmiede thread that he will discuss the license situation of "New Society" with HiG.
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Re: Crowdfunded edition: New Society expansion (no) and balance changes?
I've played it against the AI some hundred plays or so by now. I would preorder the new version in a heartbeat if it featured the expansion changes. Will hold off until then.
 
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Jeremy Yoder
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Re: Crowdfunded edition: New Society expansion (no) and balance changes?

I just learned about this project and was super excited, as St P is one of my few "10" games! While I like the charm of the original artwork, I'm not opposed to less cartoony images, so I figured it'd be an auto-buy.

Shipping is a bit high for my wallet, but still, it's a favorite. But when I learned it didn't have New Society cards, my interest painfully fizzled. It's not just the re-balanced cards, but the extra cards added give it some needed variety. They've all become staples -- I'd never take them out.

Though I'm intrigued by the extra phase, I assume I could play without it if don't care for it. (Just like we don't play with Banquet cards as they don't add much). But without New Society, I can't get on board as I'd feel like I'm playing version 1.0 again.

However, I'll hold out hope I see above that Frank (nice to meet you!) is passing along the concern. *fingers crossed*
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Daniel Eig
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Re: Crowdfunded edition: New Society expansion (no) and balance changes?
Saint Pete update without the New Society?

Thanks, but no thanks. Its a brilliant expansion, and makes much needed balance improvements.
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Re: Crowdfunded edition: New Society expansion (no) and balance changes?
Quote:
Maybe somebody here can tell me more about that. Does the Mistress of Ceremony need to be rebalanced in the original base game? I will ask HiG on Monday about that.


Many people believe that the mistress of ceremony and the observatory were imbalanced in the original game, if they happen to appear on the first turn the person who bought them will have a huge advantage to win providing he doesnt make any mistake.

The new society expansion fixes that with some replacement cards that fixes the cost of the cards.

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Jeremy Yoder
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Re: Crowdfunded edition: New Society expansion (no) and balance changes?

New Society also adds new cards, which are important too.
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Re: Crowdfunded edition: New Society expansion (no) and balance changes?
JYoder wrote:

New Society also adds new cards, which are important too.


Yep:



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Jonathan Takagi
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Re: Crowdfunded edition: New Society expansion (no) and balance changes?
This probably isn't the best place for this comment, but in our group we concluded that the Sycophant is overpowered for its price. We house-ruled it to cost 5 instead of 1. Even then it's a no-brainer when it pops up.
 
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Jeremy Yoder
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Re: Crowdfunded edition: New Society expansion (no) and balance changes?

Just an FYI, but a new StP second edition page has been added to BGG at the link below, which people might want to subscribe to. I also posted a couple new threads as they make sense at that location...

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/156943
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Frank Noack
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Re: Crowdfunded edition: New Society expansion (no) and balance changes?
Ok, here are the news you are waiting for:

HiG made an official statement regarding the "New Society" expansion in the Saint Petersburg Crowdfunding News on Spieleschmiede (check the news on the profect page)
http://www.Spiele-Offensive.de/Saint-Petersburg

Besides the statement shows why HiG did not make the expansion part of the redesign the last word is not yet spoken. HiG launched a survey to find out, if players REALLY think the expansion is a good addition to the game.
https://de.surveymonkey.com/s/NB6GPJQ

For me it looks like if players have the expansion and actually use it, they will reconsider their decission. If they have it, and do not use it, they obvously won´t.

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Jeremy Yoder
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Re: Crowdfunded edition: New Society expansion (no) and balance changes?

Thanks for the update, which seems fair enough. As much as I love the New Society replacements and new cards (such as Farmers, etc) I am curious how many players have and use the exp.

The results of your poll will be interesting. I've voted!
 
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Re: Crowdfunded edition: New Society expansion (no) and balance changes?
I'm tired of nonsense polls. Please, we can't answer rightly the wrong questions:

Suggest real people (famous geeks) for card portraits in the reprint.

surprise What?! No! soblue


What color do you prefer for the cover?


wow I prefer the old cover and the old art! Why don't you asked this at the beginning? shake


Which expansions do you want?


I want all expansions. What kind of crowdfunding is this? And first the best ones, of course.


A great opportunity lost to make a definitive edition.

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Jeremy Yoder
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Re: Crowdfunded edition: New Society expansion (no) and balance changes?

Deacon Blue wrote:
I'm tired of nonsense polls. Please, we can't answer rightly the wrong questions:

Do you want to suggest real people (famous geeks) for card portraits in the reprint?

surprise What?! No! soblue


What color do you prefer for the cover?


wow I prefer the old cover and the old art! Why don't you asked this at the beginning? shake


Which expansions do you want?


I want all expansions. What kind of crowdfunding is this? And first the better ones, of course.


A great opportunity lost to make a definitive edition.





OK... now this is just getting embarrassing.

They didn't have to listen to us at all. They have the rights, the creator's backing -- they have all the cards. And bottom line, they're a business. What good would it do to almost identically recreate the original? If they did, would current owners buy it? Most likely not. So a face-lift also gives current owners incentive.

Don't get me wrong -- I also like the original artwork. And I love the New Society exp. Regardless, their project is already fully funded in less than 1 day! They don't owe us anything, and if they did too many things wrong, it wouldn't have sold out, but that's obviously not the case.

Frankly, if I were them, I'd be tempted to ignore us with some of these responses. I'm at least glad a reprint is in the works. More StP is a good thing.
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Jim Krohn
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Re: Crowdfunded edition: New Society expansion (no) and balance changes?
Quote:
Many people believe that the mistress of ceremony and the observatory were imbalanced in the original game, if they happen to appear on the first turn the person who bought them will have a huge advantage to win providing he doesnt make any mistake.

The new society expansion fixes that with some replacement cards that fixes the cost of the cards.


They were...and the New Society expansion fixed the problem.

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Burster of Bubbles, Destroyer of Dreams.
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Re: Crowdfunded edition: New Society expansion (no) and balance changes?
My comment on the survey (terse to fit in the box):

I wrote:
Changed nobles/buildings are critically important. Violet cards are sometimes used and sometimes left out. 5th player is rare but does happen sometimes. New Farmer adds real choices to worker phase.
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Re: Crowdfunded edition: New Society expansion (no) and balance changes?
Morganza wrote:
My comment on the survey (terse to fit in the box):

I wrote:
Changed nobles/buildings are critically important. Violet cards are sometimes used and sometimes left out. 5th player is rare but does happen sometimes. New Farmer adds real choices to worker phase.


Agree on the first bit. We played with the violet cards a couple of times and then dropped them as they just seemed to introduce a kinda "Munchkin effect" on an otherwise good, serious game. 5th player option is actually the most critical as it radically increases the chances of getting the game on the table.
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Jeremy Yoder
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Re: Crowdfunded edition: New Society expansion (no) and balance changes?

Frank Noack wrote:
Ok, here are the news you are waiting for:

HiG made an official statement regarding the "New Society" expansion in the Saint Petersburg Crowdfunding News on Spieleschmiede (check the news on the profect page)
http://www.Spiele-Offensive.de/Saint-Petersburg

Besides the statement shows why HiG did not make the expansion part of the redesign the last word is not yet spoken. HiG launched a survey to find out, if players REALLY think the expansion is a good addition to the game.
https://de.surveymonkey.com/s/NB6GPJQ

For me it looks like if players have the expansion and actually use it, they will reconsider their decission. If they have it, and do not use it, they obvously won´t.



OK, so it's only been 3 days... I'm pathetic, I know... but I'm very curious if you can share anything yet. Such as poll results, if there's a good chance New Society will make it in, etc.

I also have this pending question I'd like to know for sure...

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1145040

Thanks in advance!
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Frank Noack
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Re: Crowdfunded edition: New Society expansion (no) and balance changes?
I am a bit in a hurry, so just this note to inform you:

The new society Expansion will be available partly as stretchgoal, partly as addon option, after the stretchgoal was reached.

http://www.Spiele-Offensive.de/Saint-Petersburg
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Tucker Taylor
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Re: Crowdfunded edition: New Society expansion (maybe) and balance changes (yes)
Frank Noack wrote:
I am a bit in a hurry, so just this note to inform you:

The new society Expansion will be available partly as stretchgoal, partly as addon option, after the stretchgoal was reached.

http://www.Spiele-Offensive.de/Saint-Petersburg

Thank you! I've updated the original post to reflect that.

(Now I just have to hope you can work some magic for North American shipping costs... )
 
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