Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
17 Posts

Eldritch Horror» Forums » Rules

Subject: On Memory rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Jan Probst
Germany
Kiel
Schleswig Holstein
flag msg tools
I quite dislike the notion that I should remember anything for a game - if it wants something to be remembered or kept track of, it may well provide components to do so. This ideology may have been reaffirmed by Pathfinder's overt and explicit "Card's don't have memories" design philosophy, but has been pretty much a foundation of any rules interpretation I do anywhere even before. (If two interpreations conflict and one requires component memory while the other ones does not, I'm likely to dismiss the first one out of hand.)

So how does everyone handle "once per turn" things in EH?

For asset/spell based stuff it's patently obvious, tap them.
Not so easy for Investigator (edit) abilities (not component actions. sorry for the confusion that caused). I give them an eldritch token to keep on their sheet and slide over the ability text once used - seems there are enough of them to not run out even in fringe quest circumstances, so that doesn't seem like a too disruptive solution.

Semi-related on the topic of memory:
How hard-line are you about spells and conditions?
Once they have been flipped/seen once due to cast, Jaqueline, or having been triggered (and flipped back instead of discarded as a few conditions do), I prefer to allow referencing the flipsides for planning purposes. It is known.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jon Ben
Canada
Vancouver
British Columbia
flag msg tools
badge
Of course I've been up all night! Not because of caffeine, it was insomnia. I couldn't stop thinking about coffee.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think you have a good solution for the once per turn powers. I agree that such things should have a tracking solution, it isn't hard to improvise. You could even tap the character sheet

As for spells I agree that players should be able to read the back at any time once they've seen it. I think that even if all but one of a certain card have been seen the players are allowed to see the back of the remaining one. So if both spells are out and someone sees the back of one, then the other one can also be read. There is no reason to reward memorization, if something can be known then I'd prefer to let it be known.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jan Probst
Germany
Kiel
Schleswig Holstein
flag msg tools
JonBen wrote:
You could even tap the character sheet

Dude, no go, 4p solo on well sub 90x90 couchish table leaves no room for shenanigans like that. shake
Could use dinner table but would be sorely tempted to go 6-8P solo then, probably replicating the space issues.
Group also uses bigger but less square couch table, so fits 4 but is also crampedish.

Quote:
So if both spells are out and someone sees the back of one, then the other one can also be read.

Good point, wanted to mention that too but forgot.
1 
 Thumb up
1.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jon Ben
Canada
Vancouver
British Columbia
flag msg tools
badge
Of course I've been up all night! Not because of caffeine, it was insomnia. I couldn't stop thinking about coffee.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
LOL, 4p solo! No wonder you're having trouble keeping track of everything!
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rob Wrigley
United States
New York
flag msg tools
Avatar
mb
As little note, I find 'tapping' cards to be a bit annoying and destroys the oh-so-perfect card interface I have set up below a character sheet. Using and Eldritch token is a nice solution, but not what I use.

What I do use are decorative gems. These are little flattened glass beads. They are sold in craft stores, nurseries, and dollar stores. They come in a large variety of colors, are dirt cheap, and more attractive than any other generic game component. Go buy a few bags, and a nice plano box to store them. They have a million uses.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jan Probst
Germany
Kiel
Schleswig Holstein
flag msg tools
Like ye olde Jyhad life tokens?

In any case, using tokens to "tap" even cards actually sounds like a decent idea, having a thingy there seems like a better reminder that you have some resources left to make optimal use of than card positioning.

For anyone remotely coming from Magic, actual tapping will probably be too ingrained and natural to do that though.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris J Davis
United Kingdom
London
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Overtext pending moderation...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
But how do you remember whether you've seen a spell card or not?
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Cody Gardner
Canada
Oshawa
Ontario
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I don't think it's alot really to remember, the effort of tapping a card or even using eldrtich tokens seems disproportional. Each investigator gets TWO, count them TWO actions per turn (unless Charlie gives them a third). Sure they can't repeat BUT the first one can be anything, and the second one all you have to remember is don't do the thing I did 30 SECONDS AGO! Are you taking a smoke break in between actions? It seems strange to think you can't "keep track" of the one action you just completed. Besides I think it's ok to need to remember things in games. When you play magic do you need a token to remind you about summoning sickness or a cube to show who has flying? When you play chess do you need a turn marker and a token with 1 on it you can flip after you move so you don't "forget" to only move one piece a turn? Implement whatever memory removal system you want but the action limit isn't tricky, unless Charlie gives you another action a few turns later the only thing is don't do the same action twice in a row.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jan Probst
Germany
Kiel
Schleswig Holstein
flag msg tools
bleached_lizard wrote:
But how do you remember whether you've seen a spell card or not?
Placing them left and right of the sheet works! (As opposed to below say, for assets)
Edit: On a more serious note, it's a filthy rotten house rule in the first place, so I obviously can't hold the game to provoding materials for it.
Also also, I consider component memory an unfortunate design choice, I am not too stupid to remember things. So I'll just remember it.
(I am fine with *choosing* to remember things. It's only when a game expects me to that I get cranky.)

Sandlewood99 wrote:
I don't think it's alot really to remember, the effort of tapping a card or even using eldrtich tokens seems disproportional.

Well yeah, the "no component memory please" thing is clearly ideological, not primarily slack-based.
Edit: And i'm obviously not talking about, say, rememrbeing that I just now did a move action so cannot do another. That happens right now here, so is not the point. (Also yes to the smoke breaks.)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Cameron McKenzie
United States
Atlanta
Georgia
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Sandlewood99 wrote:
I don't think it's alot really to remember, the effort of tapping a card or even using eldrtich tokens seems disproportional. Each investigator gets TWO, count them TWO actions per turn (unless Charlie gives them a third). Sure they can't repeat BUT the first one can be anything, and the second one all you have to remember is don't do the thing I did 30 SECONDS AGO! Are you taking a smoke break in between actions? It seems strange to think you can't "keep track" of the one action you just completed. Besides I think it's ok to need to remember things in games. When you play magic do you need a token to remind you about summoning sickness or a cube to show who has flying? When you play chess do you need a turn marker and a token with 1 on it you can flip after you move so you don't "forget" to only move one piece a turn? Implement whatever memory removal system you want but the action limit isn't tricky, unless Charlie gives you another action a few turns later the only thing is don't do the same action twice in a row.


It's not always just actions. For example, Lola Hayes has an ability which can be activated once per round, and could be done during any phase on any person's turn.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J Kaemmer
United States
Iowa City
Iowa
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Considering you only get 2 actions a turn, It can't be too hard to remember using a component action. I would be more concerned about one time passive abilities like Lola's extra dice (I place an additional dice on my character sheet each turn and don't pick it up after its been used). Tapping is good, but seriously? you have a problem with component actions? you would literally need to forget what you did 2 seconds ago and try to do it again.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jan Probst
Germany
Kiel
Schleswig Holstein
flag msg tools
iswearihaveajob wrote:
Considering you only get 2 actions a turn, It can't be too hard to remember using a component action. I would be more concerned about one time passive abilities like Lola's extra dice (I place an additional dice on my character sheet each turn and don't pick it up after its been used). Tapping is good, but seriously? you have a problem with component actions? you would literally need to forget what you did 2 seconds ago and try to do it again.

Yes, it's about one-time abilitites, not actions, I used the wrong word in the OP. Noone obviously forgets about their actions in the 2 second between doing them. It's also not about forgetting, but about preferences how games handle trackkeeping.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Luke
Italy
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Weltenreiter wrote:

How hard-line are you about spells and conditions?
Once they have been flipped/seen once due to cast, Jaqueline, or having been triggered (and flipped back instead of discarded as a few conditions do), I prefer to allow referencing the flipsides for planning purposes. It is known.


Imo looking at the back of a card just cause it was previously flipped isn't any different to looking at it when it was totally unknown.
I never let myself/my mates check the back of the card if it has been flipped previously; neither by the same person.

Casting a spell once shouldn't allow you to know all the possible outcomes of casting that spell again (they also state to flip themselves back).
If you encounter a Monster you need to remember what are its strengths.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jon Ben
Canada
Vancouver
British Columbia
flag msg tools
badge
Of course I've been up all night! Not because of caffeine, it was insomnia. I couldn't stop thinking about coffee.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Soul_Guile wrote:
Weltenreiter wrote:

How hard-line are you about spells and conditions?
Once they have been flipped/seen once due to cast, Jaqueline, or having been triggered (and flipped back instead of discarded as a few conditions do), I prefer to allow referencing the flipsides for planning purposes. It is known.


Imo looking at the back of a card just cause it was previously flipped isn't any different to looking at it when it was totally unknown.
I never let myself/my mates check the back of the card if it has been flipped previously; neither by the same person.

Casting a spell once shouldn't allow you to know all the possible outcomes of casting that spell again (they also state to flip themselves back).
If you encounter a Monster you need to remember what are its strengths.


If you play the game enough it's not hard to remember these details. The game should be balanced for seasoned players who know all the cards. So looking at the back of an already revealed card just gives everyone that level of knowledge.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Luke
Italy
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
we probably aren't playing enough to remember all those odds. (I tought 1/week to be a lot... modest)
with this level of knowledge, not being able to look at the back of an already revealed card just adds more excitement to the game.
furthermore in case we flip a card (say a spell) we limit ourselves to read only the relevant part and not the rest.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jon Ben
Canada
Vancouver
British Columbia
flag msg tools
badge
Of course I've been up all night! Not because of caffeine, it was insomnia. I couldn't stop thinking about coffee.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Soul_Guile wrote:
not being able to look at the back of an already revealed card just adds more excitement to the game.


This, I think is the real difference between the two mindsets. I don't find that exciting at all. I would rather have more information so that the merit of different decisions can be properly considered. That decision making process is the fun and excitement for me. I don't want to have to memorize things so that I can have fun.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Luke
Italy
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I understand and totally respect that!
just to expand the subject, I think that (e.g.) blind casting a spell adds a feeling of reality to the game (similarly to the fact that, even if you are very strong in you may fail a strength test - compared to the real life odds that make you fail a ..."test" even if you are good at it).
if you manage to cast that spell 3 or 4 times then you know the spell so well that you can understand its aftermaths.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.