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Subject: A couple (lot) of questions rss

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Wallace MacBix
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Hey guys, I still haven't had a chance to get caught up with every other thread here, but I've read through a number (as well as read the rule book, most of the supplemental pdfs, and watch some youtube vids) but I still have some questions/some things I'd like some clarification/confirmation.



1) Fate Dice: Are their only purpose (for the heroes) for fate recipes? I guess I ask that because my initial thoughts (before reading) had me thing that they could be used in conjunction with each heroes deck (if a soldier rolled a rage that counted as +1 rage for any of his cards played). After reading I see that isn't the case, but do they have any point besides activating an item?

1a/2) Forming a Dice Pool
While I don't remember reading this in the book, do you only use the weapon bonus from an item if you use that weapon in the attack? If so, is the following correct for dice usage?

Soldier:
Only uses the shield item bonus dice for cards that say "Shield"
Any other skill uses the main weapon bonus dice

Brigand:
Whenever in Shadows you gain +2 FD for either the next attack or the next full combo (is this right?)

Apprentice:
Only the 2 "Attack" cards use the main hand weapon dice.
All other skills use the Focus item bonuses (all cards with "Arcane", "Ice", "Air", "Fire", and "Earth" monikers)

Acolyte:
Only "Smite" uses the main hand weapon dice.
All other skills use the Relic item bonuses (all cards with "Holy" and "Fire")

Archer:
All attack cards require a bow and uses it's dice bonuses (and a quiver)

-There are 3 accessories that also grant FD (Mythical Cloak, Eldric's Picks, Kira's Tear): Do these items always grant their FD bonus? (The same question would apply if a helm or armor granted FD or d10s)


3) AP cost:
If something reduces the cost of AP from 1 to 0 (Feet of the Saints, for example) and no one has any AP cost 2 cards, at the end of the Hero Cycle are the Heroes punished as if they were loitering?

--Also (to point out something not obvious) that cards that cost 0 AP now cost -1 AP (and reduce Darkness meter) [based on a response from here: http://megacongames.vanillaforums.com/discussion/comment/249... ]


4) How many checks do the minions get to counter Shadows?
The manual just says "If one enemy notices him, all others after do not need to make a notice test."

Does this mean each monster makes a check before it moves, until one passes? Does just the scout make the check when bringing his buddies with him or do you make a check for each monster part of that group? Or, is there just 1 check per type of monster (one for minion crawlers, another for crawler captains, and a 3rd for muckers)?


5) "Armor"
A few cards say that they "ignore armor (-2TN)" does this effect all enemies, or only those marked as "armored" (grubbers and muckers). I can't tell if it's flavor text or a mechanic.

6) "Range: Weapon"
If the range says "Range: Weapon" a weapon must be equipped to use that card, if the range is a number of squares or title then it can be used barehanded. Is this correct?

7) Cleared tile movement:
I have seen many people say (and heard Brian say in gameplay vids) that once a tile is clear you have double MP (both base and from any cards played). Where does it say this in the rules?


8) Some simple clarifications:
For cards that have different bonuses/penalties based on movement. (Looking at the Soldier cards: Harvest of Bones, This Yoke is Heavy, and Blade Dance.) When ever there is a -#TN that means it is easier to hit the target (aggressive movement on This Yoke is Heavy), but if it lists +#TN it makes it harder to hit the target (stationary on Blade Dance, aggressive movement on Harvest of Bones). A slight aside with "Gift of the Underworld", the +#HC means that the DoT stays for that many extra HC.

8a: Why do Sprint and Hustle say "Yes" under Stationary, Cautious, and Normal movement when any card that grants MP forces the Hero to move Aggressively?


9) Targeting
Do attack cards have to target an enemy? I don't know if this applies to other cards, but for example, Shadow's Reach: "Appears next to target within 3 squares. 1 attack on 1 target. Not considered a Move." Does the one you teleport next to have to be the recipient of the attack?

M- minion
S- solider (or any ally)
B- brigand
X- empty space

XMX XMX
XSX SR XSB
XXX ==> XXX ==> then target the minion with the attack
XXX XXX
XBX XXX

Even if you must target the recipient of the teleport, can you still use it to target an ally? A brigand needs to get to a better position and another ally can take the hit, is that allowed? (I was about to say they could just play a block or parry card, but those are only allowed during the DC).




10) Interrupt cards and movement:
Okay I think this is my last one (but the one that bothers me the most).
So, you can use the benefit of any level of movement from a card if you either first move, or later plan to move. But looking at the 9 interrupt cards in the soldier deck (and those in the archer deck too), all of them say Stationary.

Does this mean that if you move in the Hero Cycle (either to get into range of a normal melee attack or just for better positions) you can't play any Interrupt skills? Or if another Hero starts a DC before the soldier does anything on a given HC that by using an Interrupt skill the soldier forfeits his ability to move? I

I know that's what the cards say, but 9/25 cards in the soldiers deck become useless if he has to move (or he's forced to make other heroes trigger a DC so he can do something). And 6 others require movement (Sprint x2, Hustle x2, Riding the Edge x2) it just seems odd that so many cards make each other useless/unplayable.


Sorry for the long-windedness, any answers/responses are appreciated.



I feel that after at least 5 hours of trying to figure out this game I should have a better understanding of these rules. :/ I enjoy complicated games (Mage Knight has to be my second favorite game), but this rule book leaves more than just simple FaQ questions.
 
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Endevor Rovedne
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I don't have time to anwer (going away to play Myth ), but you could read this:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/15266669#15266669

most of your questions are answered the
 
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Wallace MacBix
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I was only about 1/3 of the way through the first post before I decided to write the other questions I had. I'm still working on reading it, but haven't seen answers to the above yet. Though I just refresh the page and the first post seems a bit different now, time to start again.
 
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Jarad Bond
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I'm feeling chatty. You definitely need to read Endevor's FAQ link. This is required reading to play Myth right.

1) Correct - nothing I've seen uses fate dice except recipes (and only the recipes on the equipment you are making attacks with)

2) Looks spot on except the archer. Archer can equip a melee weapon and make any attacks that have (Optional - Ammo) at range 1. If it says (Required - Ammo), you wouldn't be able to use it without bow and quiver and some arrows stored away. Since FD are only rolled on an attack, armor and accessories would have to add to that. There is still some question about why the Bulwark grants +2FD when it has no recipes though. (Shields do not combine with swords... they are an alternate weapon as far as attacks are concerned)

3) That's goofy. Just goes to show that you shouldn't try to guess designer's intent. You would technically be loitering, I guess. Here's another one that'll make your head spin. If you REDUCE the AP by 1, you're technically not loitering because you added SOMETHING (not nothing... you added -1) to the AP bar, right? But seriously, I think they want positive increases in AP bar every turn. That MUST be what the designer... intended. pg 17 of the rulebook states you have to spend at least one AP every cycle to avoid loitering.

4) I don't know. We haven't played the brigand yet.

5) I didn't even notice that. Good question.

6) A good rule of thumb seems to be that those with Range:X are spells and need your book/relic to work (or they aren't attacks in the first place and equipment is irrelevant)

7) Not in the rulebook - it was a change since the printed version. We're hoping for a v2 rulebook with the second wave/retail game.

8a) Has to be an oversight. It doesn't really matter though, except that it's confusing to have states that are impossible to reach (your point, of course). I noted the soldier has Riding the Edge, which is how all move cards should be.

9) The rulebook states (pg 28) that you can use two Shadow's Reach cards back to back to pop in, hit a lair, then pop back out, away from danger. That tells me you don't need to use your attack, if the rulebook is to be believed. If I had a wand, I think I would feel free to blink wherever I wanted and target anyone within range. I would add that if the only thing a card did was attack, I do not think you could play it without a target just to avoid Loitering.

10) Correct. I got nailed by movement restrictions a number of times last night. It is part of his tactical choices. He was VERY powerful when I was running around smashing things, but then I couldn't hunker down to resist the darkness when I wanted to. However, with a small bit of planning, I could have done some charge attacking when Darkness AP was low, then triggered the DC in the next HC when I hadn't moved at all to attract attention and go Impenetrable.

Quote:
Sorry for the long-windedness, any answers/responses are appreciated.



I feel that after at least 5 hours of trying to figure out this game I should have a better understanding of these rules. :/ I enjoy complicated games (Mage Knight has to be my second favorite game), but this rule book leaves more than just simple FaQ questions.


This rulebook does not teach you the rules. I hope they have time to playtest their v2 rulebook. There is no way anyone could have learned to play this this game correctly from the book.
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Wallace MacBix
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logris wrote:
I'm feeling chatty. You definitely need to read Endevor's FAQ link. This is required reading to play Myth right.

1) Correct - nothing I've seen uses fate dice except recipes (and only the recipes on the equipment you are making attacks with)

2) Looks spot on except the archer. Archer can equip a melee weapon and make any attacks that have (Optional - Ammo) at range 1. If it says (Required - Ammo), you wouldn't be able to use it without bow and quiver and some arrows stored away. Since FD are only rolled on an attack, armor and accessories would have to add to that. There is still some question about why the Bulwark grants +2FD when it has no recipes though. (Shields do not combine with swords... they are an alternate weapon as far as attacks are concerned)

3) That's goofy. Just goes to show that you shouldn't try to guess designer's intent. You would technically be loitering, I guess. Here's another one that'll make your head spin. If you REDUCE the AP by 1, you're technically not loitering because you added SOMETHING (not nothing... you added -1) to the AP bar, right? But seriously, I think they want positive increases in AP bar every turn. That MUST be what the designer... intended.

4) I don't know. We haven't played the brigand yet.

5) I didn't even notice that. Good question.

6) A good rule of thumb seems to be that those with Range:X are spells and need your book/relic to work (or they aren't attacks in the first place and equipment is irrelevant)

7) Not in the rulebook - it was a change since the printed version. We're hoping for a v2 rulebook with the second wave/retail game.

8a) Has to be an oversight. It doesn't really matter though, except that it's confusing to have states that are impossible to reach (your point, of course). I noted the soldier has Riding the Edge, which is how all move cards should be.

9) The rulebook states (pg 28) that you can use two Shadow's Reach cards back to back to pop in, hit a lair, then pop back out, away from danger. That tells me you don't need to use your attack, if the rulebook is to be believed. If I had a wand, I think I would feel free to blink wherever I wanted and target anyone within range. I would add that if the only thing a card did was attack, I do not think you could play it without a target just to avoid Loitering.

10) Correct. I got nailed by movement restrictions a number of times last night. It is part of his tactical choices. He was VERY powerful when I was running around smashing things, but then I couldn't hunker down to resist the darkness when I wanted to. However, with a small bit of planning, I could have done some charge attacking when Darkness AP was low, then triggered the DC in the next HC when I hadn't moved at all to attract attention and go Impenetrable.

Quote:
Sorry for the long-windedness, any answers/responses are appreciated.



I feel that after at least 5 hours of trying to figure out this game I should have a better understanding of these rules. :/ I enjoy complicated games (Mage Knight has to be my second favorite game), but this rule book leaves more than just simple FaQ questions.


This rulebook does not teach you the rules. I hope they have time to playtest their v2 rulebook. There is no way anyone could have learned to play this this game correctly from the book.


Thanks for the response! I just finished going through the unofficial FaQ. And while it only answered about 2 of my 10 questions it did clear up some other things (though I only skimmed the trap section based on the manual I had no idea Darkness Falls trap worked that way...)

1) thanks I didn't realize you had to use that weapon to be able to use that recipe.

2) ah I get that about the archer now (my initial thoughts were that weapons didn't matter, then I changed to the above, now I think I have it down, though still it was not made clear in the rules)

3) Yeah....I know. It's odd that you can actually hurt yourself by using strong cards. While I didn't ask (because in my head this makes sense), I may as well just mention this too. A lot of green weapons have a "-1 AP fate recipe" but you will still not be considered loitering if combined with a +1 AP skill (it's just that you first added 1 then subtracted it with the fate dice netting 0).

4) Good luck with him, it seems most people have a hard time figuring him out correctly. I'm just trying to now because I think my friend would want to play him out of the roster.

5) Based on some other clarifications I'd assume it only applies to "Armored" creatures, but I'd want an official response. I read some people talking about "massive" attacks (the ranger has one and maybe the brigand), and I think Brian said that it was a type of attack that would see more modifiers in the future. So while it seems like it's just flavor it's most likely a mechanic.

6) That's what I've gotten from reading around here (sorry my initial wording was talking about either a non-spell caster). Though from the book I didn't get the impression that a relic/book was even required (again I thought it was just flavor text that they "power" spells, ie boost them with extra die - not a requirement).

7) Yeah... I would like a rulebook that was more in-depth/had the necessary corrections.

8a) Agreed.

9) Hmm I chucked that example up to jumping into a spot surrounded by enemies, then jumping back out to the fringes of it (then either move away from the enemies or go back into Shadows to deflect their attention). Not a teleport without a target. I haven't looked at the Hero-Deck-Reference-Sheets-REV4c.pdf yet though, maybe that goes into a little more detail.

Also I thought that you could use attack cards with no "target" to stop the loitering penalty. In a 2 player game it is possible that after a tile is cleared that you don't have any movement/buff based cards that give AP and even with 4MP you may not make it to the edge of a tile. (Heck the solider only has 6 cards that provide AP that aren't attack cards, not great odds, especially since they are also all move cards).


10) Damn that makes me sad. I'll have to see how it works out when I finally get to try a play test and my first real game.


-----

Agreed. Honestly I still am pumped for this game, just a lot less than I was. I still have a lot of positive things to say about it (minis are nice, the control over the game, how the darkness pushes back, etc.), but these rules are very bad at teaching the actual game (especially for how long they are). Further the manual makes the base game seem more like a preview instead of a full game. So many things are teased but not included in the base game (last I counted were ~10 things). I should be happy when all the stretch goals arrive, but if I was just buying this off the shelf I would feel cheated.
 
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Endevor Rovedne
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5) i quickly answer that, the -2TN is working on all monsters
The Armored keyword is not used at the moment and will be used in future publications.
This is from a direct email conversation with Brian during translation.

Phorin if you read this it is a good candidate for unoff FAQ
 
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Jarad Bond
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FALCN120 wrote:
10) Damn that makes me sad. I'll have to see how it works out when I finally get to try a play test and my first real game.


Haha, I doubt you'll be sad. I had a blast! I just laughed it off the third time I messed up my defense. Next time it'll be perfect...

As a side note, so far, I've found that the soldier has best kill potential. Good -TN cards, a high damage card, one of the best AoE's (if you can get there). And then Blade Dance for the out-of-turn killing...
 
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Wallace MacBix
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Endevor wrote:
5) i quickly answer that, the -2TN is working on all monsters
The Armored keyword is not used at the moment and will be used in future publications.
This is from a direct email conversation with Brian during translation.

Phorin if you read this it is a good candidate for unoff FAQ


Thanks for the official response, and glad my confusion can be of benefit to all.
 
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Wallace MacBix
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logris wrote:
FALCN120 wrote:
10) Damn that makes me sad. I'll have to see how it works out when I finally get to try a play test and my first real game.


Haha, I doubt you'll be sad. I had a blast! I just laughed it off the third time I messed up my defense. Next time it'll be perfect...

As a side note, so far, I've found that the soldier has best kill potential. Good -TN cards, a high damage card, one of the best AoE's (if you can get there). And then Blade Dance for the out-of-turn killing...


Well makes me sad as I was already planning wonderful killing combos of running inside a group and murdering them all when they try to attack. Plus it'll make position a lot more important for him over the other characters, who either have ranged attacks or various teleport/movement skills.

And is blade dance really that useful? At +2TN crawlers take a 6 and grubbers a 7, not impossible but still pretty hard with just 2d10 (even if you get a couple swings).
 
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Tony Pecorelli
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Note that Feet of the Saints only reduces attack Actions by 1 AP, not reactions, interrupts, or movement. So it's not as powerful as it might seem at first, but it's much easier than you think to avoid the loitering penalty. I made the same mistake with it at first.
 
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Jeremy Steward
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Some of these have been answered but I wanted to give you a more complete set.

1) Fate Dice: They are currently only used for fate recipes

1a/2) Forming a Dice Pool

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1142553/compilation-of-i...


3) AP cost:
If something reduces the cost of AP from 1 to 0 (Feet of the Saints, for example) and no one has any AP cost 2 cards, at the end of the Hero Cycle are the Heroes punished as if they were loitering? Yes, but remember that only attack actions are affected by feet of the saints.

--Also (to point out something not obvious) that cards that cost 0 AP now cost -1 AP (and reduce Darkness meter) I didn't think of that but I don't think there are any attack actions with 0 AP


4) How many checks do the minions get to counter Shadows?
The manual just says "If one enemy notices him, all others after do not need to make a notice test." 1 per monster

5) "Armor"
A few cards say that they "ignore armor (-2TN)" does this effect all enemies, or only those marked as "armored" (grubbers and muckers). I can't tell if it's flavor text or a mechanic. I would have said that it affects monsters like muckers and grubbers but apparently that's wrong. I don't understand why the muckers have the word "armored" on their card then.

6) "Range: Weapon"
If the range says "Range: Weapon" a weapon must be equipped to use that card, if the range is a number of squares or title then it can be used barehanded. Is this correct? See #2.

7) Cleared tile movement:
I have seen many people say (and heard Brian say in gameplay vids) that once a tile is clear you have double MP (both base and from any cards played). Where does it say this in the rules? They missed it-tho most is scattered in various places. You do get double MP - they added to the narrative setup.


8) Some simple clarifications:
For cards that have different bonuses/penalties based on movement. (Looking at the Soldier cards: Harvest of Bones, This Yoke is Heavy, and Blade Dance.) When ever there is a -#TN that means it is easier to hit the target (aggressive movement on This Yoke is Heavy), but if it lists +#TN it makes it harder to hit the target (stationary on Blade Dance, aggressive movement on Harvest of Bones). A slight aside with "Gift of the Underworld", the +#HC means that the DoT stays for that many extra HC. This is correct

8a: Why do Sprint and Hustle say "Yes" under Stationary, Cautious, and Normal movement when any card that grants MP forces the Hero to move Aggressively? Because its better than leaving it blank?


9) Targeting
Do attack cards have to target an enemy? I don't know if this applies to other cards, but for example, Shadow's Reach: "Appears next to target within 3 squares. 1 attack on 1 target. Not considered a Move." Does the one you teleport next to have to be the recipient of the attack? You have to follow the card. Some cards (like tumble) do allow you to only use the movement portion, but that is not the case with Shadow's Reach - you have to move adjacent to an enemy and attack it.



10) Interrupt cards and movement:
Okay I think this is my last one (but the one that bothers me the most).
So, you can use the benefit of any level of movement from a card if you either first move, or later plan to move. But looking at the 9 interrupt cards in the soldier deck (and those in the archer deck too), all of them say Stationary.

Does this mean that if you move in the Hero Cycle (either to get into range of a normal melee attack or just for better positions) you can't play any Interrupt skills? Or if another Hero starts a DC before the soldier does anything on a given HC that by using an Interrupt skill the soldier forfeits his ability to move? Correct

 
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Wallace MacBix
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Deadwolf wrote:
A lot of good stuff


Thanks for the response. After I finished reading through the unofficial FaQ I did find the answers to some of them. And others have also helped me clarify things. I feel like I have a decent grasp of the basic rules (with the rule book/the unofficial FaQ next to me), but now I'm finding more inserting questions during my demo play.

And thanks for more clarification on my 9th and 3rd question. The negative AP cards are less powerful than I thought, but still need to be careful, on several hands I've drawn 4 interrupts and an AP cost 1 on my soldier, while being very low on the darkness meter (not that I'm complaining about that).

Oh one question that I don't think I saw an answer to (things are becoming a bit blurry in my head).

If you draw a "Focused Spawn" from the darkness deck, but there are no lairs do you still increase the Darkness by +2AP? I'd assume so, because it states after a Normal Spawn you increase it, and in this case the Normal Spawn is no spawn, but am not 100% sure.

As an aside: having 2 lairs with a "Deadly Spawn" is very annoying, 4 Captains are not something I wanted to deal with early in my Act.
 
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Jarad Bond
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FALCN120 wrote:
Well makes me sad as I was already planning wonderful killing combos of running inside a group and murdering them all when they try to attack. Plus it'll make position a lot more important for him over the other characters, who either have ranged attacks or various teleport/movement skills.

And is blade dance really that useful? At +2TN crawlers take a 6 and grubbers a 7, not impossible but still pretty hard with just 2d10 (even if you get a couple swings).


So, it turns out that you don't have to be sad after all... I just discovered something after surfing through random schtuff on their site. I posted the full thing on the Unofficial FAQ thread:

http://boardgamegeek.com/article/15280386#15280386

In a nutshell, for interrupts, you can completely ignore all movement restrictions and pretend the card doesn't actually say "No" to all the movement styles.
 
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