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Pathfinder Adventure Card Game: Rise of the Runelords – Base Set» Forums » General

Subject: I am so sad about the game because it is far too easy rss

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Christine S
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We played yesterday adventure deck 4 and used for the first time character sheets (the premium ones from user Myfly). They reallly look nice when printed out. everybody in my group enjoyed these. During game play the game turned strange. In the second scenario, the villain had only 23 to be defeated. Ezren rolled 47 with his dice including bonus. In the third scenario, we had 11 blessings left after killing the villain. Why is it so easy?
Collecting the cards and optimizing your deck is cool... but there is no challenge..
What do you think?

One more crit: at the end of the 3rd scenario there was only one (!) loot card. How did you distribute this one card to your 4 to 6 players? We did had some fight about who will get this one loot card.

Question: In your group which character got it and why?
Please respond. Looking for your experience...

c.
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Wulf Corbett
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Elmo1978 wrote:
In the second scenario, the villain had only 23 to be defeated. Ezren rolled 47 with his dice including bonus. In the third scenario, we had 11 blessings left after killing the villain. Why is it so easy?
Yes, we've done that a few times too. Fighting the Villain tends not to be the challenge, just beating the timer is. We're often still down to just a couple of cards from the end of the timer deck & have to organise things fast. We're now fighting the Stone Giants, and have tried adding a 7th location (to a 4-character game) to increase difficulty. Not only does it make timing even more critical, but we have to use up more Blessings (and everything else!) to get through that extra location deck.

EDIT: One more thing - we have found deck 4 to offer a bigger challenge, but possibly not for the intended reason - we only have one character - Lini - with a decent Wisdom score, and there are a lot of Wisdom checks in these scenarios...
Quote:
One more crit: at the end of the 3rd scenario there was only one (!) loot card. How did you distribute this one card to your 4 to 6 players? We did had some fight about who will get this one loot card.

Question: In your group which character got it and why?
I can't remember every piece of Loot, but we still have them all, we haven't Banished any Loot, because it'll never recycle back into the game! We just decide who can make best use of it. I think Seoni got the first Shialion Medallion, as she tended to have the biggest discard pile... After a few pieces of Loot, our question was more "Do we really need this?" rather than "How do we decide who gets this?" If that was the Emerald Codex, Merisiel has it at present (she's the party pack rat, with as many Items as any other 2 characters combined...), because Valeros doesn't use spells, and the other 2 (Seoni and Lini) already have their own...
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Brian Grell
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What spell did Ezren cast to get a 47? Was it a combo of spell, blessings/other cards, and bonuses? What is his bonus for Arcane as well?
 
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Wulf Corbett
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Malgamus wrote:
What spell did Ezren cast to get a 47?
40-odd isn't hard to reach if characters cooperate, and they've still got the appropriate cards in Hand. A combination of weapons, spells, support (Valeros is good for that) and long range archery, plus an appropriate Blessing, and all the applicable bonuses can easily accumulate that.
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Andrew Warner
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RE: Loot

Other than the medallion, all the loot items are unique and given in groups of varying quantities, so it is a little surprising your group for the first time has a situation where there is not enough loot rewarded for each character to get one. Maybe this us just the first time most of you wanted the same loot?

You just have to decide as a group who gets it. If you can't reach a consensus, maybe just have everyone roll a d12 and give it to the highest result.
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aurax golden chubby dragon
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Increase the number of locations.

Easy to do and increases the difficulty a lot. Succeeding on beating the villain's combat roll is almost always a piece of cake, however winning the scenario before running out of time if you have a lot of locations is not.

Also keep in mind that is a game with permadeath - dying is indeed difficult, but if it happens, the drawback is immense, especially if you are as far as deck 4. Therefore, is OK as it is IMHO.

Anyway, the game is easy. And that is what it is. If you want a brutal challenge, play Space Hulk Death Angel with the Tyranids expansion, o Mage Knight TBG on max difficulty settings


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Balen
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The vanilla game is definitely easy overall, but it varies throughout the Scenarios and Adventures as well as depends on your party composition.

Try out some simple variants. There are many easy to implement rules that increase the difficulty drastically without changing much, if any of the mechanics.
 
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Chuck Tuttle
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Try introducing the linear movement rule...that will increase the chances of running through the blessings deck much higher. Also, playing with 3+ characters makes it much easier to defeat the villain. MY group has started limiting blessings to "a character at your location." That way, you don't get blessings from all over the place. This was probably the easiest adjustment that had the most impact. The linear movement will eat through the blessings in character decks as you need to use them to explore again.
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Wulf Corbett
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Wulf Corbett wrote:
I can't remember every piece of Loot, but we still have them all, we haven't Banished any Loot, because it'll never recycle back into the game!
Well, after finishing off the last of the Giants Campaign, we Banished the Medusa Mask! It had never been used since it was picked up anyway (although we did decide to treat it as an Item, so it may return in play sometime)...

Lini is now the only one of 4 characters with no Loot item... shake

Thanks to a series of quick closures (one of the decks had a Henchman as first card on the deck!), we finished in plenty of time, But we did have to cooperate to be happy rolling to defeat the villain - even though the actual result of the rolls (2 needed) was way over what was needed! It's one thing saying "I could roll that" and another saying "I can roll that reliably"...
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Andrew Warner
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Wulf Corbett wrote:
Wulf Corbett wrote:
I can't remember every piece of Loot, but we still have them all, we haven't Banished any Loot, because it'll never recycle back into the game!
Well, after finishing off the last of the Giants Campaign, we Banished the Medusa Mask! It had never been used since it was picked up anyway (although we did decide to treat it as an Item, so it may return in play sometime)...


Given that it has no check to acquire (no skill or difficulty) what will you do if you encounter it?
 
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Wulf Corbett
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269Hawkmoon wrote:
Given that it has no check to acquire (no skill or difficulty) what will you do if you encounter it?
No idea. Probably say "Nah, never liked it anyway" and banish it again...
 
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Todd Warnken
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You can never encounter loot in a location. They are only awarded for winning a scenario.
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Wulf Corbett
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Mundane wrote:
You can never encounter loot in a location. They are only awarded for winning a scenario.
Yes, I know. But that means not retaining them after a scenario means they'll never appear again, which is a shame. So, in other words, you won't encounter them in a scenario, but we might.
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Calthaer the Bard
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That is a very sneaky plug for Myfly's "PREMIUM" playmats there.

Sorry that your one-scenario sample size has lead you to believe that the game is too easy. Have you considered using one of the many house rules to increase the challenge?
 
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Christine S
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Calthaer wrote:
That is a very sneaky plug for Myfly's "PREMIUM" playmats there.

Sorry that your one-scenario sample size has lead you to believe that the game is too easy. Have you considered using one of the many house rules to increase the challenge?


What is a plug?
 
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Todd Warnken
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Elmo1978 wrote:
Calthaer wrote:
That is a very sneaky plug for Myfly's "PREMIUM" playmats there.

Sorry that your one-scenario sample size has lead you to believe that the game is too easy. Have you considered using one of the many house rules to increase the challenge?


What is a plug?


Plug = advertisement
 
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Christine S
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Sorry, that was my feedback/experience of my play group with adv deck 4.
We introduced the playmats. Far too easy game play and we struggled about the emerald codex loot item. Damn. So the best thing of the evening were the new character sheets everybody agreed on that... It is a pitty that we got these so late in the adventure path. Just two adv decks to go :-(

C.
 
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Scott Smart

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How many people are in your party? 3 or fewer really is too easy (as I posted on Paizo's site) because some of the difficult henchmen aren't there or the Temple location isn't there with the Harpys. If you're playing 4 or more, the game is difficult enough compared to the other AP's. You just got a little lucky with that 2nd scenario having 11 blessings left. You could have easily had only a couple left due to where the Henchmen and Villain were in the decks.
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Christine S
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Party of four. Six locations... Everybody has to win two locations.
 
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Andrew Warner
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Please don't take what I'm about to say to be in any way accusatory or rude, but you also just posted what turned out to be a misunderstanding of what happens when a character chooses to not attempt to acquire a boon. Do you think there might be something wrong with how you guys are playing?

I personally don't think the game is "hard" in the sense that you should fail a lot. But when I play, it is usually exciting, often coming down to the last few turns.

I really, really dislike it when people "accuse" other people of playing wrong too quickly. So don't take what I'm saying as an accusation. It's just a question to think about. Supposedly the designers find the game challenging enough when they play, as they often come close to loosing and dying.

Anyway, I hope you figure it out and that it becomes more enjoyable for you all. I find it really enjoyable, and also exciting enough.
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Creed Buhallin
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269Hawkmoon wrote:
Supposedly the designers find the game challenging enough when they play, as they often come close to loosing and dying.

I have a hard time wrapping my brain around that.

We played through the first three adventure packs with anywhere from 4-6 players in each scenario. We had an obviously erratic play group, which meant that many of the characters were often under-developed from missing scenarios. We were frequently greedy, not closing things we should have, and so far as I know - with several of us actively reading both here and the Paizo site - we weren't doing anything wrong.

Well, I take that back - we were doing something wrong when we killed our one and only character. He should have lived.

Honestly, we never really even got close to having any deaths other than that one. We did fail scenarios from time to time, but it was always due to the timer and even that was rare. I'm pretty sure we ran the entirety of Scenario Packs 2 and 3 without a single failure.

Nor was this unique. A second playgroup with a consistent 4 got through to the end of Pack 2 without a single death or failed scenario.

The nearly universal review on this game is that it's got some good ideas, but it's trivially easy. It's something reported over and over and over again, and it's been my experience as well. I honestly don't know how to respond when the devs find their own game challenging but their players find it easy
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Gabriel Conroy
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I think this is a game you aren't really meant to 'lose' in the ususal sense. Enjoyment comes from playing and seeing ones character develop, with the threat of death present but fairly remote.

I do agree they might have put the balance too far in that direction, and it might be better if this were tunable somehow. The main issue is probably that most combat encounters are too easy. There are some suggestions for this in the Variants forum. An obvious one, if a bit dull, is just to increase the check to defeat value.
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M.C.Crispy
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achates wrote:
I think this is a game you aren't really meant to 'lose' in the ususal sense. Enjoyment comes from playing and seeing ones character develop, with the threat of death present but fairly remote.
I think that this is a useful way of viewing the game experience: it comes from an RPG sensibility where win/lose isn't the point, it's about the experience of the play and the unfolding story. In that respect I think it succeeds. Perhaps the 'issue' is that its market is BoardGamers who expect win/lose-based outcomes, even in co-op games.

Quote:
I do agree they might have put the balance too far in that direction, and it might be better if this were tunable somehow. The main issue is probably that most combat encounters are too easy. There are some suggestions for this in the Variants forum. An obvious one, if a bit dull, is just to increase the check to defeat value.
I think that building each scenario as though you are using one more character than you have seems the best option. If combat is 'so easy' I don't see a fix for that as some Banes already scale difficulty based on the Adventure Number. All you can do to make it harder is apply more pressure on resources or on the timer. Adding a Location to each Scenario applies pressure both to resources (in the form of attrition and the spending of discardable cards) and to the timer (10 more Location cards to deal with in the same number of Blessings). Of course it won't work out of the box for 6 Characters.

Personally, I find it plenty hard enough with my single-Character solo play: the dice seem to be able to detect exactly the moment to let me down! (2D10+2 needing 10? How's 6 work for ya?. GRRRR! Or need a 9 followed by a 14? How's a 19 then an 8 suit? Pretty typical of my game and with minimal/no post-roll mitigation available, the tendency to over-commit sources of additional dice can lead to early death)
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Jan Beighley, Jr.
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I've played through AP4 with Valeros, Lini and Seelah and am about to begin AP2 with Merisel, Seoni and Lem - I don't recall the first party ever being particularly close to death... maybe Seelah once, had 3 or 4 scenarios I had to replay, in part because I shut down exploring due to me feeling like one or the other of the party *might* come closer to dying than I would have liked.

I have found with the second party that several times I've been near death. Just last night if Seoni didn't win against the villain in AP1 scenario 4 that she would have been toast. Literally no cards left to draw if any damage was taken whatsoever. Merisel got handwiped (4 force damage after moving to the temple) with 7 cards left in her deck this morning.

I'm not saying this game isn't on the easier side, but sometimes I wonder how fortunate some of the people who have said it is too easy have been with their die rolls. I remember clearly against one villain (might have been Black Fang - I don't totally remember) Seoni needed (I think 12?) to win an encounter and I rolled (with blessing help) a 1 on a d12, 1 1 on a d6, a 2 on a d4 (Lem assist) and a 12 (whew) on a d12... if not for that blessing Seoni would have been pretty messed up if not dead.

Anyway, as others have said, its a game based on RPG play, which is not designed for the characters to lose. These are heroes saving the world from evil. Evil isn't supposed to win. I've invested some 35ish hours into my first party and another 10-12 with my second party... I don't want those characters to die. If the timer runs out a couple of times, I'm ok with that. The times I have pushed the clock and won with 5-10 turns left, its been with somebody close to death due to over extending. Sometimes I really think that the people that say this game is way too easy don't roll normal dice... that or I'm just doing something terribly wrong with how I'm playing.
 
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Stefan Tymoshyshyn
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I love playing PACG simply because I get a fighting chance to actually win scenarios.Compare this with LOTR card game which after the opening scenario you are constantly being beaten up by the game.When I eventually reach the last scenario of the AP6 I will quite happily start again with different characters.
To me it's like playing a computer RPG on easy then starting it with different characters on a higher setting.
If the game is too easy then why don't you either add an extra location or play with less blessings.
 
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