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Subject: Questions: AoE Damage rss

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Ulari Ancient
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Hello,

When making AoE Attacks is the result of the dice pool applied to each monster in the AoE? OR... are the dice rolled and individual dice are applied to individual monsters.

From the Rule Book (P. 20 Target Numbers and Rolling):
"Area-of Effect attacks (and difficult foes) require multiple successes... If a specific result is used for one target number it cannot be used again for another."

If I read that correctly/pessimistically the following example would occur:

The Apprentice casts Blood of Gaia and catches a 2 Grubbers (TN:5) and a Crawler (TN:4) in the AoE.
The Apprentice rolls 9 and 3 on his attack (two dice).
The Apprentice chooses to apply the 9 to one of the Grubbers killing it. He cannot also apply the 9 to the Crawler or the other Grubber since 'If a specific result is used for one target number it cannot be used again for another.'

Do I have this right?
If I do, it looks like buffing (to get more dice) will be a requirement for successful AoE attacks.

Ulari
 
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Jeremy Steward
Canada
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You are not quite correct - you need 1 success per monster types with the same TN.

So in your example you could apply the 9 to both grubbers and take them both out.

If you had 2 different minions but had the same TN you only need 1 success for both types.
 
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Wallace MacBix
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What happens if a "big" object (a captain or a lair for example) is the blast radius of multiple squares of an AoE attack.

Does (after you roll the dice and have sufficient hits)

A) It only gets hit once maximum
B) It can get hit twice if you have 2 hits (dice) to use against it
C) It gets hit multiple times but it only requires 1 hit (die) because it can "group with itself"

I'm currently playing it as A, but I don't recall anything specific like that in the rules.
 
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Jeremy Steward
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Captains/lairs are only hit once maximum. That actually is in the rules (or the hero reference?)
 
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JR Wr
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Tazzrok wrote:
Hello,

When making AoE Attacks is the result of the dice pool applied to each monster in the AoE? OR... are the dice rolled and individual dice are applied to individual monsters.

From the Rule Book (P. 20 Target Numbers and Rolling):
"Area-of Effect attacks (and difficult foes) require multiple successes... If a specific result is used for one target number it cannot be used again for another."

If I read that correctly/pessimistically the following example would occur:

The Apprentice casts Blood of Gaia and catches a 2 Grubbers (TN:5) and a Crawler (TN:4) in the AoE.
The Apprentice rolls 9 and 3 on his attack (two dice).
The Apprentice chooses to apply the 9 to one of the Grubbers killing it. He cannot also apply the 9 to the Crawler or the other Grubber since 'If a specific result is used for one target number it cannot be used again for another.'

Do I have this right?
If I do, it looks like buffing (to get more dice) will be a requirement for successful AoE attacks.

Ulari


Look at the big brown area right below that Assigning Hit Dice.
Each result is tied to a specific TN.
So in your example, you hit both grubbers OR the crawler.
Not both the crawler and the grubbers.
But if you chose the grubbers, it will hit both of the grubbers.
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JR Wr
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Deadwolf wrote:
You are not quite correct - you need 1 success per monster type (minion and captains are different "types" in this case).

So in your example you could apply the 9 to both grubbers and take them both out.


Actually it's per TN not monster type.

If you had three different monsters all with the same TN one success would hit them all.
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JR Wr
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Deadwolf wrote:
Captains/lairs are only hit once maximum. That actually is in the rules (or the hero reference?)


Even if you have multiple successes that beat it's TN?
 
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Jeremy Steward
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It is per TN not type. I thought of that after and editted.

And yes, doesn't matter how many successes you can only damage big stuff once (unless it happens to say dmg/success)
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Wallace MacBix
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Deadwolf wrote:
Captains/lairs are only hit once maximum. That actually is in the rules (or the hero reference?)


I figured (and believe you), but if you could provide a reference that would be great.

The only thing I can see about AoE is on page 20, and it doesn't mention hitting 1 big target multiple times.

As for the Heroes Reference of all the AoE skills that I noticed: Last Rites, Blood of Gaia, The Mountain Crumbles, Dark Reaver, Harvest of Blood, and Riding the Edge.

Blood of Gaia specifically states that it can only hit "A Captain or larger model inhabiting multiple squares does not suffer the attack multiple times)".

Riding the Edge also states this: "Any target not successfully killed is not moved through and the Soldier's movement ends." (kinda makes it useless vs. captains )

Every other skill does not mention this targeting limitation.

 
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Ulari Ancient
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Thanks for the quick response.
I understand the rules as you've explained them.
And pointing out the 'big brown area' example (that I missed) was very helpful

But... it seems a bit odd.

Roll a 9 and a 3 on an AoE attack.
2 Grubbers (TN:5) and 1 Crawler(TN:4) are in the AoE.
Either kill one Crawler or two Grubbers.
But if the Crawler was replaced by a monster who also had a TN:5, you could kill all three. So the Crawler's lower TN makes it harder for the hero to kill all three in one attack.

Just a different take on AoE than I have seen in other games.

Ulari
 
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Jeremy Steward
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FALCN120 wrote:
Deadwolf wrote:
Captains/lairs are only hit once maximum. That actually is in the rules (or the hero reference?)


I figured (and believe you), but if you could provide a reference that would be great.

The only thing I can see about AoE is on page 20, and it doesn't mention hitting 1 big target multiple times.

As for the Heroes Reference of all the AoE skills that I noticed: Last Rites, Blood of Gaia, The Mountain Crumbles, Dark Reaver, Harvest of Blood, and Riding the Edge.

Blood of Gaia specifically states that it can only hit "A Captain or larger model inhabiting multiple squares does not suffer the attack multiple times)".

Riding the Edge also states this: "Any target not successfully killed is not moved through and the Soldier's movement ends." (kinda makes it useless vs. captains )

Every other skill does not mention this targeting limitation.



The only reference I could find is the one in Blood of Gaia, but its a logical assumption that it applies to all of the aoe attacks.
 
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Wallace MacBix
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Deadwolf wrote:
FALCN120 wrote:
Deadwolf wrote:
Captains/lairs are only hit once maximum. That actually is in the rules (or the hero reference?)


I figured (and believe you), but if you could provide a reference that would be great.

The only thing I can see about AoE is on page 20, and it doesn't mention hitting 1 big target multiple times.

As for the Heroes Reference of all the AoE skills that I noticed: Last Rites, Blood of Gaia, The Mountain Crumbles, Dark Reaver, Harvest of Blood, and Riding the Edge.

Blood of Gaia specifically states that it can only hit "A Captain or larger model inhabiting multiple squares does not suffer the attack multiple times)".

Riding the Edge also states this: "Any target not successfully killed is not moved through and the Soldier's movement ends." (kinda makes it useless vs. captains )

Every other skill does not mention this targeting limitation.



The only reference I could find is the one in Blood of Gaia, but its a logical assumption that it applies to all of the aoe attacks.


Eh, I guess I'm used to arguing semantics in other games. Usually when a card states that it can do something not explicated stated in the base rules it means it is the exception (instead of a reminder). Meaning that all other AoEs should be able to target something more than once because Blood of Gia says it can't.

The same argument against targeting Allies. Only Blood of Gia and Glacier's Grip state that they hurt/affect other Heroes.
 
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Endevor Rovedne
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It is valid for all AOE attacks yes. Harvest of bones does not dmg the captain twice even if he touch 2 squares of the captain.
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Stan Pack
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Deadwolf wrote:
You are not quite correct - you need 1 success per monster types with the same TN.

So in your example you could apply the 9 to both grubbers and take them both out.

If you had 2 different minions but had the same TN you only need 1 success for both types.


per the 2.0 rules you need one success per each monster type and rank, not just per tn, so even though stalkers and crawlers have the same tn, since they are different rank you need 2 successes

page 9, Roll Dice Pool section, Hit Dice subsection, 3rd sentence

sorry for the necro but i found this with google and wanted to make sure future adventurers have the correct info
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Toto
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Stalker,2 crawlers and lair(insect)
passed courage test
Soldier use Harvest of bones with 2xd10 and 2xrage
rolled 4 and 7
i know i can dmg stalker and kill 2 crawlers but what about lair?
lair has diff tn but its considered realm object(myth 2.0 page 18)
i am confused about underline part:
Regardless of the number of
enemies targeted by an attack, each monster-type and
rank requires one success (determined by their monster
card) to hit all targets of that type or rank. If enemies
within the same monster-type or rank require different
TN’s to hit, each target requires a separate unique
success,unless the players can succeed at the highest
TN, which would then hit all targets of the same type
or rank.
(myth 2.0 page 9)

 
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Lokke Thundrir
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I'd like to know this as well, it's a very confusing sentence.
 
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zee ogre
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I've got the rulebook here, I'll quote it, with clarifications in square brackets [] where I deem necessary:

The 2.0 Myth Rulebook wrote:
The dice pool is rolled only once, All successes for all target numbers are derived from this one roll.

The Soldier uses Harvest of Bones on two Crawlers and one captain, a Stalker. The target number for the [Crawler] minions is TN4. The target number for the Stalker is TN5. The Solder rolls 4d10. Assuming the Soldier passes the Courage test required when fighting Stalkers [because failing the Courage test would prevent the AoE attack that includes the Stalker from happening], he needs one die result of 4 or more[to kill both Crawlers], and one die result of 5 or more[to hit the Stalker] to kill both Crawlers and hit the Stalker.

[Three pictures with die results for examples]

In the first example, he rolls a 2, 4, 5, and 6. With the 4, he can kill both Crawlers. With the 5, he can hit the stalker. These die results are considered used for these TNs [we take this to mean that if another monster type had TN4 in this attack, he'd need another 4 or better result, as the 4 was already "used" on the Crawlers].

In the second example, he rolls 1, 2, 3, and 4. With the 4, he can kill both Crawlers. He doesn't have a success equal to or higher than the TN5 needed to hit the Stalker.

In the third example, he rolls 1, 2, 3, and 6. With the 6, he may choose to kill either the two Crawlers, or hit the Stalker; but not both.



At my table, what we do to clear things up is this: once the die are cast and the roll is acknowledged (no cocked dice, etc), take the die (or dice, in the case of x2 or x3 die requirements) being used to hit a monster type and place it on or next to the card for the monster type you're hitting. This removes any ambiguity about monster types vs TNs - you need to have enough dice to successfully hit for each card. The key words that caused us to use this method are in the first example - "These die results are considered used for these TNs".

The 1.0 unofficial rules phrased it like this:
Myth Unofficial Manual V1.0 wrote:

Area attacks use these rules when hitting multiple targets.
• Roll All Hit Dice Together: Roll the entire attack at once.
• One Success Hits All Monsters of the Same Name: If a hit die
meets or exceeds a target's TN, then that hit die hits every
monster of the same class and type, such as all grubber
minions or all crawler captains.
• One Hit Die Success Per Monster Name: Each hit die can only
hit one monster type, so the attack must roll multiple hit dice to
hit different targets. Only one hit die can be used for each
monster type.
• Hero Chooses Target for Each Die: If a hit die beats the TN of
different targets, then the hero decides which hit dice are used
to hit which monsters.


I find the above to be much less ambiguous and the rules seem to work well at our table.
 
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Tim Franklin
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I think the next level of confusion comes when you have some monsters in a group buffed or de-buffed because of how the range of an effect falls.

Say you're facing the same 2 Crawlers (TN4) and 1 Stalker (TN5), but now one of those Crawlers has been buffed to have a TN of 5.

Same attack and dice rolls:

In the first example, he rolls a 2, 4, 5, and 6. This time, he needs to use the 5 to kill both Crawlers. He doesn't have to use the 4 and the 5, even though they have different TNs, because they're the same "name" (type and rank). The 6 hits the Stalker; the 2 and the 4 are left over.

In the second example, he rolls 1, 2, 3, and 4. With the 4, he can kill only the un-buffed Crawler. He doesn't have a success equal to or higher than the TN5 needed to hit the Stalker or the buffed Crawler.

In the third example, he rolls 1, 2, 3, and 6. With the 6, he may choose to kill either the two Crawlers, or hit the Stalker; but not both.

To add a fourth example, he rolls 1, 2, 4, 5. He can use the 5 to kill both Crawlers, in which case the remaining 4 is not enough to hit the Stalker. Or he can use the 5 to hit the Stalker, in which case the 4 is only good enough to kill the un-buffed Crawler. The buffed TN5 Crawler survives in the latter case.

This doesn't help with the lairs, they're not the same type and rank as any of the monsters, so you can't share a die to hit them. (The underlined quote really ought to say "type *and* rank".)
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