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Nathan Dennis
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This is probably a really dumb question .. but here it goes .

Can the archer use an arrow that is in one of the actions spaces?

.. it seems like you can, but the reason for my question is due to the wording in the narrative of the DLC-Setup/Narrative .. where the player playing the archer loads two arrows in actions spaces, but then states she can't benefit from another spell because her arrows aren't loaded into the quiver .. leading me to think maybe they aren't usable .. which I find odd because when I'm starting out I don't even have a quiver .. just a bow because I'm allowed to only pick 1 Brown item

Thx for your help!
 
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Jeremy Steward
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Attacks that use ammo, use ammo from the quiver. So no, you cannot use an arrow that is in an action space. The one exception is Wayfarer's Ruse which specifically allows you to do so.

It is only the first Act of the first story quest that you start with only 1 brown and a random green item. In most scenarios you start with all of your brown equipment (which the quiver is a part of.)
 
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Nathan Dennis
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wow that really makes the archer almost useless ... I start with a bow, but now quiver??

I guess I can just house rule and start with two brown items for the archer.
 
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Nathan Dennis
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Ok maybe I read that wrong ... Do I get all the starting gear listed for each hero?
 
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Jeremy Steward
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You start with all brown items. Where did the starting with only 1 come from?
 
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Nathan Dennis
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Deadwolf wrote:
You start with all brown items. Where did the starting with only 1 come from?


I'm not sure .. thought I read it somewhere .. maybe I imagined it
 
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Donny Behne
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revvbard wrote:
Ok maybe I read that wrong ... Do I get all the starting gear listed for each hero?


If you do any free play or slaughterfield you start with all starting items for your class plus adventurer's gear. When you start with the first quest, your entire party is allowed one green item draw and one piece of starting gear each. The starting gear doesn't have to belong to that class and trading is a free action.

A part of four draws four green cards - now bow or quiver. The soldier gets a sword, the brigand gets a weapon and the acolyte gets a hammer and prayer book. Give the soldier his starting shield, the brigand a starting weapon and then the archer gets his starting bow. The acolyte can take one starting weapon so he takes the quiver and passes it to the archer.

Problem solved.
 
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Donny Behne
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Deadwolf wrote:
You start with all brown items. Where did the starting with only 1 come from?


He means the quest.
 
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Wallace MacBix
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The archer can use some cards without ammo, but it isn't many. I think it's any card that says ammo is "(Optional)". There's a full list of those cards, I think in the unofficial FaQ (or maybe another thread).



kelann08 wrote:
revvbard wrote:
Ok maybe I read that wrong ... Do I get all the starting gear listed for each hero?


If you do any free play or slaughterfield you start with all starting items for your class plus adventurer's gear. When you start with the first quest, your entire party is allowed one green item draw and one piece of starting gear each. The starting gear doesn't have to belong to that class and trading is a free action.

A part of four draws four green cards - now bow or quiver. The soldier gets a sword, the brigand gets a weapon and the acolyte gets a hammer and prayer book. Give the soldier his starting shield, the brigand a starting weapon and then the archer gets his starting bow. The acolyte can take one starting weapon so he takes the quiver and passes it to the archer.

Problem solved.



Just a quick question about your solution (which seems to be the only way for the archer to be "useful"). Based on the wording it seems that all of the items need to be taken simultaneously. So if a ranger wants to have both brown starting items he can promise his random green item to someone else. You make it seem like you drew green items first, then choose brown items to complement them.
 
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Jeremy Steward
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FALCN120 wrote:

The archer can use some cards without ammo, but it isn't many. I think it's any card that says ammo is "(Optional)". There's a full list of those cards, I think in the unofficial FaQ (or maybe another thread).



kelann08 wrote:
revvbard wrote:
Ok maybe I read that wrong ... Do I get all the starting gear listed for each hero?


If you do any free play or slaughterfield you start with all starting items for your class plus adventurer's gear. When you start with the first quest, your entire party is allowed one green item draw and one piece of starting gear each. The starting gear doesn't have to belong to that class and trading is a free action.

A part of four draws four green cards - now bow or quiver. The soldier gets a sword, the brigand gets a weapon and the acolyte gets a hammer and prayer book. Give the soldier his starting shield, the brigand a starting weapon and then the archer gets his starting bow. The acolyte can take one starting weapon so he takes the quiver and passes it to the archer.

Problem solved.



Just a quick question about your solution (which seems to be the only way for the archer to be "useful"). Based on the wording it seems that all of the items need to be taken simultaneously. So if a ranger wants to have both brown starting items he can promise his random green item to someone else. You make it seem like you drew green items first, then choose brown items to complement them.


You should do it separately, its the only way to prevent an extremely unfun game for the archer.

But this is only the case for that specific story quest.

All other cases, you start with all of your starting gear as normal.
 
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Michael Cozzolino
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After reading over the cards for the archer a few times I think you should be able to play them from the action board for a few reasons.

1. Thematically it makes no sense. Lets say for instance the card indicates you found an arrow on a dead grubber. Would you really need to place it in your quiver before you could pull it back out and use it? It just doesn't make sense thematically.

2. Balance - No other character requires 2 items to use their actions. Without a quiver the archer is weak enough even if she can use arrows from the action board. The one thing i think you should consider is only being able to play from the quiver or the action board for each attack. That way you cant have 5 in the quiver and play 2 to your board for a possibility of 7 damage. Just a thought if this for some reason makes the archer too powerful, but i dont think it will.

3. The interrupt card. The interrupt card is the only card that says you can play from the quiver or the action board. I think this is misleading. The text on the cards makes you think 'oh well this one lets me play from my action board so the others dont'. I dont think this is the case. I believe the card says this so you know you can only play an arrow from you quiver or action board, but not from your hand because this is the DC and you can only play interrupt cards. So if you used up all your arrows in the quiver and on the board, and wanted to play the interrupt, had an arrow in hand, and an action space left; you would not be able to because you cant play the arrow in the DC. With an action and reaction you can play from all(quiver, action board, or from your hand if you have an action space).

The only thing you need to do differently to play like this is flip over arrow cards on your board if you use them, that way you dont add them to the quiver after you used it.
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Jeremy Steward
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vazzucious wrote:
After reading over the cards for the archer a few times I think you should be able to play them from the action board for a few reasons.

1. Thematically it makes no sense. Lets say for instance the card indicates you found an arrow on a dead grubber. Would you really need to place it in your quiver before you could pull it back out and use it? It just doesn't make sense thematically.

2. Balance - No other character requires 2 items to use their actions. Without a quiver the archer is weak enough even if she can use arrows from the action board. The one thing i think you should consider is only being able to play from the quiver or the action board for each attack. That way you cant have 5 in the quiver and play 2 to your board for a possibility of 7 damage. Just a thought if this for some reason makes the archer too powerful, but i dont think it will.

3. The interrupt card. The interrupt card is the only card that says you can play from the quiver or the action board. I think this is misleading. The text on the cards makes you think 'oh well this one lets me play from my action board so the others dont'. I dont think this is the case. I believe the card says this so you know you can only play an arrow from you quiver or action board, but not from your hand because this is the DC and you can only play interrupt cards. So if you used up all your arrows in the quiver and on the board, and wanted to play the interrupt, had an arrow in hand, and an action space left; you would not be able to because you cant play the arrow in the DC. With an action and reaction you can play from all(quiver, action board, or from your hand if you have an action space).

The only thing you need to do differently to play like this is flip over arrow cards on your board if you use them, that way you dont add them to the quiver after you used it.


While I generally agree with you, the green quiver basically solves the problem you describe. (It allows you to play an arrow directly to your quiver once per cycle)

The archer is weaker than other dpsers at the start and I think the quiver balances him out and gives him the niche of low threat dps as well as lair sniper.

Ive toyed with the idea of starting the archer with the green quiver but not sure.
 
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Endevor Rovedne
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I am starting the Archer with 4 cards in hand and an arrow directly in the quiver, it helps.
 
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Jeremy Steward
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Oh yah, Im doing that for sure as well. Just so the archer isnt COMPLETELY useless on the first turn of an act.
 
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Michael Cozzolino
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Deadwolf wrote:
vazzucious wrote:
After reading over the cards for the archer a few times I think you should be able to play them from the action board for a few reasons.

1. Thematically it makes no sense. Lets say for instance the card indicates you found an arrow on a dead grubber. Would you really need to place it in your quiver before you could pull it back out and use it? It just doesn't make sense thematically.

2. Balance - No other character requires 2 items to use their actions. Without a quiver the archer is weak enough even if she can use arrows from the action board. The one thing i think you should consider is only being able to play from the quiver or the action board for each attack. That way you cant have 5 in the quiver and play 2 to your board for a possibility of 7 damage. Just a thought if this for some reason makes the archer too powerful, but i dont think it will.

3. The interrupt card. The interrupt card is the only card that says you can play from the quiver or the action board. I think this is misleading. The text on the cards makes you think 'oh well this one lets me play from my action board so the others dont'. I dont think this is the case. I believe the card says this so you know you can only play an arrow from you quiver or action board, but not from your hand because this is the DC and you can only play interrupt cards. So if you used up all your arrows in the quiver and on the board, and wanted to play the interrupt, had an arrow in hand, and an action space left; you would not be able to because you cant play the arrow in the DC. With an action and reaction you can play from all(quiver, action board, or from your hand if you have an action space).

The only thing you need to do differently to play like this is flip over arrow cards on your board if you use them, that way you dont add them to the quiver after you used it.


While I generally agree with you, the green quiver basically solves the problem you describe. (It allows you to play an arrow directly to your quiver once per cycle)

The archer is weaker than other dpsers at the start and I think the quiver balances him out and gives him the niche of low threat dps as well as lair sniper.

Ive toyed with the idea of starting the archer with the green quiver but not sure.

Thats not exactly the same. That allows you to play an arrow without using the action slot. Which is a big boost as well. Not only would you not have to wait a turn(if you have to shoot from the quiver) but you can play up to 5 cards.
The issue isnt having to wait a turn to use what goes to your quiver, it biggest issue is starting the story with an archer and not having both items you require. This makes the quiver a bonus and not a requirement to play.
 
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Michael Cozzolino
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Endevor wrote:
I am starting the Archer with 4 cards in hand and an arrow directly in the quiver, it helps.

I dont see this being much of an issue really. There are a lot of arrows in the deck so should have one by your next turn. There are times with other heroes where they need to move and have no movement and a handful of melee attacks they cant use. If you use them when they are played to the action slot then that's one less hero cycle you have to wait to use it.
 
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Jeremy Steward
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Played as normal, the archer cannot play any of its main attacks on the first turn. There is also a 28% chance to not draw an arrow in your first hand which means your 2nd turn is shot too.
 
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Wallace MacBix
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vazzucious wrote:
Deadwolf wrote:
vazzucious wrote:
After reading over the cards for the archer a few times I think you should be able to play them from the action board for a few reasons.

1. Thematically it makes no sense. Lets say for instance the card indicates you found an arrow on a dead grubber. Would you really need to place it in your quiver before you could pull it back out and use it? It just doesn't make sense thematically.

2. Balance - No other character requires 2 items to use their actions. Without a quiver the archer is weak enough even if she can use arrows from the action board. The one thing i think you should consider is only being able to play from the quiver or the action board for each attack. That way you cant have 5 in the quiver and play 2 to your board for a possibility of 7 damage. Just a thought if this for some reason makes the archer too powerful, but i dont think it will.

3. The interrupt card. The interrupt card is the only card that says you can play from the quiver or the action board. I think this is misleading. The text on the cards makes you think 'oh well this one lets me play from my action board so the others dont'. I dont think this is the case. I believe the card says this so you know you can only play an arrow from you quiver or action board, but not from your hand because this is the DC and you can only play interrupt cards. So if you used up all your arrows in the quiver and on the board, and wanted to play the interrupt, had an arrow in hand, and an action space left; you would not be able to because you cant play the arrow in the DC. With an action and reaction you can play from all(quiver, action board, or from your hand if you have an action space).

The only thing you need to do differently to play like this is flip over arrow cards on your board if you use them, that way you dont add them to the quiver after you used it.


While I generally agree with you, the green quiver basically solves the problem you describe. (It allows you to play an arrow directly to your quiver once per cycle)

The archer is weaker than other dpsers at the start and I think the quiver balances him out and gives him the niche of low threat dps as well as lair sniper.

Ive toyed with the idea of starting the archer with the green quiver but not sure.

Thats not exactly the same. That allows you to play an arrow without using the action slot. Which is a big boost as well. Not only would you not have to wait a turn(if you have to shoot from the quiver) but you can play up to 5 cards.
The issue isnt having to wait a turn to use what goes to your quiver, it biggest issue is starting the story with an archer and not having both items you require. This makes the quiver a bonus and not a requirement to play.


I believe there is only 1 quest where you don't start with all 3 brown items. I'm pretty sure it is intended to make it hard for the Archer there.

I've seen a couple of home brew work arounds:

1) Draw random green items first, then choose brown items.
2) Have the Archer "trade" his random green item to someone else for them to grab him the other brown item he needs.
3) Some other options are above

Lastly, have a shafted Archer who can only play 9 (Now You See Me x2, Sprint x2, Hustle, Find Weakness, and Circumvent, Tumble, and To The Knee in melee range with just the base 1d10 [+any dice from a melee weapon if he has one]) of his cards until he can find the other item he needs. :/
 
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Michael Cozzolino
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Deadwolf wrote:
Played as normal, the archer cannot play any of its main attacks on the first turn. There is also a 28% chance to not draw an arrow in your first hand which means your 2nd turn is shot too.

Thats why i think you should play them from the action slot too. That removes the delay on arrows.
 
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Michael Cozzolino
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FALCN120 wrote:
vazzucious wrote:
Deadwolf wrote:
vazzucious wrote:
After reading over the cards for the archer a few times I think you should be able to play them from the action board for a few reasons.

1. Thematically it makes no sense. Lets say for instance the card indicates you found an arrow on a dead grubber. Would you really need to place it in your quiver before you could pull it back out and use it? It just doesn't make sense thematically.

2. Balance - No other character requires 2 items to use their actions. Without a quiver the archer is weak enough even if she can use arrows from the action board. The one thing i think you should consider is only being able to play from the quiver or the action board for each attack. That way you cant have 5 in the quiver and play 2 to your board for a possibility of 7 damage. Just a thought if this for some reason makes the archer too powerful, but i dont think it will.

3. The interrupt card. The interrupt card is the only card that says you can play from the quiver or the action board. I think this is misleading. The text on the cards makes you think 'oh well this one lets me play from my action board so the others dont'. I dont think this is the case. I believe the card says this so you know you can only play an arrow from you quiver or action board, but not from your hand because this is the DC and you can only play interrupt cards. So if you used up all your arrows in the quiver and on the board, and wanted to play the interrupt, had an arrow in hand, and an action space left; you would not be able to because you cant play the arrow in the DC. With an action and reaction you can play from all(quiver, action board, or from your hand if you have an action space).

The only thing you need to do differently to play like this is flip over arrow cards on your board if you use them, that way you dont add them to the quiver after you used it.


While I generally agree with you, the green quiver basically solves the problem you describe. (It allows you to play an arrow directly to your quiver once per cycle)

The archer is weaker than other dpsers at the start and I think the quiver balances him out and gives him the niche of low threat dps as well as lair sniper.

Ive toyed with the idea of starting the archer with the green quiver but not sure.

Thats not exactly the same. That allows you to play an arrow without using the action slot. Which is a big boost as well. Not only would you not have to wait a turn(if you have to shoot from the quiver) but you can play up to 5 cards.
The issue isnt having to wait a turn to use what goes to your quiver, it biggest issue is starting the story with an archer and not having both items you require. This makes the quiver a bonus and not a requirement to play.


I believe there is only 1 quest where you don't start with all 3 brown items. I'm pretty sure it is intended to make it hard for the Archer there.

I've seen a couple of home brew work arounds:

1) Draw random green items first, then choose brown items.
2) Have the Archer "trade" his random green item to someone else for them to grab him the other brown item he needs.
3) Some other options are above

Lastly, have a shafted Archer who can only play 9 (Now You See Me x2, Sprint x2, Hustle, Find Weakness, and Circumvent, Tumble, and To The Knee in melee range with just the base 1d10 [+any dice from a melee weapon if he has one]) of his cards until he can find the other item he needs. :/

None of that is needed if you play arrows from the action slot as well.
Lets say for that quest you draw 2 armor items. Now you have to decide. Do i give the archer 2 items so they can play but the other character cant, or do i give both an item and the archer cant play.
It just seems like a dumb rule because half the time when i play an arrow and have one in my quiver, i use the one on the board so i dont have to discard from the quiver and add the one that was on the board.

Playing from the quiver greatly effects the game if you dont have it, while playing from the action slot minimally changes the game if you do have a quiver. Once you have an arrow or 2 loaded the rule basically negates itself.
 
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Jarad Bond
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Deadwolf wrote:
Played as normal, the archer cannot play any of its main attacks on the first turn. There is also a 28% chance to not draw an arrow in your first hand which means your 2nd turn is shot too.


You can use almost any of the archer's attacks in melee without an arrow if need be (1D10). Just keep your best card and move into the right position the first couple turns. It's part of the fun.

It is also the very first turn of a 5 hour play session. We mostly just close some distance and move on to the refresh phase anyway on the first turn.

Or, do like Endevor suggested and put an arrow in your quiver to start. *shrug*

vazzucious wrote:
None of that is needed if you play arrows from the action slot as well.
Lets say for that quest you draw 2 armor items. Now you have to decide. Do i give the archer 2 items so they can play but the other character cant, or do i give both an item and the archer cant play.
It just seems like a dumb rule because half the time when i play an arrow and have one in my quiver, i use the one on the board so i dont have to discard from the quiver and add the one that was on the board.


Everyone gets to draw 1 green item. I'm pretty sure it's impossible for everyone to not draw a weapon. Also, nobody needs any equipment to use any card (except a couple "Requires: Ammo" cards). Everyone else can always use abilities with base 1D10. Does the acolyte need ANY equipment? No. Prioritize. Have the Acolyte give up their brown equipment and give it to the Archer. Or maybe you drew a longsword, so the fighter can give up her brown equipment. This quest is supposed to be mildly challenging - not mop everything up on turn 1.

I realize everyone plays differently. Some like the godly power of just wiping the board clean. So don't play this quest. Or do another act till you have some gold and serendipity and summon the merchant and buy tons of equipment at the beginning (gold and serendipity carry over).
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Michael Cozzolino
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logris wrote:
Deadwolf wrote:
Played as normal, the archer cannot play any of its main attacks on the first turn. There is also a 28% chance to not draw an arrow in your first hand which means your 2nd turn is shot too.


You can use almost any of the archer's attacks in melee without an arrow if need be (1D10). Just keep your best card and move into the right position the first couple turns. It's part of the fun.

It is also the very first turn of a 5 hour play session. We mostly just close some distance and move on to the refresh phase anyway on the first turn.

Or, do like Endevor suggested and put an arrow in your quiver to start. *shrug*

vazzucious wrote:
None of that is needed if you play arrows from the action slot as well.
Lets say for that quest you draw 2 armor items. Now you have to decide. Do i give the archer 2 items so they can play but the other character cant, or do i give both an item and the archer cant play.
It just seems like a dumb rule because half the time when i play an arrow and have one in my quiver, i use the one on the board so i dont have to discard from the quiver and add the one that was on the board.


Everyone gets to draw 1 green item. I'm pretty sure it's impossible for everyone to not draw a weapon. Also, nobody needs any equipment to use any card (except a couple "Requires: Ammo" cards). Everyone else can always use abilities with base 1D10. Does the acolyte need ANY equipment? No. Prioritize. Have the Acolyte give up their brown equipment and give it to the Archer. Or maybe you drew a longsword, so the fighter can give up her brown equipment. This quest is supposed to be mildly challenging - not mop everything up on turn 1.

I realize everyone plays differently. Some like the godly power of just wiping the board clean. So don't play this quest. Or do another act till you have some gold and serendipity and summon the merchant and buy tons of equipment at the beginning (gold and serendipity carry over).

Playing with 2 it is very possible to not draw a weapon, or one that you can use.
True i didnt think of punching. All should be able to do that except for the archer. I just went thru the archer deck. She has only 3 cards that are optional ammo attacks, 2 interupts that do no damage, and one that does damage. I dont think you can play her as a melee character and if i had to i would just grab the soldier instead.

I actually have not played this scenario yet. I have been doing free play to familiarize myself with the rules, before deciding who to play the story with. Ill run through it with the archer(requiring quiver) and acolyte, see how it goes.
 
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Jarad Bond
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Yeah, I see your point with two armor cards.

That would make for more challenge than even I would probably want. If that happened in my game, I'd probably mulligan, or redraw the second item until something came up. Depends on the mood the gorup was in.

Even the archer can punch for many of their abilities. It is really cruddy, but it is possible. Unless it states "Required: Arrow", you just have to use your fist with range 1.
 
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Jonathan Patterson
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vazzucious wrote:

Playing with 2 it is very possible to not draw a weapon, or one that you can use.
True i didnt think of punching. All should be able to do that except for the archer.


Actually, even the Archer can "punch." Any cards that list "Optional-Ammo" can be used in melee. This was a known and intended challenge for Archers.
 
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Michael Cozzolino
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Fade2Gray wrote:
vazzucious wrote:

Playing with 2 it is very possible to not draw a weapon, or one that you can use.
True i didnt think of punching. All should be able to do that except for the archer.


Actually, even the Archer can "punch." Any cards that list "Optional-Ammo" can be used in melee. This was a known and intended challenge for Archers.

You technically can but you should never have to use that as your main offense. All of this is fixed if you play arrows from your board.
I just went thru the archer deck. She has only 3 cards that are optional ammo attacks, 2 interupts that do no damage, and one that does damage. I dont think you can play her as a melee character and if i had to i would just grab the soldier instead.
 
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