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Subject: Preparing to Play: Questions rss

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Kelly N.
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I plan to play this for the first time Monday night. I have a couple of questions based on reading the rules and various flow charts, etc.

1.) What is the game play (strategical) difference between a supporting character located on the support section of his reference card and a supporting character that has been moved to a supporting space on the board?

2.) Story action - Even though the rulebook and some reference docs here say that you MAY shift the story track or manipulate it after drawing a Resource card......it seems to me that it should be something you MUST do. It seems to me that the "Story" action is not much of a "story" action if the story track operation is optional. Thoughts?

Please monitor or subscribe to this thread as I will likely have more questions before Monday.

Thanks.
 
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Günter Immeyer
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Hello Kelly,

Regarding question no. 1: As far as I can recall, the only real difference between the two positions is that some supporting abilities cannot be carried out from the reference card position. While all supporting actions called "Support (Action)" can be performed from either position, there are several special actions named "Support (Combat)" and "Support (Troubleshooting" which are special and require your hero to actually be on the game board (and match the respective area).

As for question no. 2, that has been clarified in the official FAQ:

FAQ wrote:
Q: If I take a Story action and draw a Resource card, must I then either advance or manipulate the Story track?
A: No. Advancing or manipulating the Story track is an optional part of the Story action.
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Günter Immeyer
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Darn, just remembered one other important detail with the different supporting positions... shake

It regards the "Movement" action:

When moving a ready hero to a district, you may (as an additional free movement) take along a supporting hero to one of the support spaces on the board containing the district you're moving the ready hero to. However, this free movement is only possible for a supporting hero that was on his reference card position - it is not possible to take along a supporting hero that was already on the game board (in some other supporting area).
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Kelly N.
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Miraculix wrote:
As for question no. 2, that has been clarified in the official FAQ:

FAQ wrote:
Q: If I take a Story action and draw a Resource card, must I then either advance or manipulate the Story track?
A: No. Advancing or manipulating the Story track is an optional part of the Story action.


Thanks for the answers. That helped a lot. As for #2, I guess I will play it per FAQ and not try to re-invent the wheel by making it a "must".

 
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Kelly N.
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Also, I've stolen the quote below from another thread. I too had a question as to how the Master Plan fleshed out in game over the course of game rounds. This seems to explain it...

Smoo wrote:
The masterplan cards come into play on lightning bolt/mastermind headlines (which is any headline for the archnemesis). When the hero team challenges one of those headlines, the player controlling the nemesis can decide to get the nemesis involved. If he does this, the heroes have to battle the nemesis after battling the regular villain. If the nemesis wins this fight then they can put one of the masterplans in play. The first time it happens, you put the prologue card in play. The second time, you put the development in play. And then if it happens a third time, you put the conclusion in play. So the only way to get that -5 victory point card in play is to have the nemesis defeat the heroes three times in mastermind headlines.

Hope that made sense.
 
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Dangerous Partners
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Miraculix wrote:
Darn, just remembered one other important detail with the different supporting positions... shake

It regards the "Movement" action:

When moving a ready hero to a district, you may (as an additional free movement) take along a supporting hero to one of the support spaces on the board containing the district you're moving the ready hero to. However, this free movement is only possible for a supporting hero that was on his reference card position - it is not possible to take along a supporting hero that was already on the game board (in some other supporting area).

Been awhile since I played but don't you get plot points for Heroes back at base, plus they have to be at base to heal ?
Please no mocking if I am totally mis-remembering blush.
 
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Günter Immeyer
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BeerAndBoard wrote:
Been awhile since I played but don't you get plot points for Heroes back at base, plus they have to be at base to heal ?

For plot points it makes no difference if a hero is in a supporting space on the board or on the reference card - during the planning phase, you will get 1 plot point in either case (when you collect the hero from either a supporting area on the board or from the supporting area of a hero reference card).

Regarding healing: Yes, they have to be "at base" to heal (in the "Recovery" position in the middle of the reference card, to be exact), but a hero will automatically be moved to that position when he/she becomes wounded.
 
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Günter Immeyer
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Kelly wrote:
...how the Master Plan fleshes out in game over the course of game rounds - This seems to explain it...

Smoo wrote:
The masterplan cards come into play on lightning bolt/mastermind headlines (which is any headline for the archnemesis). When the hero team challenges one of those headlines, the player controlling the nemesis can decide to get the nemesis involved. If he does this, the heroes have to battle the nemesis after battling the regular villain. If the nemesis wins this fight then they can put one of the masterplans in play. The first time it happens, you put the prologue card in play. The second time, you put the development in play. And then if it happens a third time, you put the conclusion in play. So the only way to get that -5 victory point card in play is to have the nemesis defeat the heroes three times in mastermind headlines.

Yup, that basically explains it. Three additional details/corrections, though:

1) The heroes never have to to fight the nemesis after having dealt with their headline - the fight can simply be declined (in which case the nemesis gets his next masterplan stage for free). Still, this can be a useful option for the hero player in certain situations.

2) In case the heroes win the additional challenge vs. their nemesis, they get one of their Team Power Up-cards into play (and in some scenarios, you can win the game by simply collecting all 3 of them!).

3) If the nemesis player is defeated by the heroes, he may not attempt to complete his masterplan again during that same game round (he may try to continue his evil quest in the next round, though!).
 
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Rauli Kettunen
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Personally, I ignore the FAQ ruling on Story Action, it makes it the track movement all but non-existant and even more unimportant that RAW. The other FAQ ruling ignored is the IW one regarding boost dice.
 
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Kelly N.
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Thanks again Gunter - that solidifies my understanding of the Master Plan. Pretty poorly explained in the rules for sure.

Rauli - glad to hear that. I feel that the FAQ clarification would steal a lot of fun from the story track's purpose. I think I will go ahead and have us make a story track draw or manipulate each time. It sure seemed to me that the "spirit" of the design would have wanted you to work the story track each time.
 
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Rauli Kettunen
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Yep, the FAQ removes all tension from getting Resource cards. You want one, take a Story Action and don't do anything about the track.

RAW, if there are no Story cards for your team on the track (since you can only manipulate it by putting one for your team to the first to drop spot) and one belonging to your opponent is next to drop off, taking a Story Action gives you the Resource card but your opponent gets 1VP. So you really have to weigh the pros and cons, do you really need a Res card now, because your opponent will probably take a SA to get the card for themselves and could mean you don't give him a VP for taking a Res card. And because any card that drops off during Phase 1 isn't gained by the player to whose team it belongs, they probably will take a SA to avoid having the card drop off without getting the VP and the card for possing Team Power-Ups.

FAQ on Invisible Woman makes her basically nerf dice-boosting, since per FAQ hit/+ results are completely cancelled, while RAW, you'd get to reroll them and she'd only work against hit/+ results on the reroll (basically 1/36 shot RAW, 1/6 against villains without dice-boosting, which is almost all the villains with RAW Doom as he can't Scheme for dice-boosting until he gets Master Plan #2 into play).
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Kelly N.
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Ok....first game down, with many more to come. We had a great time! It was a 2 player game. My son played Marvel Knights and I played the Avengers. It came right down to the end, with me winning 16vp to 15vp.

Of all things, the final battle was Hulk vs. Abomination with Hulk being one hit away from being KO'ed! My son had brought out Red Skull during that last round, but once I solved the headline...it was over. Red Skull was too late.

Just for fun, we played out the battle with Hulk vs. Red Skull(+ his henchmen). I had Thor supporting who couldn't help with combat, and Capt. America supporting but couldn't help because I had no more Resource cards to discard to use his command ability. Hulk went down since he already had 2 wounds. What a blast!

Thanks to you guys and all the resources here, our first game was a great success.
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Günter Immeyer
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Good job! Glad you enjoyed this great game, too.

What I like most about Marvel Heroes is that it is probably the only complex, fun, diverse and strategically challenging game with a foreseeable and manageable time requirement. You'll usually play 3-5 intriguing game rounds and then it's over.

Other interesting/comparable games like "Axis & Allies", "World of Warcraft: The Boardgame", "Descent" and the like are also fun to play and of an equally good quality, but they play substantially longer (anywhere from 4 hours to forever). And since not all gamers are willing to play such marathon games, these rarely hit the table (at least that's my experience).

So in that respect, I think "Marvel Heroes" is really a great game that can be played in around 2 hours (Rauli will of course tell you that even 60 minute games are not uncommon... laugh).

Marvel Heroes is also a heavily underrated game here at BGG, ranked only at around 1,100 (in my opinion, it should at least be in the top 100!) - but I think that's mostly due to the poorly organized rules, which most players are just not willing to bite through...
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Rauli Kettunen
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Miraculix wrote:
So in that respect, I think "Marvel Heroes" is really a great game that can be played in around 2 hours (Rauli will of course tell you that even 60 minute games are not uncommon... laugh).


Actually, they are uncommon, though not in the way you meant, 60 minutes is uncommonly long for a game of MH . Most Rounds you'll have one Action Round (2, 3 or 4 most often) which takes the longest, that being the one AR you Troubleshoot. But if the threat roll goes awry or you have just great reduction (Jean Grey + Storm in Support) and don't even get a villain, that AR is over in under 30 secs.
 
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