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Subject: Is this the most convoluted hardest CCG ever invented? rss

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Jason
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Seriously...to this day I still cannot grasp how to play this game. The living rulebook has surpassed 150 pages now.
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Flying Arrow
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No. There are harder ones.
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Mike Wene
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No. There are more convoluted ones.

The Magic: The Gathering rules are now in excess of 200 pages.
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Chris Brown
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There is no reason to have two A's at the beginning of aardvark. I simply won't do it.
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I find that you can eliminate whole chunks of the rules by just not playing with certain cards. For example, who actually uses politics anyways?
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Jason
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Yeah thats true.
 
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fightcitymayor
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Mike Wene wrote:
No. There are more convoluted ones.

The Magic: The Gathering rules are now in excess of 200 pages.
That is misleading, as those are the "comprehensive rules" designed for judges and tournament environments, where someone feels like examining the most minute detail of the letter of the law. I can teach someone how to play Magic in 10 minutes.

Decipher was indeed adept at churning out games with that "wall of text" effect that just makes your eyes glaze over. It seems CCG/LCG design has moved on from this, thankfully.

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Chris Brown
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There is no reason to have two A's at the beginning of aardvark. I simply won't do it.
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Since there is no competitive scene for this game anymore, I tend to build themed decks against each other. Really gives me the ability to center something around one concept. If that concept has a few extra rules, so be it. If a piece doesn't add to the theme I don't bother with it. For example, I just don't play with defensive shields anymore.
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Martin Diehl
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For those of us who started off at the beginning, it isn't that hard since we got everything over time. Try to see if you can find a Premier rulebook somewhere. That should be pretty simple to figure out, and just add more stuff once you get the basics down.
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Travis Merkle
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Star Wars CCG may be one of the hardest rule sets for CCGs when taken entirely (And I haven't keep up with the PC's virtual sets), just like Legacy / Modern MTG include a lot of rules and corner cases (and cards!)

But the base rule set and any given expansion set (ex Hoth with shields, Dagobah with sectors and Jedi Tests) are not any more difficult than a given Standard MTG format IMO. Most of the extra rules are baggage that only need reviewed in the rare event that they come into play.

I think the rules complexity of SWCCG is actually dwarfed by the board complexity. Many more "permanents" affect the board and are played throughout a game than other CCGs, leading to a convoluted board state for inexperienced players.

However, the rules baggage and board complexity create a rewarding and thematic experience!
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David Bate
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I don't recall either of the original SWCCG or STCCG rulebooks being overly big, or complex. But things do tend to grow with time and expansions.

The living rulebook is too darned off putting when I came back to the game, but it is a fine reference to work out those rules questions that come up from time to time. I tracked down one of the older rulebooks and started playing from Premiere and other earlier expansion. I might as well go easy on myself. whistle

The SWCCG Special Edition starters still had a small (page count) rule book which seems fairly straight forward. But it also contain a 144+ page glossary paperback full of ruling and term explanations.

If I remember ME:TW CCG weighed in with a 72 page rulebook, that had basic and advanced ways to play using different 'location' and region travel. But it did have fairly good examples thrown in that padded out the rule book. Additional expansion increased this with 16 extra rules pages each. I didn't find it overly hard either, but perhaps that was 'cause I was younger then. cry

Dredd TCG was another massive 72 pages of rules.

I found Babylon 5 CCG the hardest to get my head round but once I had it was fine.

Off late game rules just seem too complex these days with advancing age and failing grey cells.

I just hate rulebooks written by someone who knows the game inside out and those important part remain fixed in the writer's head, they seem too obvious to him to bother written them into the rules. Sadly those bits that don't quite make it into the rule book are often those bits that us newbies really need to know to make full sense of the darned thing.
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Mark Williams
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Ha ha, Scott I was just thinking about Middle Earth. One of the few CCGs I have never managed to learn properly. I bought some starters around the same time Star Wars CCG emerged (that didn't seem to hard at the time) but have always struggled with ME.
 
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David Bate
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MECCGs region/site travel and linked hazard systems was one of the most fun CCG mechanisms I've ever played. It really recreated the feel of an adventurous journey and created stories in my mind.
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Brad Miller
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I too thought of middle earth, the most complex I've played. And we've never played beyond Hothreally, as we don't have many degobah stuff, though a bit of cloud city. It's not too bad. I think dune may have been even more dense than MECCG.
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G M
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CategoryOneGames wrote:
I'm guessing you have never tried the Middle Earth CCG from ICE.

Star Wars CCG is easy to learn if you get a Premiere 2 Player Starter Set or the Death Star II Starter Decks.

It gets harder the more advanced you try to go with it though as there are a lot of other items and rules added on. The basics are easy, but you will dig yourself into a lot of rules if you want to get into the full game. That's just about any CCG though.


That's funny. I'll never found Middle Earth to be that hard to play/understand (outside of maybe a few expansion rules I never used or needed to be familiar with anyway). But in the end I'm still not sure either me or my brother (only person I played this with) ever played this game correctly, though we at least got closer near the end. But we did not try either of those rule books, only the standard premiere rules.
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Nick Bolton
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Windopaene wrote:
I too thought of middle earth, the most complex I've played. And we've never played beyond Hothreally, as we don't have many degobah stuff, though a bit of cloud city. It's not too bad. I think dune may have been even more dense than MECCG.


These 3 are my favourite CCGS
SWCCG
Middle Earth
& Dune

The rules are fine for Star Wars & The Wizards, if you learn them from the original rulebooks and add expansions and later rule updates over time. You can still have a lot of fun with the first few sets.

With Dune the opposite is true, the first rulebook makes little sense but the 3rd & final one is the easiest to understand.
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Chris Brown
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There is no reason to have two A's at the beginning of aardvark. I simply won't do it.
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The only problem I have with SWCCG at this point is the lack of symmetry. Playing preconstructed decks with my friends is fun because we plan out star battles or the hoth invasion or whatever else. If you play tournament style it ends up being star destroyers vs pod racers or defend naboo vs jabba's palace? Takes a lot of the fun out of it.
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Nick Bolton
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killerardvark wrote:
The only problem I have with SWCCG at this point is the lack of symmetry. Playing preconstructed decks with my friends is fun because we plan out star battles or the hoth invasion or whatever else. If you play tournament style it ends up being star destroyers vs pod racers or defend naboo vs jabba's palace? Takes a lot of the fun out of it.


This is exactly the way I think it works best, matched theme decks.

Never had much interest myself in tournament style decks, although it's hard to find much else online these days.
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Duncan Idaho
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fightcitymayor wrote:
Mike Wene wrote:
No. There are more convoluted ones.

The Magic: The Gathering rules are now in excess of 200 pages.
That is misleading, as those are the "comprehensive rules" designed for judges and tournament environments, where someone feels like examining the most minute detail of the letter of the law. I can teach someone how to play Magic in 10 minutes.

Decipher was indeed adept at churning out games with that "wall of text" effect that just makes your eyes glaze over. It seems CCG/LCG design has moved on from this, thankfully.



But the 150-page Star Wars rulebook is also the comprehensive rules. I can teach someone to play out of the mini-DSII starter rulebook.
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