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Descent: Journeys in the Dark (Second Edition)» Forums » Variants

Subject: Descent Solo/Coop: Nerdook's Variant 2.0 rss

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Hey guys!

Thanks for those of you who tried my previous Solo/Coop variant and gave all the great feedback. I've gone through the comments and spent the last few weeks coming up with an improved version of my Descent solo/coop variant!

You can grab the necessary image files from: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/djvre5rmncw4879/TnZlsGLVtR

DESIGN GOALS

1) A randomly generated Dungeon Generator, capable of creating a different layout each time with minimal set up time, while giving the players a sense of exploration.
2) Backwards and forwards compatibility with ALL expansions, in ANY combination, including the Conversion Kit, small/large Expansions, and Lt Packs. It should be fully playable even with just the Core Set.
3) A challenging, balanced AI system that also gives the players plenty of meaningful choices and risk/reward decisions.
4) A short 1-2 hour dungeon crawl that has plenty of character progression and item looting.


UPDATES
-Major revision to the rules: Elder Dragon now replaced by a series of Quests to defeat 3 different Lieutenants
-Reduced the victory condition for the Overlord to 6 Threat
-Each tile may only be explored ONCE... that means you'll have to push through new rooms to uncover new ones.


GAME RULES

I've summarised the variant's rules into the following image, using the card template from the upcoming official solo co-op campaign cards as the background. The key changes to the Descent system includes using Fortune/Threat tokens differently from the Plot Decks.



Additional Changes:
- Figure limits and monster stats use the 3-player option from the original Descent 2E, regardless of how many players there are. That means most Huge/Massive monsters are a single Master figure.
- Standing Up takes 2 actions as usual.
- Heroes start with 1 XP, and need to defeat Lieutenants to gain additional XP.

NEW CARDS

My Solo/Coop variant requires you to print out 54 additional cards, divided into the following:

1) 27 AI OVERLORD CARDS that replace the original Overlord cards. These control the events in the Dungeon and the movement of the monsters. Sample card:



One card is drawn after each Hero moves, and the AI Overlord deck also serves as a timer. Whenever the Reshuffle card is drawn, the Overlord gains an additional Threat token out of the 6 required, so the Heroes must make full use of their actions!

The bottom right of the card contains a symbol that is used to pick the 3 Monster Groups for each Dungeon. That way, these cards can be used for any expansions or monster group, including the upcoming Hero/Monster packs.

2) 18 DUNGEON CARDS that replace the Travel Events cards. These are drawn to build the Dungeon when the Hero ends a turn on the open edge. 6 additional cards are available for the three recent expansions. Sample card:



Each Dungeon tile comes with a unique property or event, as detailed on the Dungeon card.

3) 9 LIEUTENANT CARDS which are drawn whenever the Heroes spawn a Lieutenant. Lieutenants grant better rewards, including Relics, when defeated, but activate much more often than normal monsters. One of the Overlord cards, Diabolic Power, upgrades existing Monster Groups to Act II and spawns a Lieutenant, instantly making the dungeon a deadlier place.

Sample Lieutenant Card:



Currently this variant has the original 6 Lieutenants, and 3 more from the expansion packs: Valyndra, Bol'Goreth and Ariad. Simply remove the Lieutenants if you do not have the required expansion pack, OR use a proxy!

TRY THE VARIANT

That's all! Once you've got everything printed and sleeved, you're ready to go! Just pick a bunch of Heroes, place the Entrance tile, shuffle the decks and away you go!

Let me know how the game goes for you, the playtests so far have been pretty close-run things for me, and are generally enjoyable dungeon crawls. The last game I played, the Treasure Hunter got his grubby hands on a Boomerang and went on a rampage hurling it into the heads of every monster he came across.

If you like what I've done, you can also support my other projects! I'm a computer game designer with a game coming out soon on GoG and Humble Store, and pending more votes on Steam Greenlight: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=205631...
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Benji T
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Oh god..... I just did a professional printing of the first version, like yesterday =((

I'll take a look through this version, maybe I'll have nerdook v1 and nerdook v2 so I have a choice of coop modes =)
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benjamintham wrote:
Oh god..... I just did a professional printing of the first version, like yesterday =((

I'll take a look through this version, maybe I'll have nerdook v1 and nerdook v2 so I have a choice of coop modes =)


cry I'm so sorry...
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Benji T
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Haha please don't be sorry. The fact is, your coop variant (version 1 at least) is a very clean and easy implementation of AI. Smooth as silk and few cards to print.
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Here are some photos from a sample session I'm running to demonstrate my variant!



Everything fit into the core Descent box, with the help of some cheap transparent boxes (around $2 for 3). Note that I've removed all the unnecessary figures, map tiles and cards, placing them into the Labyrinth of Ruin box instead.



Bits and pieces set up and ready to play, a few minutes later. I've chosen Syndrael (Knight) and Ulma Grimstone (Apothecary) as the heroes.



First Dungeon Card drawn, and it's.. the Torture Room! Ulma decides to risk it and test her Willpower for a Fortune token, but fails (OH NO!) and the Overlord gains a Threat token before the game has even begun, thanks to her greed. Yikes!



Drawing the Monster Groups... and it'll be Fire Imps as Group A, Shadow Dragons as Group B and Ettins as Group C today! Looks like a tough fight ahead.



Ulma rushes ahead and grabs that first Search token... and it's a Stamina potion. Hurray!



Since she ends her turn on an open edge, Ulma reveals the next room. And it's... the Great Hall! Two Fire Imps and an Ettin are instantly spawned, and stare at our brave Apothecary at the entrance to their Hall.



Ulma draws her Overlord card. It's Dark Magic! With her relatively high Intelligence, surely she will be able to resist, right? Nope! The Overlord successfully casts Word of Despair, Ulma fails the roll, and suffers 2 fatigue for her trouble.



Syndrael goes next. Running into the Great Hall and spending a fatigue on movement allows her to JUST BARELY grab that second Search Token. She flips the top card, and it's... NOTHING. The Heroes are just having a rotten start today... but at least that second Search token grants the Heroes their very first Fortune token!



Syndrael draws her Overlord card, and it activates Monster Group B. A Shadow Dragon rushes into the Great Hall, blocks the middle of the room completely, and rolls 5 hearts to Syndrael's zero shields. Her Wooden Shield blocks 1 damage, but she still takes a gut wrenching 4 damage hit from the Shadow Dragon.

And that ends the first turn of the game. The Overlord has 1 Threat out of the 8 required to win and a Great Hall with all four of its master Monsters in play. The Heroes have 1 Fortune token, and will have to fight their way past the Dragon to explore the rest of the dungeon, which will be no easy feat. Will they succeed?!

-Cliffhanger Ending-
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Andrew Dale
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I'm loving what you've done with this version of your variant! It looks clean and straightforward to play so I'll be getting some of these cards printed in draft to test it. Just some quick questions and observations before testing myself:

(1) does the award of fortune go into a pool and then spending tokens affects all heroes equally? Or does each hero get the fortune separately and spend it separately?

(2) on the AI cards where it explicitly states that a monster triggers all abilities, is the implication that under a normal activation abilities are NOT used?

(3) in practice, how regularly do the AI cards come up during the game? I ask that because 18 seems a small number at first glance

(4) I REALLY hope you do create the optional dungeon cards for the other tiles. I know some will only have the core set and that's great but there will be many of us who have a ton of cardboard to use!!

(5) Apologies if I've missed this bit but where we draw overlord cards to determine monster group A, B and C - how have you then selected the actual monsters from the trait? A random draw or a table with d10's etc?

Sorry for the barrage of questions but I'm really keen to understand this fully.
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1) Fortune tokens go into a pool and can be spent together when a Town Portal opens. However, only the Hero that activated the Town Portal can gain the new items, skills, etc... the rest will have to either visit the Town using a separate action, or trade items on a later turn.
2) Yes, under normal activation you ignore everything with an ability sign, and when triggered, the monster does as many abilities as possible.
3) One of the 18 cards is the Reshuffle card, which recycles the deck and gives the Overlord a free Threat token. Not sure how to average that. Assuming the heroes never get knocked out (unlikely), you'll be seeing Overlord cards appear maybe 72 times or so (which is ridiculously long).
4) I have a ton of cardboard to use too, but that's not a top priority at the moment.
5) You shuffle the Monster cards that come with the game face-down, and just draw them one at a time until something fits. In edge cases (such as Fire-Group A without owning Fire Imps), just draw a different Overlord card when you exhaust the Monster deck without a valid pick.

No problem, I'll be glad to answer your questions!
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Ok, continuing the sample game, turn two!

It's Ulma's turn, and she's facing the horrible sight of a giant Shadow Dragon blocking her way. Fortunately, she has the Concoction card which grants her Pierce 1 and a free surge if she has an elixir token. So here's the plan. First, suffer a fatigue to gain an elixir...



...and one more fatigue to use Concoction to attack the Shadow Dragon.



That's one heart, two surges, and one extra surge from Concoction. Coupled with Pierce 1, that's a pretty amazing 5 damage hit from our little potion brewer! That Shadow Dragon is half dead now. Let's do that again, using Ulma's last fatigue before she hits her Stamina cap:



Well, that's more than enough hearts rolled to kill the Shadow Dragon and pour some excess acid onto its stinking carcass. BYE BYE MISTER SHADOW DRAGON! With those two good rolls, Ulma takes down the Dragon and claims her two Fortune tokens... yay!



The Great Hall is looking pretty clear now. Ulma draws her Overlord card, and it's... a Deadly Trap! That Dragon carcass must've been booby trapped, or something...



...but fortunately the trap is a dud, since Ulma rolls a blank. That means she draws a second Overlord card...



This activates Group C, the master Ettin, who rushes forward, right up to Ulma's face, but can't hit her because he needed both actions to reach her. Syndrael now takes her turn.



She moves and goes for the nearer Fire Imp, which has 4 Health. Rolling 4 hearts and a surge against the Imp's single shield, that gives Syndrael 3 damage... but wait! Her Longsword allows her to reroll an enemy's defence die...



...and it comes up as a blank, causing the Fire Imp to be just barely defeated. Using her Advance class card, Syndrael takes 1 fatigue to move again and attack the other Fire Imp.



A decent five heart/1 surge roll means Syndrael clears both Imps and claims two more Fortune tokens, one for each master figure defeated.



Syndrael then explores a new room... and it's an Altar. Selecting Ulma to test her Willpower, the Heroes succeed and receive a minor blessing, allowing Syndrael to recover 3 hearts.



Syndrael's Overlord card respawns another Fire Imp from the remaining open edge, who moves one space forward and attacks her. Unfortunately, the attack fails due to lack of range AND insufficient hearts.

So that's the end of turn two. By now it looks like things have started to turn around for our plucky Heroes!
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Selwyn Hope
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Looks pretty good, and must less complicated for creating the dungeon.

Might have to print some of these out
 
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Erik Burigo
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Wow! This is awesome! Thank you so much!

A couple of questions, though.

1) Monster movement and attacks is not fully explicated. How do the players decide which abilities/surges monsters use? And in which order?
For example: how are we going to activate Elementals? May monsters with Rampage attack twice?

2) Dungeon card: Lava Passage. What is "Flame Fiend"?

Anyway, I love the streamlined rules you weaved here. I'm eager to try them (and to see how you will handle the "outdoor" tiles and tiles from expansions).

How about an (Android) App? whistle
 
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Benji T
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Sel: do read/try out the version 1 as well. Slightly different feel. And as far as I can tell, both require only a few pages of ink, no insane PnP skillz required.
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Elliott Harding
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This looks great! I'm looking to print the cards and was wondering if there are card backs to them?

Also, for those that like to print out "nice looking" cards, where do you have them done?

Thanks
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Selwyn Hope
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benjamintham wrote:
Sel: do read/try out the version 1 as well. Slightly different feel. And as far as I can tell, both require only a few pages of ink, no insane PnP skillz required.


I printed the book for Nerdook's first version. The map generation was a little tricky/required keeping track of stuff. This version looks pretty good.
 
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Painkeeper wrote:
Wow! This is awesome! Thank you so much!

A couple of questions, though.

1) Monster movement and attacks is not fully explicated. How do the players decide which abilities/surges monsters use? And in which order?
For example: how are we going to activate Elementals? May monsters with Rampage attack twice?

2) Dungeon card: Lava Passage. What is "Flame Fiend"?

Anyway, I love the streamlined rules you weaved here. I'm eager to try them (and to see how you will handle the "outdoor" tiles and tiles from expansions).

How about an (Android) App? whistle


1) When you draw the card that says "Trigger ALL abilities, trigger every ability possible. For example, the Ettin will activate "Throw", while the Elemental will trigger ALL four of its abilities.

Surges are resolved from top to bottom, left to right, in that order, regardless of whether a different order might have been 'better'. For example, if the Monster card has +1 heart and Surge: Poison, the second surge only occurs if the Monster rolls two surges.

Yes, Monsters with Rampage may attack twice: ditto for all Passive abilities.

2) "Flame Fiend" is a passive attribute that Fire Imps have, from the Lair of the Wyrm expansion.

I just lost badly in my test game, rolling a whole series of X's and getting eaten by the dragon in the end. I will be updating the Dragon's stats to make it a little more balanced!
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Selwyn Hope
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For the 3 Scenario cards, I assume you/we could make additional end rooms and objectives without modifying the stuff on the other two cards.

Could do a rescue mission, or an escort (get NPC from entrance to exit), Light all the beacons, etc.

 
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Selwyn Hope
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Just as a note, if you are using the Descent Symbols font, you can use the number keys to get the "monster type" symbols to use on the cards. Admittedly they are only black/white fonts, but may look neater than a copy/paste/scan of the cards.

[Get it while it lasts]: updated font at http://www.filedropper.com/descentsymbols (has expansion symbols up to Trollfens, next official update will include Nerekhall after I get my hands on it).
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Additional room draws can be easily added using the template. Here's the blank for the Dungeon Cards:



The tile number uses the Blackmoor LET font.
The name of the room uses the Windlass font.
The rest of the test uses Gara Scenario Descent or Garamond, whichever suits your fancy.

With that, you can create custom cards for every single expansion so far, and all the expansions to come, so feel free to take it and use it for your own.
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eharding wrote:
This looks great! I'm looking to print the cards and was wondering if there are card backs to them?

Also, for those that like to print out "nice looking" cards, where do you have them done?

Thanks


There are no card backs in this variant. What I did was, all my cards have transparent sleeves anyway, so I printed these out (be sure to trial test in black and white to get the sizes right!!), cut them out and slid them into the sleeves. Not as good as professional prints, but way way cheaper (it's $1 for 3 pages, or 27 cards: sleeve costs are negligible).

If you're looking for professional cards, I think Artscow and PrinterStudio are the main go-to sites, though there may be better sites around if you ask politely on BGG.
 
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Erik Burigo
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nerdook wrote:

1) When you draw the card that says "Trigger ALL abilities, trigger every ability possible. For example, the Ettin will activate "Throw", while the Elemental will trigger ALL four of its abilities.

Excellent. That's pretty cool!

I also imagine that, in any case the monster must choose a target for one of its abilities (like Heal or Throw), it will follow the same rules it uses for attack (harass the Hero with the least life remaining or help the monster with the least life remaining).

nerdook wrote:

Surges are resolved from top to bottom, left to right, in that order, regardless of whether a different order might have been 'better'. For example, if the Monster card has +1 heart and Surge: Poison, the second surge only occurs if the Monster rolls two surges.

I supposed so, but I wanted to be sure. thumbsup

nerdook wrote:

Yes, Monsters with Rampage may attack twice: ditto for all Passive abilities.


Very good.

nerdook wrote:

2) "Flame Fiend" is a passive attribute that Fire Imps have, from the Lair of the Wyrm expansion.


Oh! Quite circumstantial... May I suggest a trigger on the "Hot" monster trait instead?

nerdook wrote:

I just lost badly in my test game, rolling a whole series of X's and getting eaten by the dragon in the end. I will be updating the Dragon's stats to make it a little more balanced!


Really? Isn't more epic to be beaten repeatedly until eventually you'll get to equip the right equipment and defeat that vicious beast?
Or is that dragon really too overpowered to have a chance?

Thank you for your work, feedback and templates!
 
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nerdook wrote:
(...)
DESIGN GOALS

1) A randomly generated Dungeon Generator, capable of creating a different layout each time with minimal set up time, while giving the players a sense of exploration.
2) Backwards and forwards compatibility with ALL expansions, in ANY combination, including the Conversion Kit, small/large Expansions, and Lt Packs. It should be fully playable even with just the Core Set.
3) A challenging, balanced AI system that also gives the players plenty of meaningful choices and risk/reward decisions.
4) A short 1-2 hour dungeon crawl that has plenty of character progression and item looting.
(...)


Great work again! I'm looking for a variant with the exact goals in mind and I'll try it soon!
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Painkeeper wrote:


nerdook wrote:

2) "Flame Fiend" is a passive attribute that Fire Imps have, from the Lair of the Wyrm expansion.


Oh! Quite circumstantial... May I suggest a trigger on the "Hot" monster trait instead?


You're welcome to do that if you like! The intent on using "Flame Fiend" is because the original attribute lets the monster figure regain 1 heart if it's on a lava square. Without being controlled by an Overlord, this is extremely unlikely to happen, so I made it a lava TILE instead.
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Wow, I can't wait to try this variant tonight! Thanks for your work and for sharing it.

I have some questions and some feedback regarding the rules:

Q1) Are edges with closed doors considered "open" for spawning purposes? (I assume not)

Q2) Can you trade starting equipment for a value of 25 at the town portal?

Q3) I was struggling with understanding the part of the Setup instructions that talks about arranging Heroes in descending order. Is this only to decide the order in which the heroes take their turns?

And now for the additional feedback:

F1) I didn't understand the "trigger all abilities" rules and how to handle surges. You explained it well in a previous answer. The confusing part is that a monster could have several abilities which could be passive, triggered by surges or used with actions. As I understand your previous explanation the "Trigger all abilities" means that you should trigger all abilities that require an action. It might be good to reword the cards in some such manner. The order of triggering surges during an attack would also be good to explain on one of the rules cards.

F2) I was going to ask if monsters with ranged attack stop as soon as they get within 4 squares or if they move their entire movement to get even closer. I see in your example that the Fire Imp stopped as soon as it got within 4 squares. The rules say that "monsters with ranged attacks will move to within 4 squares of a Hero before attacking". From that wording I got that if the monster was more than 4 squares away it had to move first, but it wasn't clear to me that they stop as soon as they are 4 squares away.

F3) It might be a good idea to explain on the setup card that all monsters start off as Act I. (You understand it when you see the Diabolic Power card, but it's not evident before that.)

F4) I didn't understand that you place a search token on the numbered corner on each dungeon tile (after the original setup) until I read your example game. I understood that you did it on the first tile because it said so in the setup, but there is nothing said about it on the Dungeon Exploration rules card. It would be good to mention it on the rules card for Dungeon Exploration as well.

F5) The Evil Aura card has a typo. It says "for [each shield]" twice.

F6) It would be great if the additional rules changes were listed on a rules card:
- Figure limits and Lieutenant stats use the 3-player option from the original Descent 2E, regardless of how many players there are. That means most Huge/Massive monsters are a single Master figure.
- Standing Up takes 1 action instead of 2.
- Heroes start with 1 XP, and need to spend Fortune tokens to purchase additional Class cards during the game.

Thanks again! Looking forward to trying it out.
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Deebs wrote:

Q1) Are edges with closed doors considered "open" for spawning purposes? (I assume not)

Q2) Can you trade starting equipment for a value of 25 at the town portal?

Q3) I was struggling with understanding the part of the Setup instructions that talks about arranging Heroes in descending order. Is this only to decide the order in which the heroes take their turns?


A1) Yes, they are... let's assume the monsters open the door and then politely shut it back.

A2) No. Speaking of which, I should also add that trading items (with an adjacent hero) costs an action: gotta find someplace to add that in.

A3) Yes, it is to decide the order for the Heroes to take their action. High Awareness Heroes go first, etc.

Other points: Yep, I will go back through the cards and update them. Let me know how your playtest goes! It's definitely better to wait for all typos, etc on the cards to be fixed before printing this. I'm preparing some higher resolution images for PrinterStudio/Artscow.
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Raymond Morehouse
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I'm also going to be giving this a try, but a question and a suggestion:

1. If group limits have to be respected what is to keep the heroes from just charging forward knowing that nothing can spawn in deeper rooms?

2. Do Lt.s also spawn on the nearest open edge?

3. Why not randomise the final boss as well? Elder Dragon, Ettin Warlord, Merriod Matriarch... that sort of thing. That way each run would (potentially) differnt.

(Also, I just realised that you are the Nerdook that makes all the great games I have played on Kongregate. I think I have played them all, so now its mandatory that I play this! Thanks!)

(Edited out stupid questions)
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Honestly, because this is the first go. I imagine they didn't want to stray too far off the farm for this first official solo/coop attempt, so made things pretty 'hard-coded' as they say. By making fewer things randomized, they probably had more control in the creation of the system...

-shnar
 
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