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Subject: Do you guys play with representatives? rss

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Tom N
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We haven't really found them to be too much fun, to the contrary they seem to slow our games down more than anything. We've tried them twice out of the dozen or so games we've played now and 2 different people commented that he thought they were a waste of time, while one person said he enjoyed them. What do you guys think?
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bob mackenzie
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we really enjoy them in our group, it seems to feel more realistic approach (sending 'diplomatic' people) to political. Its fun when you have an important vote or maybe want a chance to secretly kill someones dudes

however i personally hate the intrigue strategy card, mainly because it has no benefits of getting it, so with this we added a house rule, so when playing with the original 3 card(political), we would add in the representitive stage when voting was to be done.

try this out in your game and see if it changes anything, if not then just take them out. pretty much an optional rule anyway
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Scott Randolph
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Zeromage wrote:
We haven't really found them to be too much fun, to the contrary they seem to slow our games down more than anything. We've tried them twice out of the dozen or so games we've played now and 2 different people commented that he thought they were a waste of time, while one person said he enjoyed them. What do you guys think?


Hate them.
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Matt Epp
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The ratio of value to time added is very small for me.

Would never choose to use them.

If I want something thematically fun and fiddly, it's leaders I choose.
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Tom N
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Eppic wrote:
The ratio of value to time added is very small for me.

Would never choose to use them.

If I want something thematically fun and fiddly, it's leaders I choose.


Yeah, we always play with leaders. I don't think I'd ever leave them out.
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Tom N
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The representatives seem to add about 3-5 minutes per vote for our group (maybe we're slow), and given that we usually have 5-7 votes per game, that's as much as 35 minutes added to our games. I just don't think they're worth it.

No one seems to care if their representative gets killed ever, and they never add any fun for us. In a way they make us dread the voting process, and we end up getting into arguments over them more often than not. I'm just checking to see if it's because we've only used them 2 times, and maybe after a few more tries it goes quicker, but it doesn't seem that way from the comments here.
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Scott Lewis
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Zeromage wrote:
The representatives seem to add about 3-5 minutes per vote for our group (maybe we're slow), and given that we usually have 5-7 votes per game, that's as much as 35 minutes added to our games. I just don't think they're worth it.

While the opinion of whether they are liked are not is obviously individual taste, I don't buy the time argument. Unless your game group is kicking out the game in 6 hours or less, that extra time (if it truly is that long) is pretty trivial compared to the overall length. In many of the games I've played, the far bigger offender in terms of game length is people just not paying attention until their turn, and then having to spend several minutes just assessing the board, deciding what to do, etc. (Granted, SOME turns justify some deeper thought, but most turns you can have a pretty good idea of what you want to do before your turn comes up if you are attentive to the game).

There are various valid reasons to not like them, even if I don't agree with them. The time factor is not one I buy, though; if that's the only reason, it's a pretty weak reason considering the overall length of the game as a whole.

NOTE: I'm not saying anyone should like them if they don't want them; just don't use "time" as the deciding factor.
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Jonathan Challis
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Yeah, we hate them, but for the changes they make to the Political system (Influence now being secondary to the rock/paper/scissors of representatives).

If I liked the system, then adding 30 mins onto the game would be nothing. The problem is that we hate the system.
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Martin DeOlden
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I always use the representatives.
I also use the galactic council variant so that the political phase is more interesting as there are an amount of pc's available equal to the amount of players and a lowered PC deck with more important votes.
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Tom N
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sigmazero13 wrote:
Zeromage wrote:
The representatives seem to add about 3-5 minutes per vote for our group (maybe we're slow), and given that we usually have 5-7 votes per game, that's as much as 35 minutes added to our games. I just don't think they're worth it.

While the opinion of whether they are liked are not is obviously individual taste, I don't buy the time argument. Unless your game group is kicking out the game in 6 hours or less, that extra time (if it truly is that long) is pretty trivial compared to the overall length. In many of the games I've played, the far bigger offender in terms of game length is people just not paying attention until their turn, and then having to spend several minutes just assessing the board, deciding what to do, etc. (Granted, SOME turns justify some deeper thought, but most turns you can have a pretty good idea of what you want to do before your turn comes up if you are attentive to the game).

There are various valid reasons to not like them, even if I don't agree with them. The time factor is not one I buy, though; if that's the only reason, it's a pretty weak reason considering the overall length of the game as a whole.

NOTE: I'm not saying anyone should like them if they don't want them; just don't use "time" as the deciding factor.


Well, we usually finish in 6.5 or 7 hours. But we use pre-set maps. I didn't mean to say that time was the only reason though. Kelanen hit the nail on the head for me...it's just rock paper scissors. Which sucks, because I love mostly everything else in the game that differeniates the races.
 
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Scott Lewis
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I can buy not liking the system, and if you don't like a system, extra time or no, you won't want to use it.

I don't personally agree with the conclusion of the RPS simplification, as I do think there's a bit more depth than that, but only if the players involved are interested in the concept. Like many variants (official or otherwise), some resonate with certain groups and people more than others.
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Joseph Cochran
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As a data point: we like them.

Yes, they add time, but we like the added element and it's not like the game isn't "all day" anyway.
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Justin Rio
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Like reps a lot. Without them I feel the political strategy lacks a bit of its punch. The rep effects greatly increased our debate and deal-making, and are like riders or pork barrels.
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Paul Schulzetenberg
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We omit them, along with a lot of other items that we see as lengthening the game without adequate fun payoff.
 
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Magic Octopus
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tawnos76 wrote:
I always use the representatives.
I also use the galactic council variant so that the political phase is more interesting as there are an amount of pc's available equal to the amount of players and a lowered PC deck with more important votes.


Do you have multiple Agendas voted on each time or just one? If multiple, how do the reps tie into that? I'm very interested.
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Manary Corte
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We always use representatives. They add a lot to the game and makes the political ascpect of the game much more fun.
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Martin DeOlden
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magicoctopus wrote:
tawnos76 wrote:
I always use the representatives.
I also use the galactic council variant so that the political phase is more interesting as there are an amount of pc's available equal to the amount of players and a lowered PC deck with more important votes.


Do you have multiple Agendas voted on each time or just one? If multiple, how do the reps tie into that? I'm very interested.


Usually just one.
There have been multiple and we consider those votes a part of the same council so the same reps are present and do not reactivate. This can be important as you want your rep to be alive for both votes.

We tried to do multiple with a new council each time but that did add more time then necessary so we went with just one.
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Scott Randolph
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Kelanen wrote:
Yeah, we hate them, but for the changes they make to the Political system (Influence now being secondary to the rock/paper/scissors of representatives).

If I LIKED the system, then adding 30 mins onto the game would be nothing. The problem is that we hate the system.


"+1"
 
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David Damerell
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Zeromage wrote:
We haven't really found them to be too much fun, to the contrary they seem to slow our games down more than anything. We've tried them twice out of the dozen or so games we've played now and 2 different people commented that he thought they were a waste of time, while one person said he enjoyed them. What do you guys think?


I enjoy them, and I don't think it's just RPS because of the way the strategic situation informs your choices. I've also noticed one or two subtle effects (maybe even deliberate?) - for example, the Yssaril, generally reckoned to be one of the strongest races, are weak at intrigue because they have no bodyguard.
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John Smith
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I use them. They make political aspect of the game much more deeper. Scenario like "Yo, I've accidentally got braindead ally who vote as I wish, so you can't stop me this way" isn't possible anymore. Moreover, Nekro Virus player is screwed without this rule, and some Great Races, considered as "weak" have amazing representatives (like N'orr or Yin).

Oh, and Promissory Notes finally let players to form a little more "stable" alliance.
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Kim Andersen
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I like the idea, but it adss a lot of time to the choice off, some one gets trade goods. the politikel carts are offen to Irrelevant for my group. sow we skip that option. an get another game in insted
 
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Lance Harrop
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Tried them. Don't like them.

I've got other variants to political to make it more fun. I just need a cadre of experienced players to get the most of them.

Of course, that would be true of Representatives also.
 
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Andrew Williams
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I liked them a lot when I played my very 1st game but my interest in them has waned since. They do add more colour to the politcal round - which is probably what attracted me to them as a new player - but they do also seem to reduce the politcal aspect of the game further. In my last game my reps were killed off for no good reason other than another guy could kill someone, so he chose me. Thus I hardly ever got to vote. Nekro was in the game, so no votes there either, which just left 3 players to decide matters.

I'll drop them next game and see how that plays out.
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Patrik Vågehed
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We use them all the time.

1. Its NOT Rock-Paper-Scissor. Maybe that could be trough if you dont know/care about the other representatives. But we have all printed out for all player to see. YOU know what the other races have for stat/ability. THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT!! If you have NO bodyguard and other races/player have spies you better watch the political game and ally with somebody!

2. The time it adds is worth the "gambling". Yust saying no/yes is less fun and often VERY obvious.

3. People often forget ONE IMPORTANT RULE: If your represantive is killes YOU CANNOT VOTE or even use promissary notes. IF ALL YOURS ALL KILLED, YOU CANNOT VOTE FOR REMAINDER OF GAME!!

4. People (or at least newbies on representative) seems to only se them as +2/+4 and spy/bodyguard. They are much more. They are a way of playing the political game WAY further. "I will kill your resp. if you do not...", "You will vote this way or I get..." Sometimes they can feel a bit low on payoff but I think its worth it.
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Jonathan Challis
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gumshoe_nr1 wrote:
We use them all the time.

1. Its NOT Rock-Paper-Scissor. Maybe that could be trough if you dont know/care about the other representatives. But we have all printed out for all player to see. YOU know what the other races have for stat/ability. THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT!! If you have NO bodyguard and other races/player have spies you better watch the political game and ally with somebody!

2. The time it adds is worth the "gambling". Yust saying no/yes is less fun and often VERY obvious.

3. People often forget ONE IMPORTANT RULE: If your represantive is killes YOU CANNOT VOTE or even use promissary notes. IF ALL YOURS ALL KILLED, YOU CANNOT VOTE FOR REMAINDER OF GAME!!

4. People (or at least newbies on representative) seems to only se them as +2/+4 and spy/bodyguard. They are much more. They are a way of playing the political game WAY further. "I will kill your resp. if you do not...", "You will vote this way or I get..." Sometimes they can feel a bit low on payoff but I think its worth it.


No we see all of these things, and these are PRECISELY what we hate about the system (especially #3).

It turns the Politics part of the game into a (yes, slightly more complex) RPS with Influence as a tiebreaker. As opposed to Influence as the primary count that matters. If these factors are positives for you then great, but it seems for the majority they aren't.
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