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Subject: Questions on consequences of assassinating a Loyalist Main Agent rss

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Plei Forejoy
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Scenario:
Everyone has 0 VPs and the War/Revolution Tracks are at 0.
Player A, who has no other agents, acquires Necronomicon, gaining 3 immediate VPs and becoming Known to the Authorities.

Player B assassinates Player A's Main Agent.
A reveals to be a Loyalist and hence, suffers no consequences (except having his identity revealed).

Questions:
1. Since A is a Loyalist, does B become Known to the Authorities?
2. Will A keep adjusting his VP marker whenever the War Track changes?
 
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Kris Ardianto
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Jebbie wrote:
Scenario:
Everyone has 0 VPs and the War/Revolution Tracks are at 0.
Player A, who has no other agents, acquires Necronomicon, gaining 3 immediate VPs and becoming Known to the Authorities.

Player B assassinates Player A's Main Agent.
A reveals to be a Loyalist and hence, suffers no consequences (except having his identity revealed).

Questions:
1. Since A is a Loyalist, does B become Known to the Authorities?
2. Will A keep adjusting his VP marker whenever the War Track changes?


1. I don't think so, since the assassination was a failure thus did not provide him any points.
2. I think points from War/Restoration track only counted at the end game.
 
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Mikko Saari
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Does it matter if the points are adjusted during the game or only after the game? They do count for ending the game either way.
 
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Kris Ardianto
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msaari wrote:
Does it matter if the points are adjusted during the game or only after the game? They do count for ending the game either way.


Yes, in this case it does not matter since player A's hidden identity was already revealed. So it does not matter. But for the sake of uniformity and consistency should he get points from the War track, his other potential points from other actions are decreased by it, since at some point his points will trigger end game.
For instance if his point from war track is immediately adjusted, he might have trigger end game before he even get the chance to kill a royalist. But if the point from war track are adjusted in the end game, he might have kill the royalist first before triggering end game.
 
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Richard Potthoff
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It's late and I'm tired but what makes you think the assassination is a failure? Unless I'm mistaken A still suffers the loss of his main agent token. The assassinating player gets the token and hence becomes known to the authorities. The only consequence avoided by A being a loyalist is that the game does not end immediately.
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Sebastian Grab
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jtserick wrote:
It's late and I'm tired but what makes you think the assassination is a failure? Unless I'm mistaken A still suffers the loss of his main agent token. The assassinating player gets the token and hence becomes known to the authorities. The only consequence avoided by A being a loyalist is that the game does not end immediately.


No, this is incorrect. You can never lose your main agent token as a Loyalist. Main agent of player A remains intact and the game goes on, this is even specified in the manual.
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Karan R
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Jebbie wrote:

1. Since A is a Loyalist, does B become Known to the Authorities?
2. Will A keep adjusting his VP marker whenever the War Track changes?

1.B has gained no potential points so not known yet
2.Since A is now revealed, he can update all his scores as he gets them for any reason
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Richard Potthoff
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Valarus wrote:
jtserick wrote:
It's late and I'm tired but what makes you think the assassination is a failure? Unless I'm mistaken A still suffers the loss of his main agent token. The assassinating player gets the token and hence becomes known to the authorities. The only consequence avoided by A being a loyalist is that the game does not end immediately.


No, this is incorrect. You can never lose your main agent token as a Loyalist. Main agent of player A remains intact and the game goes on, this is even specified in the manual.


I knew that. I temporarily forgot about the endless supply of bureaucrats that immediately take a loyalist main agent's place! Hardly seems fair for the poor restorationist player. Loyalist main agents are immune to assassins, vamps, Shoggoth and even Great Cthulhu. Yet strangely they can be zombie bit under the right circumstances. Unless that has been changed by a FAQ that I've missed.
 
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nukeu666 wrote:
Jebbie wrote:

1. Since A is a Loyalist, does B become Known to the Authorities?
2. Will A keep adjusting his VP marker whenever the War Track changes?

1.B has gained no potential points so not known yet
2.Since A is now revealed, he can update all his scores as he gets them for any reason

2......EXC potential points for killing enemy restorationist agents where the identity of the owning player is not yet revealed.
 
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Sebastian Grab
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jtserick wrote:
I knew that. I temporarily forgot about the endless supply of bureaucrats that immediately take a loyalist main agent's place! Hardly seems fair for the poor restorationist player. Loyalist main agents are immune to assassins, vamps, Shoggoth and even Great Cthulhu. Yet strangely they can be zombie bit under the right circumstances. Unless that has been changed by a FAQ that I've missed.


I'm confused now

- layalist main agent can be turned into vampire, so not immune there
- loyalist main agant can be targeted with Shoggoth, when he is the last agant standing for the player. Not killed by Shoggot, but still Same thing with assassination.
- Cthulhu will never kill a main agent, regardless of faction, they will always run away. Or do you mean insanity hear?
- loyalist main agent will not die from zombies. He will be revealed as normal, but there is no differance there between being killed by zombies or assasinated.
 
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Richard Potthoff
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Valarus wrote:
jtserick wrote:
I knew that. I temporarily forgot about the endless supply of bureaucrats that immediately take a loyalist main agent's place! Hardly seems fair for the poor restorationist player. Loyalist main agents are immune to assassins, vamps, Shoggoth and even Great Cthulhu. Yet strangely they can be zombie bit under the right circumstances. Unless that has been changed by a FAQ that I've missed.


I'm confused now

- layalist main agent can be turned into vampire, so not immune there
- loyalist main agant can be targeted with Shoggoth, when he is the last agant standing for the player. Not killed by Shoggot, but still Same thing with assassination.
- Cthulhu will never kill a main agent, regardless of faction, they will always run away. Or do you mean insanity hear?
- loyalist main agent will not die from zombies. He will be revealed as normal, but there is no differance there between being killed by zombies or assasinated.


Check the vampire card description. Very quietly in one sentence it says that a main agent may NOT be targeted by a vampire attack.

The Zombie card description says a zombie can target a main agent if the player has no other agents. Maybe the loyalist "immunity" to this is covered under their presumed generic immunity. Maybe that is covered in one section of the FAQ?

Sooner or later I'll play this game with all the rules done correctly.
 
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Pas L
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Eh, according to the rules the only points that you score on the VP track prior to the last stage are for controlling cities and killing/hiding gods.

You can claim potential points to end the game, but you don't score them on the board and thus don't become known to the authorities. That is my understanding.

Please correct me if Wallace has corrected this.
 
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Plei Forejoy
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lamaros wrote:
Eh, according to the rules the only points that you score on the VP track prior to the last stage are for controlling cities and killing/hiding gods.

You can claim potential points to end the game, but you don't score them on the board and thus don't become known to the authorities. That is my understanding.

Please correct me if Wallace has corrected this.
It is in the rule book (p. 11, with an example even) that once you acquired potential VP, you become Known to the Authorities.
 
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Plei Forejoy
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jtserick wrote:
Valarus wrote:
jtserick wrote:
I knew that. I temporarily forgot about the endless supply of bureaucrats that immediately take a loyalist main agent's place! Hardly seems fair for the poor restorationist player. Loyalist main agents are immune to assassins, vamps, Shoggoth and even Great Cthulhu. Yet strangely they can be zombie bit under the right circumstances. Unless that has been changed by a FAQ that I've missed.


I'm confused now

- layalist main agent can be turned into vampire, so not immune there
- loyalist main agant can be targeted with Shoggoth, when he is the last agant standing for the player. Not killed by Shoggot, but still Same thing with assassination.
- Cthulhu will never kill a main agent, regardless of faction, they will always run away. Or do you mean insanity hear?
- loyalist main agent will not die from zombies. He will be revealed as normal, but there is no differance there between being killed by zombies or assasinated.


Check the vampire card description. Very quietly in one sentence it says that a main agent may NOT be targeted by a vampire attack.

The Zombie card description says a zombie can target a main agent if the player has no other agents. Maybe the loyalist "immunity" to this is covered under their presumed generic immunity. Maybe that is covered in one section of the FAQ?

Sooner or later I'll play this game with all the rules done correctly.
I think you two might have different interpretations of the word "immunity". One thinks it as "cannot be targeted by" and the other as "suffers no effects from".

Loyalist main agents can be targeted if they are the player's only agent and are Known to the Authorities. They just will never be killed.

For vampires, you can turn your own Main Agent into a blood-sucking undead, but you can never turn another player's Main Agent into one (because it would have involved you taking control over the piece, which would be a no-no).
 
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Sebastian Grab
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@ Ritchard:

Right, you are of course 100% correct, I was just confused by the way you wrote it. I thought you mean that vampires can't kill main agent for some reason with their assassinate ability. The zombie thing about killing the main agent is the same for all the cards, as in you can never kill the main agent if the players has any other agents - I didn't now what you mean, because it's a general rule and it didn't came to my mind with connection to just zombies.

Jebbie wrote:
I think you two might have different interpretations of the word "immunity". One thinks it as "cannot be targeted by" and the other as "suffers no effects from".


Yes, that's true as well.
 
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Christian Heckmann
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msaari wrote:
Does it matter if the points are adjusted during the game or only after the game? They do count for ending the game either way.

I'd say it kind of matters, since the game ends if a player crosses a certain VP-threshold. If a revealed loyalist immediatelay gains points through the war track, he might cross this threshold "out of sequence" (i.E. during another player's turn) and wouldn't need another action to "reveal" (which he already did) and therefore end the game. It's a minor quibble, but it might cause a difference in some games. Like almost every minor quibble in this game
 
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Richard Potthoff
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Valarus wrote:
@ Ritchard:

Right, you are of course 100% correct, I was just confused by the way you wrote it. I thought you mean that vampires can't kill main agent for some reason with their assassinate ability. The zombie thing about killing the main agent is the same for all the cards, as in you can never kill the main agent if the players has any other agents - I didn't now what you mean, because it's a general rule and it didn't came to my mind with connection to just zombies.

Jebbie wrote:
I think you two might have different interpretations of the word "immunity". One thinks it as "cannot be targeted by" and the other as "suffers no effects from".


Yes, that's true as well.



Is all this rigamarole about Main Agents and "immunity/non immunity" not deserving of its own section in the FAQ?
 
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