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Subject: Hero deck misprints rss

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Thomas
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I was speaking with another geek via gm and I'm a little confused. He was saying that most of the Hero Deck cards would need errata do to conflicting working and incorrect icons. Forgive my ignorance since I haven't read through the rules yet but is this true? I think the main point was that some cards have incorrect movement modifiers or some cards shouldn't have them at all. This seems like an epic fail if true.
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Endevor Rovedne
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All the interrupts can be played whatever movement you made or plan to do in the HC, if you have the rule that consider DC to be not a part of HC it is ok. I think they should have made Yes/yes/yes/yes instead of Yes/no/no/no but it is not such a big deal.
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Thomas
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Endevor wrote:
All the interrupts can be played whatever movement you made or plan to do in the HC, if you have the rule that consider DC to be not a part of HC it is ok. I think they should have made Yes/yes/yes/yes instead of Yes/no/no/no but it is not such a big deal.


I have no idea what you just said. I do not understand the rules or how the game plays. My concern is if the icons on the hero cards contradict the rules or are misprinted. I am trying to decide if I will keep my copy. It's one thing if the rule book is vague or missing some things but another if the cards contradict those rules.
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Andy Dunks
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It isn't a misprint,but a decision to have the standard movement icons on every card, even when some of the cards don't involve movement.

Still, if you simply read the text on the cards and the rules it is clear how to use them.

Overall, the rules are clumsily executed, but if you are an experienced gamer you should be able to figure them out. The other factor contributing to so much bewilderment is that the game really does contain some completely new - even revolutionary - mechanics, and people are simply having a hard time wrapping their minds around them because they don't fit with our preconceptions about how games should work.

Having said this, as someone who has spent hours working through the rules with the help of the BGG files, it has been well worth it. Myth is something new and unique, and I'm sure that the rules questions will be speedily resolved by the publishers. Take the plunge!
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Thomas
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Atvar wrote:
Interrupt and reaction cards inexplicably have movement icons on them as do action cards, though most of them don't involve movement, and those that do don't count it as "normal" movement.

If you simply read the text on the cards and the rules, though, it is clear how to use them.

Overall, the rules are clumsily executed, but if you are an experienced gamer you should be able to figure them out. The other factor contributing to so much bewilderment is that the game really does contain some completely new - even revolutionary - mechanics, and people are simply having a hard time wrapping their minds around them.

It is worth it, though, absolutely!


Are some of the icons on the cards not supposed to be there or wrong?
 
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Endevor Rovedne
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I don't think they are, reactions and actions are supposed to be used with the movement bonus/malus system.

They just don't apply to Interrupts.
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Andy Dunks
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Yes, I edited my original post for clarity. There is no reason to have movement icons at all on interrupt cards, but they didn't remove them.
It is clear from the text that movement isn't involved. It seems they just forgot or chose not to edit the card "template" for interrupts.
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Thomas
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Endevor wrote:
I don't think they are, reactions and actions are supposed to be used with the movement bonus/malus system.

They just don't apply to Interrupts.


SO why are they on the interrupt cards if they don't apply? Sorry for the confusion.
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Andy Dunks
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See above- I'm editing as fast as I can!
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Endevor Rovedne
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We don't know, it think it is something that may be used in future expansion but i don't have any insider information about that.
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Thomas
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Atvar wrote:
Yes, I edited my original post for clarity. There is no reason to have movement icons at all on interrupt cards, but they didn't remove them.
It is clear from the text that movement isn't involved. It seems they just forgot or chose not to edit the card "template" for interrupts.


Ok so for now we just need to ignore the icons for interrupt cards? Is there a way to distinguish interrupt cards easily? Are any of the moment icons or text wrong on the other hero cards?
 
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Endevor Rovedne
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Interrupts have a special icon at the bottom you can't miss them, they can only be played when the bad guys are playing (to interrupt their turn).
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Donny Behne
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Every card you can play has four icons down the side that represent type of movement you can or have done in that hero cycle: stationary, cautious (half movement rounded up), normal (each character's base movement, initially 2), or aggressive (movement granted by a card, whether you use your base movement or not). Each card will have the four movement icons down the left side and indicate either "yes" (which means you can use that card with that movement type) or "no" (you cannot play that card if you moved or plan to move in that fashion). Some cards will provide a bonus to an attack if you moved in a certain way but that's not pertinent to this discussion.

So now that you know that, some cards are interrupts. This means they can ONLY be played during the Darkness Cycle when monsters are acting. The movement icons on the left for these say "yes" for stationary and "no" for cautious, normal, and aggressive movement. This leads most people (myself included) to assume that it means you can only play this card if you were and remain stationary during the hero cycle. For some reason, MCG decided that you always count as stationary during the Darkness Cycle and that any movement you did or will make in the Hero Cycle isn't counted during this phase of the game. Hence you can always play your interrupts.

I think this is the single most glaring issue I've seen since it pertains to cards, not easily corrected, and seems very counter-intuitive to just assuming movement is universal, regardless of cycle, and writing "yes" "yes" "yes" "yes" down all four movement types.
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Andy Dunks
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Quote:
Ok so for now we just need to ignore the icons for interrupt cards? Is there a way to distinguish interrupt cards easily? Are any of the moment icons or text wrong on the other hero cards?


Correct -ignore the icons. They are easy to distinguish. No other errors on cards.
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Thomas
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Atvar wrote:
Quote:
Ok so for now we just need to ignore the icons for interrupt cards? Is there a way to distinguish interrupt cards easily? Are any of the moment icons or text wrong on the other hero cards?


Correct -ignore the icons. They are easy to distinguish. No other errors on cards.


Are all the movement modifiers on the interrupt cards the same? perhaps Mercs has plans for them down the road.
 
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Tony Pecorelli
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Of course, ignoring them now might apply, but in the future they may have interrupts that let you move. If that is the case, then these interrupts wouldn't be playable if a "movement interrupt" (which doesn't exist as far as I know) was played first.

One thing is for sure, they definitely printed the cards based on the future.
 
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William Cunningham
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Honestly, knowing the reasoning behind the interrupt movement icons on the cards has actually lessened some of my frustration with them. I can get behind the belief that the YES under no movement is because you normally don't move during the Darkness Cycle. If they're all marked YES in that way, then I'm okay with that.

I still wish keywords for equipment use was included on each card, but this particular issue is no longer a real point of contention with me.
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Michael Cozzolino
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LunarSoundDesign wrote:
Endevor wrote:
I don't think they are, reactions and actions are supposed to be used with the movement bonus/malus system.

They just don't apply to Interrupts.


SO why are they on the interrupt cards if they don't apply? Sorry for the confusion.

Movement cards arnt allowed during the darkness cycle. So interrupt cards dont allow movement. I can see expansion interrupts that say you can combine it with a movement card thus granting movement bonus. The icons are correct.
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Michael Callahan
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vazzucious wrote:
LunarSoundDesign wrote:
Endevor wrote:
I don't think they are, reactions and actions are supposed to be used with the movement bonus/malus system.

They just don't apply to Interrupts.


SO why are they on the interrupt cards if they don't apply? Sorry for the confusion.

Movement cards arnt allowed during the darkness cycle. So interrupt cards dont allow movement. I can see expansion interrupts that say you can combine it with a movement card thus granting movement bonus. The icons are correct.


Bingo!
 
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Seth
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The problem is that the rules don't tell you anywhere that movement is tracked separately for the Darkness Cycle versus the Hero Cycle, and that's extremely unintuitive because you can have a Darkness Cycle in the middle of a Hero Cycle, so each player is remembering whether or not they've moved for the purposes of continuing the Hero Cycle once the Darkness is done, but ignoring that thought when deciding whether to play any Interrupts now.

Having typed the longest sentence ever, I think it is giving a huge benefit of the doubt to say the cards are printed correctly to allow for future expansion Interrupts that would cause movement and make the current Interrupts unplayable.

Does that mean we'd have to keep track of whether we moved in the Hero Cycle, then whether we moved in the Darkness Cycle, then revert to the prior tracking because movement caused by Interrupts would not carry back over to the resumed Hero Cycle? This game is sufficiently fiddly without any of that nonsense!
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Donny Behne
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yamato2 wrote:
vazzucious wrote:
LunarSoundDesign wrote:
Endevor wrote:
I don't think they are, reactions and actions are supposed to be used with the movement bonus/malus system.

They just don't apply to Interrupts.


SO why are they on the interrupt cards if they don't apply? Sorry for the confusion.

Movement cards arnt allowed during the darkness cycle. So interrupt cards dont allow movement. I can see expansion interrupts that say you can combine it with a movement card thus granting movement bonus. The icons are correct.


Bingo!


I can understand it's something that will likely come up later, but it's still an incredibly confusing way to handle the card compounded by the complete lack of information about it in the rulebook.
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Jacob Bazar
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Atvar wrote:
The other factor contributing to so much bewilderment is that the game really does contain some completely new - even revolutionary - mechanics, and people are simply having a hard time wrapping their minds around them because they don't fit with our preconceptions about how games should work.


What mechanics are you referring to? I don't have the game yet but from what I've read the game sounds like a new mix of mechanics that have mostly been used before in other games.
 
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Corporal Joe Bauers
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Atvar wrote:
Still, if you simply read the text on the cards and the rules it is clear how to use them.


Read the Brigand card Fool's Gambit and tell us all again how you just have to "simply" read the text on the cards. That's not the worst example but it's the funniest.

Atvar wrote:
Correct -ignore the icons. They are easy to distinguish. No other errors on cards.


Ignoring the wording on every single non-move card, I can still come up with two counter-examples quickly:
(Those movement icons on the left state when you are allowed to use a card... sometimes.)
-Riding the Edge from the soldier deck which by the rules you cannot play unless you have already moved greater than your normal movement speed. (As it has no, no, no, yes).

This was a mistake as the card moves you 3 squares so they chose to use the icons on the left for something different from other cards..

You can see the exact opposite logic used on the Archer's Tumble card, where it is yes, yes, yes, no for the same 3 squares of movement!!

Two different designers? Neither take into account that 3 squares of movement might actually be a Normal movement with titles/gear upgrades as implied in the rulebook...

You can argue that more examples match the Tumble like Suicide Run, so it's only a few cards wrong.

-Devastate: It has yes, no, yes, yes. So you can use it if you
Stand Still
Move normally
Full out sprint
-Just not if you half move.

I checked every other card for a similar example before I blacked out the no with marker. The wording on the PDF supports this being an error.

ATT_Turan wrote:
Having typed the longest sentence ever, I think it is giving a huge benefit of the doubt to say the cards are printed correctly to allow for future expansion Interrupts that would cause movement and make the current Interrupts unplayable.


Huge.

That said, all moving interrupts in the game do say that they don't count as move's.
 
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Jonathan Patterson
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Symmetrical Docking wrote:

-Devastate: It has yes, no, yes, yes. So you can use it if you
Stand Still
Move normally
Full out sprint
-Just not if you half move.

I checked every other card for a similar example before I blacked out the no with marker. The wording on the PDF supports this being an error.


I would be hesitant about assuming that that was a mistake. Just because it is unique does not mean it is wrong. I read the deck reference and I don't see how it supports an assumption that the cautious movement is a misprint. There is an entire thread where this card is discussed, and there are thematic justification to explain the mechanics.
 
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Corporal Joe Bauers
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Fade2Gray wrote:
I would be hesitant about assuming that that was a mistake. Just because it is unique does not mean it is wrong. I read the deck reference and I don't see how it supports an assumption that the cautious movement is a misprint. There is an entire thread where this card is discussed, and there are thematic justification to explain the mechanics.


I was hesitant before I read up, then not even a little.

From the PDF: "If the Soldier moves at least his full movement before performing this attack he gains bonus 1FD"

The justification is more like rationalization.

For it not to be possible if you move at half speed, but still if you hold completely still or if you walk normally or if you sprint like crazy. That seems like an easy jump? To go

"Oh, if he's holding still he's just jumping up into the air or readying his stance or steeling against a charge, and if he's walking casually he's gaining badass points. Just don't let him meander in."

Main Point: Anyways, that would be several dozen cards short of defeating my point against the idea that all other cards were without error...
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