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Sentinel Tactics: The Flame of Freedom» Forums » General

Subject: Anyone else feel that 100$ for the game and some minis is just too much? rss

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Jacob Gowans
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I spent 70$ on Descent 1E at a FLGS just before it went out of print in 2011. With that 70$ I got a slew of tiles, tokens, cards, and something like 50 minis, maybe? For a hundred bucks, I'm getting 8 tiles, who knows how many cards, and right now ... 10 minis.

While I've backed the Sentinels Tactics so far, I just don't think I'll end up being able to justify the prices. It's simply too much.

Your thoughts?
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Chris Byer
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jacobugath wrote:
I spent 70$ on Descent 1E at a FLGS just before it went out of print in 2011. With that 70$ I got a slew of tiles, tokens, cards, and something like 50 minis, maybe? For a hundred bucks, I'm getting 8 tiles, who knows how many cards, and right now ... 10 minis.

While I've backed the Sentinels Tactics so far, I just don't think I'll end up being able to justify the prices. It's simply too much.

Your thoughts?


Nothing I've seen thus far justifies the price, and if this game is just as clunky as the card game it's a solid pass for me.
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Matt Brown
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KS has never been the place to get value unless a miniatures company was involved. I think the system will be decent, but I kind of do yearn for something that stands out more. I understand why they are using normal dice for the game, but it would be much easier if they just used dice that said hit or miss.
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Scott Yost
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jacobugath wrote:
I spent 70$ on Descent 1E at a FLGS just before it went out of print in 2011. With that 70$ I got a slew of tiles, tokens, cards, and something like 50 minis, maybe? For a hundred bucks, I'm getting 8 tiles, who knows how many cards, and right now ... 10 minis.


I'm not going to make the value judgement on Sentinels Tactics games, but we know that games are more expensive now than they were when D1E came out in 2005. D1E for $70 is a fantastic value - I believe we've been told that FFG could not print that game and sell it for that price in today's manufacturing environment. It might be more fair to compare to something like D2E that's being printed today. Heroscape is the same way - it's very hard to find anything like the value of the original Heroscape Master Set in today's market.

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Tyler Franklin
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I'm also feeling the same way... ignoring the stretch goals that get unlocked and just looking at the $80 pledge level... for $80, you only get 9 mini's. Granted, they are all unique, but you only get 9. That just seems really expensive to me. And now you have to pay $20 to get the stretch goals...

I REALLY love G2G and SOTM is probably my favorite game right now, but this does seem a bit overpriced. I'm in for now and I'll see how it plays out, but I agree that $80 for 9 unpainted mini's or even $100 for around 12 seems a little overpriced. Maybe I'll be wowed, though. Sticking with them for now.
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brian
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I've already stated my disappointment elsewhere. I am a huge fan of the card game and have every promo. But this just doesn't seem justified. The game play was lacking at GenCon so if they didn't make any improvements, the game itself won't be worth it.

This seems like a wait and see and get it for half the price later.
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Ryan D
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Also is it just me or is each pledge $10 more for the base game then it is going to retail for. So you are paying more for promos or you dont get the promos at retail. Generally on KS you pay retail or less for the promos/stretch goals because you are forking money over before you can get a product?
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Dérek Boily
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matthean wrote:
I understand why they are using normal dice for the game, but it would be much easier if they just used dice that said hit or miss.


I guess you didn't take the time to take a closer look at the system then... It is simply impossible to use dice that says hit or miss, because hitting or missing depends on the skill you're actually using. Therefore, a 3 is a hit on certain occasion, and a miss on other... Also, dice are used to determine movement, so numbers are somehow required to tell how far you can move (silly, I know...).

And, to the OP, I think that 100$ is totally justifiable. The game is really 40$ (with a 10$ to cover part of the shipping and promos and all that stuff...) and all you need to play is right there. Now, IF you want to upgrade the thing (with the minis), you have the option: 100$. Now consider the fact that they're actually promising to every backer at the 100$ level that every stretch goal will be included in their pledge (including the mini). I wouldn't be surprised if the component listing of the final KS 100$ pledge doubles in temrs of quantity. Also, each mini is unique, meaning that for each figure, they need a new mold, wich is what brings up the cost really...

Yes?
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chris leko
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Also, the way I look at it is the 10 bucks covers the KS extras and shipping.

No one says you need to get the minis, either. I won't add them, and I'm not going to pledge the level to get them. I'd honestly prefer to just have hex shaped chits representing my heroes anyway.
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Nick
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I'm in for now at $100 but I agree that add it stands now it's overpriced. If it massively overfunds (which I think is likely) and we end up with double the minis then I think I can justify it, but otherwise I will probably pass. I just hope they don't add another pledge level if the stretch goals end up adding significantly more minis.
And you are right that it's really the number of unique minis and not the overall quantity that should really dictate the price. Injection molds are not cheap. However, it's also a one time fixed cost so if they're going to make ten thousand copies then the actual price per figure should be relatively low.
We'll see how it progresses I guess.
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Matt Brown
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The more I (re)watch videos the more I get reminded that Greater Than Games are really good at the gateway side of things. I looked at the TacDie system on another game as well, and to be honest, it comes across as just another system. There's nothing all that standoutish about it. It certainly doesn't lead to deeper gameplay. How the cards are used seems rather generic as well. You have a small handful of cards and can use only two. As a gateway, I think this will work fine. I just want something more. I want something that feels like it breaks ground and the system leads to deeper gameplay. I look at Level 7 [Omega Protocol] and I'm in love with the stances and adrenaline mechanic. Sentinel Tactics leaves me going, "Well that's nice." Again, as a gateway I think this will work for many. I just want more.
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Neomaxim Noefaith
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My concern, as a table-top miniatures gamer/painter, is mostly in just how hideous the miniatures seem to be thus far.
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mike
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wish you could just pledge $20 for the stretch goals...
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Brett Hudoba
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Newtruthneomaxim wrote:
My concern, as a table-top miniatures gamer/painter, is mostly in just how hideous the miniatures seem to be thus far.

It's good that they ARE at least offering the miniatures alone as a separate pledge level (I could see people still wanting them if not interested in the base game). However, I wouldn't say they're "hideous"--IMHO they just look "okay" compared to the quality of other Kickstarter offerings out there, and I don't know that many could justify spending $40 on nine average-quality, unpainted miniatures (or yes, potentially more through Stretch Goals, but the point remains).

Until more info is available, though, I have major concerns about what the actual gameplay is like and whether or not minis will even help to improve the experience.

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J Karrde
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igneusmortia wrote:
Also is it just me or is each pledge $10 more for the base game then it is going to retail for. So you are paying more for promos or you dont get the promos at retail. Generally on KS you pay retail or less for the promos/stretch goals because you are forking money over before you can get a product?

The extra $10 is for shipping. This is what they've done for their previous GSF/SotM Kickstarters also.
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Daniel DeMars
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I actually like the miniatures, though that probably has more to do with the fact that I really like SotM and less to do with how good quality they are, as I don't really have much experience with miniatures games in general. That being said, there is no way I'm going to back this at the $100 level. I'm still waiting on some gameplay videos (and maybe some character overviews) to decide whether to back at the $50 level - since I can't really tell whether the game will be any good from the rules in their current form.

And I kind of wish they would have chosen to make the characters in the base game standees instead of flat tokens. If I do end up getting this, I will probably end up making my own standees.
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Matt Brown
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MrLeRobot wrote:
I guess you didn't take the time to take a closer look at the system then... It is simply impossible to use dice that says hit or miss, because hitting or missing depends on the skill you're actually using. Therefore, a 3 is a hit on certain occasion, and a miss on other... Also, dice are used to determine movement, so numbers are somehow required to tell how far you can move (silly, I know...).


They could use colored dice that have the needed amount of hits and misses on them. They could use numbered dice for everything else. Yes, I'm aware that requires a lot of dice and hence why I said I understood why they ended up using normal dice. I have watched any video that is out on the game and a video on another game that uses the system so while I don't 100% know what the system might look like here, I feel like I have a decent grasp of it.
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Paul Watson
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matthean wrote:
MrLeRobot wrote:
I guess you didn't take the time to take a closer look at the system then... It is simply impossible to use dice that says hit or miss, because hitting or missing depends on the skill you're actually using. Therefore, a 3 is a hit on certain occasion, and a miss on other... Also, dice are used to determine movement, so numbers are somehow required to tell how far you can move (silly, I know...).


They could use colored dice that have the needed amount of hits and misses on them. They could use numbered dice for everything else. Yes, I'm aware that requires a lot of dice and hence why I said I understood why they ended up using normal dice. I have watched any video that is out on the game and a video on another game that uses the system so while I don't 100% know what the system might look like here, I feel like I have a decent grasp of it.


No, they really couldn't. Owing to how the defence dice work, you can't just use simple hits or misses. There is a difference between a 1 and a six in terms of how hard it is to defend against.
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J Karrde
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pwatson1974 wrote:
matthean wrote:
MrLeRobot wrote:
I guess you didn't take the time to take a closer look at the system then... It is simply impossible to use dice that says hit or miss, because hitting or missing depends on the skill you're actually using. Therefore, a 3 is a hit on certain occasion, and a miss on other... Also, dice are used to determine movement, so numbers are somehow required to tell how far you can move (silly, I know...).


They could use colored dice that have the needed amount of hits and misses on them. They could use numbered dice for everything else. Yes, I'm aware that requires a lot of dice and hence why I said I understood why they ended up using normal dice. I have watched any video that is out on the game and a video on another game that uses the system so while I don't 100% know what the system might look like here, I feel like I have a decent grasp of it.


No, they really couldn't. Owing to how the defence dice work, you can't just use simple hits or misses. There is a difference between a 1 and a six in terms of how hard it is to defend against.

Plus how range works.
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J Karrde
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xipetotec666 wrote:
I'm also feeling the same way... ignoring the stretch goals that get unlocked and just looking at the $80 pledge level... for $80, you only get 9 mini's. Granted, they are all unique, but you only get 9. That just seems really expensive to me. And now you have to pay $20 to get the stretch goals...

I REALLY love G2G and SOTM is probably my favorite game right now, but this does seem a bit overpriced. I'm in for now and I'll see how it plays out, but I agree that $80 for 9 unpainted mini's or even $100 for around 12 seems a little overpriced. Maybe I'll be wowed, though. Sticking with them for now.

To clarify, you are only paying $30/$50 for the 9/11+ minis. The other $50 is for the actual game itself. Whether that is still overpriced is up to you.

Also, I don't think >G is stopping at just 3 stretch goals. Those are just the three they've shown so far. So while we currently have 11 characters, with a 12th hopefully unlocked soon, I expect to see more stretch goals soon (granted, they might not all be new characters). From the KS page:

$65k - UNLOCKED! - Beacon!
$80k - UNLOCKED - The Operative!
$95k - LOCKED - Bonus Character!
And more to come after that!

wrote:
And now you have to pay $20 to get the stretch goals...

Also, to clarify this part, the extra $20 is only for the miniatures for the stretch goals. You'll still receive the new characters (token, power cards, etc) without bumping up your pledge..
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brian
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To be more clear, $50 gets you the base game and all stretch rewards except miniatures. This is (or was) listed as $40 MSRP.

If you want to upgrade to miniatures for the base game it costs you another $30 and for all stretch goals, another $20. MSRP is still in flux for these.

Obviously, the more stretch goals, the better the deal that final $20 becomes, which may make the overall price that much better. I think we need to get to at least 6 miniatures to match the core game per figure price. But we don't know if >G is going to continue offer more every $15,000 or if they cap it at X figures.
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I looked it over at launch and saw no reason to pony up the kind of cash they're asking. I'll check again when it's about to fund. If it impresses me then, I might pledge.

Of course, I'm no big Sentinels fan, either. I like it and own the base game, but have yet to be motivated to pick up the expansions. If >'s KS campaigns are mainly for superfans, they ain't for me.
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Matt Brown
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pwatson1974 wrote:
No, they really couldn't. Owing to how the defence dice work, you can't just use simple hits or misses. There is a difference between a 1 and a six in terms of how hard it is to defend against.


Yes, they could have and factored in range. Descent sure does. This means they would have skipped on using the TacDice system, but I'm not really sure that is a loss at this point. I would just rather look at the side of a die and know if it is part of a hit or not versus going, "Ok, that is a three. Do we keep that one this time or not?" They did it for the simplicity on their part versus the player.
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Matt Brown
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FYI, if CSI does their standard discount for the base game and miniatures, we are looking at roughly $27.99 for the game and $20.99 for the miniatures pack. This means the promo stuff needs to clear in the area of $50+.
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Andrew
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Im hoping to do the 100 pledge but super dungeon explore is offering better 100 pledge at this time
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