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Subject: orion's tears? rss

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Nathan Atkins
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Seems that the Archer card "Orion's tears" does a separate attack for each ammo, does that mean if I kill 3 individual enemies, I can't pop a treasure,because they weweren't killed in the same attack?
 
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Jarad Bond
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murdernater wrote:
Seems that the Archer card "Orion's tears" does a separate attack for each ammo, does that mean if I kill 3 individual enemies, I can't pop a treasure,because they weweren't killed in the same attack?


Yeah, it is an AoE attack; the dice are all rolled at the same time. Brian has stated that if 3+ are killed by one card, you're golden (like gold and um... treasure).

You announce your targets, discard that many arrows, then you have to roll your dice pool. Assign your dice to each unique TN. So don't include too many types that have different TN's in your attack if you want to be fully successful. If 3 die in that one dice pool roll, then you get a treasure.

Example:

2 crawlers (TN4), a grubber (TN5), and a lair (TN3).

Roll 3D10 (longbow + base): 1,7,8

Assign 8 to the grubber and 7 to the crawlers. You nailed 3 of em but missed the lair. 1 treasure dropped. Or hit the crawlers and the lair, but no treasure drops.

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Ryan Everly
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Okay, I'm confused. The way I played Orion's Tears, I discarded one arrow card for each individual enemy I wanted to target. The way it's explained on the hero card reference at the MCG site, I figured I played it correctly.

Quote:
This action card allows the Archer to discard any number of ammo cards from her quiver to make an attack. The attack can be split or combined any way the Archer chooses.


It sounds to me like you're saying I can target any enemy type within range. Is that correct?
 
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Jarad Bond
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jaray wrote:
Okay, I'm confused. The way I played Orion's Tears, I discarded one arrow card for each individual enemy I wanted to target. The way it's explained on the hero card reference at the MCG site, I figured I played it correctly.

Quote:
This action card allows the Archer to discard any number of ammo cards from her quiver to make an attack. The attack can be split or combined any way the Archer chooses.


It sounds to me like you're saying I can target any enemy type within range. Is that correct?


Use common sense for the arrows - you will spend one arrow per damage* you deal.

So you could fire 3 arrows at a captain and one at a grubber, or hit 4 grubbers instead. You use 4 arrows in either case. But, when you roll dice, you just get one roll, say 2D10 (stick & twine + base). If you're aiming at 4 grubbers, you only need one of those 2D10 to come up with a 5 and you can hit all 4 (using up 4 arrows regardless of whether or not you hit). If you're aiming at the captain and a grubber, you have to assign your two dice to two target numbers (TN 7 and TN 5 for the captain and grubber). If you roll high, you might hit both. If you don't, you may have to decide which target numbers you can hit.

Also, I say target numbers, because if you debuff that captain so that his target number is also TN 5, you only need one of those 2D10 to hit EVERYTHING. (Only one unique TN now: 5). Pg 20 of the rulebook explains it all, with specific attention to the 3rd paragraph of Bullet #4.

* Obviously if your damage is buffed, you'll be doing more than 1 for each arrow that strikes, but the example should explain it.
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logris wrote:
* Obviously if your damage is buffed, you'll be doing more than 1 for each arrow that strikes, but the example should explain it.


Are we 100% sure that's as intended? As Orion's Tears isn't a typical AoE skill, you choose the targets (which don't need to be anywhere close to each other) and do not need to worry about enemies blocking LoS. It came up the other night and while we played it that way, but it seemed over powered. A ranged AoE attack that can do massive damage. I think it should be per arrow too, but were the below combos anticipated?


Vision of the Mark: +1 dam for Attack Actions
Righteous Fury: +1 dam Attack Actions
Unseen Ally: +1 dam for Attack Actions

Find Weakness: +1d10 to single target Attack Actions
Battle Roar: -1 TN with Attack Actions
------

If you have other Heroes your damage can become insane. Even alone the Archer can kill a mini-boss in 1 attack roll.

Base Quiver: 4 arrows + Vision of the Mark = 8 damage
Green Quiver: 5 arrows + Vision of the Mark, Unseen Ally, and Righteous Furry = 4 damage per arrow for a total of 20 damage.

Sure this requires good team work, but man is it strong. And the only thing that you need to do is have a full quiver and 1-2 cards for a ton of damage.
 
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Chad Caughmann
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FALCN120 wrote:
the only thing that you need to do is have a full quiver and 1-2 cards for a ton of damage.


That scenario isn't going to be that common. You could set yourself up by not spending arrows in all your other turns, hold onto Vision of the Mark or Orions Tears. However, to get that going, you'd either have to be pretty lucky, or gimp yourself on your other turns by not spending arrows or using 1 of those 2 cards, when it could potentially be beneficial otherwise.

I don't think it's unreasonable. It plays out the way it seems it's intended. If it was going to happen every other turn, I'd cry fowl...but this is a scenario you might see once a game, if at all. Considering how average the Archer's damage output is outside of Orion's Tears, I don't think it's too much to give her one great combo (that requires 6+ cards to pull off on her own).

And for what it's worth, there are other heroes doing 4 AoE damage with a single card...an Archer getting 8 damage out of 5-6 cards doesn't sound unreasonable.
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thetang22 wrote:
FALCN120 wrote:
the only thing that you need to do is have a full quiver and 1-2 cards for a ton of damage.


That scenario isn't going to be that common. You could set yourself up by not spending arrows in all your other turns, hold onto Vision of the Mark or Orions Tears. However, to get that going, you'd either have to be pretty lucky, or gimp yourself on your other turns by not spending arrows or using 1 of those 2 cards, when it could potentially be beneficial otherwise.

I don't think it's unreasonable. It plays out the way it seems it's intended. If it was going to happen every other turn, I'd cry fowl...but this is a scenario you might see once a game, if at all. Considering how average the Archer's damage output is outside of Orion's Tears, I don't think it's too much to give her one great combo (that requires 6+ cards to pull off on her own).

And for what it's worth, there are other heroes doing 4 AoE damage with a single card...an Archer getting 8 damage out of 5-6 cards doesn't sound unreasonable.


True, I just mention it because it happened maybe twice in my game the other night. With 7 arrow cards in the deck and 2 Retrieves is isn't too hard to pull off considering every card just requires 1 arrow per attack (besides Orion tears) and you need a specific cards to use more than 1 arrow per turn (Fool's Errand, and Tumble, Circumvent, and To the Knee which all have Optional - Ammo).

Also combine that with the green bow to possibly get +1 hand size and the green quiver to load ammo directly into the quiver. Or the blue bow which is a constant +1 hand size and the blue quiver to retrieve 1 ammo from the discard and load one directly into the quiver. I don't see ammo being too big of an issue with the Archer, or really being considered a detriment to this combo. Yes, I did have a good share of "dead" turns waiting for ammo to get into my quiver or only having move and interrupt cards, but in terms of "saving a card" it was pretty simple on most turns (either save Orion's Tears, Kharon's Payment, Fool's Errand, or Vision of the Mark, maybe an interrupt if I was surrounded).

The way I was playing the Archer was to target the Lairs and Captains and let me friend, an Apprentice but this could easily apply to the Soldier or the Acolyte, handle the minions to get maximum treasure drops.

Also I think the only heroes who can kill 4 targets (with a single card not counting gear) is the Apprentice, and that requires both LoS and the minions to be lined up perfectly, both aren't an issue with the Archer. And usually those spells have a shorter range than the bow. Technically the Solider can do the same by playing a Rage card with Harvest of blood, but that still requires the minions to be in perfect order. Also Orion's Tears is one of the few "AoE" cards that can hit 1 target more than once with no other stipulation.

I'm not trying to say that the Archer is overpowered or underpowered or anything, I did like the mechanic. I'm just curious if the intent on Orion's Tears is that each enemy would receive extra damage or not. Because it does seem strong that he can kill a mini-boss in a single attack with only 2 cards (and a full/partially full quiver).
 
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William Cunningham
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Every time I see the title of the card, I read it as "Onion's Tears".
 
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Charlie Theel
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FALCN120 wrote:
thetang22 wrote:
FALCN120 wrote:
the only thing that you need to do is have a full quiver and 1-2 cards for a ton of damage.


That scenario isn't going to be that common. You could set yourself up by not spending arrows in all your other turns, hold onto Vision of the Mark or Orions Tears. However, to get that going, you'd either have to be pretty lucky, or gimp yourself on your other turns by not spending arrows or using 1 of those 2 cards, when it could potentially be beneficial otherwise.

I don't think it's unreasonable. It plays out the way it seems it's intended. If it was going to happen every other turn, I'd cry fowl...but this is a scenario you might see once a game, if at all. Considering how average the Archer's damage output is outside of Orion's Tears, I don't think it's too much to give her one great combo (that requires 6+ cards to pull off on her own).

And for what it's worth, there are other heroes doing 4 AoE damage with a single card...an Archer getting 8 damage out of 5-6 cards doesn't sound unreasonable.


True, I just mention it because it happened maybe twice in my game the other night. With 7 arrow cards in the deck and 2 Retrieves is isn't too hard to pull off considering every card just requires 1 arrow per attack (besides Orion tears) and you need a specific cards to use more than 1 arrow per turn (Fool's Errand, and Tumble, Circumvent, and To the Knee which all have Optional - Ammo).

Also combine that with the green bow to possibly get +1 hand size and the green quiver to load ammo directly into the quiver. Or the blue bow which is a constant +1 hand size and the blue quiver to retrieve 1 ammo from the discard and load one directly into the quiver. I don't see ammo being too big of an issue with the Archer, or really being considered a detriment to this combo. Yes, I did have a good share of "dead" turns waiting for ammo to get into my quiver or only having move and interrupt cards, but in terms of "saving a card" it was pretty simple on most turns (either save Orion's Tears, Kharon's Payment, Fool's Errand, or Vision of the Mark, maybe an interrupt if I was surrounded).

The way I was playing the Archer was to target the Lairs and Captains and let me friend, an Apprentice but this could easily apply to the Soldier or the Acolyte, handle the minions to get maximum treasure drops.

Also I think the only heroes who can kill 4 targets (with a single card not counting gear) is the Apprentice, and that requires both LoS and the minions to be lined up perfectly, both aren't an issue with the Archer. And usually those spells have a shorter range than the bow. Technically the Solider can do the same by playing a Rage card with Harvest of blood, but that still requires the minions to be in perfect order. Also Orion's Tears is one of the few "AoE" cards that can hit 1 target more than once with no other stipulation.

I'm not trying to say that the Archer is overpowered or underpowered or anything, I did like the mechanic. I'm just curious if the intent on Orion's Tears is that each enemy would receive extra damage or not. Because it does seem strong that he can kill a mini-boss in a single attack with only 2 cards (and a full/partially full quiver).


We played Orion's Tears as if each arrow allowed a seperate attack roll (all of your dice) against a single target. That felt correct, but I'm not sure.

Concerning killing a mini-boss with just two cards and a full Quiver - good luck. We had a situation last night where we needed to do 2 more damage to Yardu and the Archer tried to light him up with Orion's Tears and five ammo cards. The problem is Yardu requires two successes to hit him - needing an 8+. The archer didn't land a single damaging shot.
 
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charlest wrote:
FALCN120 wrote:
thetang22 wrote:
FALCN120 wrote:
the only thing that you need to do is have a full quiver and 1-2 cards for a ton of damage.


That scenario isn't going to be that common. You could set yourself up by not spending arrows in all your other turns, hold onto Vision of the Mark or Orions Tears. However, to get that going, you'd either have to be pretty lucky, or gimp yourself on your other turns by not spending arrows or using 1 of those 2 cards, when it could potentially be beneficial otherwise.

I don't think it's unreasonable. It plays out the way it seems it's intended. If it was going to happen every other turn, I'd cry fowl...but this is a scenario you might see once a game, if at all. Considering how average the Archer's damage output is outside of Orion's Tears, I don't think it's too much to give her one great combo (that requires 6+ cards to pull off on her own).

And for what it's worth, there are other heroes doing 4 AoE damage with a single card...an Archer getting 8 damage out of 5-6 cards doesn't sound unreasonable.


True, I just mention it because it happened maybe twice in my game the other night. With 7 arrow cards in the deck and 2 Retrieves is isn't too hard to pull off considering every card just requires 1 arrow per attack (besides Orion tears) and you need a specific cards to use more than 1 arrow per turn (Fool's Errand, and Tumble, Circumvent, and To the Knee which all have Optional - Ammo).

Also combine that with the green bow to possibly get +1 hand size and the green quiver to load ammo directly into the quiver. Or the blue bow which is a constant +1 hand size and the blue quiver to retrieve 1 ammo from the discard and load one directly into the quiver. I don't see ammo being too big of an issue with the Archer, or really being considered a detriment to this combo. Yes, I did have a good share of "dead" turns waiting for ammo to get into my quiver or only having move and interrupt cards, but in terms of "saving a card" it was pretty simple on most turns (either save Orion's Tears, Kharon's Payment, Fool's Errand, or Vision of the Mark, maybe an interrupt if I was surrounded).

The way I was playing the Archer was to target the Lairs and Captains and let me friend, an Apprentice but this could easily apply to the Soldier or the Acolyte, handle the minions to get maximum treasure drops.

Also I think the only heroes who can kill 4 targets (with a single card not counting gear) is the Apprentice, and that requires both LoS and the minions to be lined up perfectly, both aren't an issue with the Archer. And usually those spells have a shorter range than the bow. Technically the Solider can do the same by playing a Rage card with Harvest of blood, but that still requires the minions to be in perfect order. Also Orion's Tears is one of the few "AoE" cards that can hit 1 target more than once with no other stipulation.

I'm not trying to say that the Archer is overpowered or underpowered or anything, I did like the mechanic. I'm just curious if the intent on Orion's Tears is that each enemy would receive extra damage or not. Because it does seem strong that he can kill a mini-boss in a single attack with only 2 cards (and a full/partially full quiver).


We played Orion's Tears as if each arrow allowed a seperate attack roll (all of your dice) against a single target. That felt correct, but I'm not sure.

Concerning killing a mini-boss with just two cards and a full Quiver - good luck. We had a situation last night where we needed to do 2 more damage to Yardu and the Archer tried to light him up with Orion's Tears and five ammo cards. The problem is Yardu requires two successes to hit him - needing an 8+. The archer didn't land a single damaging shot.



I believe that is incorrect. I can't remember where I read it, but I believe you

1) decide how many arrows you wish to spend and which enemies you are targeting (with how many arrows each)

2) make a single attack roll and assign dice with normal AoE targeting (only 1 success required to hit all with the same TN)


As for killing Yardu, with the above rules it is more likely to happen. And I didn't say it was easy, just possible (and still subject to many buffs from other players).
 
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FALCN120 wrote:
charlest wrote:
FALCN120 wrote:
thetang22 wrote:
FALCN120 wrote:
the only thing that you need to do is have a full quiver and 1-2 cards for a ton of damage.


That scenario isn't going to be that common. You could set yourself up by not spending arrows in all your other turns, hold onto Vision of the Mark or Orions Tears. However, to get that going, you'd either have to be pretty lucky, or gimp yourself on your other turns by not spending arrows or using 1 of those 2 cards, when it could potentially be beneficial otherwise.

I don't think it's unreasonable. It plays out the way it seems it's intended. If it was going to happen every other turn, I'd cry fowl...but this is a scenario you might see once a game, if at all. Considering how average the Archer's damage output is outside of Orion's Tears, I don't think it's too much to give her one great combo (that requires 6+ cards to pull off on her own).

And for what it's worth, there are other heroes doing 4 AoE damage with a single card...an Archer getting 8 damage out of 5-6 cards doesn't sound unreasonable.


True, I just mention it because it happened maybe twice in my game the other night. With 7 arrow cards in the deck and 2 Retrieves is isn't too hard to pull off considering every card just requires 1 arrow per attack (besides Orion tears) and you need a specific cards to use more than 1 arrow per turn (Fool's Errand, and Tumble, Circumvent, and To the Knee which all have Optional - Ammo).

Also combine that with the green bow to possibly get +1 hand size and the green quiver to load ammo directly into the quiver. Or the blue bow which is a constant +1 hand size and the blue quiver to retrieve 1 ammo from the discard and load one directly into the quiver. I don't see ammo being too big of an issue with the Archer, or really being considered a detriment to this combo. Yes, I did have a good share of "dead" turns waiting for ammo to get into my quiver or only having move and interrupt cards, but in terms of "saving a card" it was pretty simple on most turns (either save Orion's Tears, Kharon's Payment, Fool's Errand, or Vision of the Mark, maybe an interrupt if I was surrounded).

The way I was playing the Archer was to target the Lairs and Captains and let me friend, an Apprentice but this could easily apply to the Soldier or the Acolyte, handle the minions to get maximum treasure drops.

Also I think the only heroes who can kill 4 targets (with a single card not counting gear) is the Apprentice, and that requires both LoS and the minions to be lined up perfectly, both aren't an issue with the Archer. And usually those spells have a shorter range than the bow. Technically the Solider can do the same by playing a Rage card with Harvest of blood, but that still requires the minions to be in perfect order. Also Orion's Tears is one of the few "AoE" cards that can hit 1 target more than once with no other stipulation.

I'm not trying to say that the Archer is overpowered or underpowered or anything, I did like the mechanic. I'm just curious if the intent on Orion's Tears is that each enemy would receive extra damage or not. Because it does seem strong that he can kill a mini-boss in a single attack with only 2 cards (and a full/partially full quiver).


We played Orion's Tears as if each arrow allowed a seperate attack roll (all of your dice) against a single target. That felt correct, but I'm not sure.

Concerning killing a mini-boss with just two cards and a full Quiver - good luck. We had a situation last night where we needed to do 2 more damage to Yardu and the Archer tried to light him up with Orion's Tears and five ammo cards. The problem is Yardu requires two successes to hit him - needing an 8+. The archer didn't land a single damaging shot.



I believe that is incorrect. I can't remember where I read it, but I believe you

1) decide how many arrows you wish to spend and which enemies you are targeting (with how many arrows each)

2) make a single attack roll and assign dice with normal AoE targeting (only 1 success required to hit all with the same TN)


As for killing Yardu, with the above rules it is more likely to happen. And I didn't say it was easy, just possible (and still subject to many buffs from other players).


So if I used 5 arrows against Yardu, how would that work? Does each arrow grant an extra D10 to the roll?

I don't get the decide which enemies to attack and with how many arrows each.

Say I want to attack Yardu with 3 arrows and 2 Grubbers with 1 arrow each. What would I roll?
 
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charlest wrote:
FALCN120 wrote:
charlest wrote:
FALCN120 wrote:
thetang22 wrote:
FALCN120 wrote:
the only thing that you need to do is have a full quiver and 1-2 cards for a ton of damage.


That scenario isn't going to be that common. You could set yourself up by not spending arrows in all your other turns, hold onto Vision of the Mark or Orions Tears. However, to get that going, you'd either have to be pretty lucky, or gimp yourself on your other turns by not spending arrows or using 1 of those 2 cards, when it could potentially be beneficial otherwise.

I don't think it's unreasonable. It plays out the way it seems it's intended. If it was going to happen every other turn, I'd cry fowl...but this is a scenario you might see once a game, if at all. Considering how average the Archer's damage output is outside of Orion's Tears, I don't think it's too much to give her one great combo (that requires 6+ cards to pull off on her own).

And for what it's worth, there are other heroes doing 4 AoE damage with a single card...an Archer getting 8 damage out of 5-6 cards doesn't sound unreasonable.


True, I just mention it because it happened maybe twice in my game the other night. With 7 arrow cards in the deck and 2 Retrieves is isn't too hard to pull off considering every card just requires 1 arrow per attack (besides Orion tears) and you need a specific cards to use more than 1 arrow per turn (Fool's Errand, and Tumble, Circumvent, and To the Knee which all have Optional - Ammo).

Also combine that with the green bow to possibly get +1 hand size and the green quiver to load ammo directly into the quiver. Or the blue bow which is a constant +1 hand size and the blue quiver to retrieve 1 ammo from the discard and load one directly into the quiver. I don't see ammo being too big of an issue with the Archer, or really being considered a detriment to this combo. Yes, I did have a good share of "dead" turns waiting for ammo to get into my quiver or only having move and interrupt cards, but in terms of "saving a card" it was pretty simple on most turns (either save Orion's Tears, Kharon's Payment, Fool's Errand, or Vision of the Mark, maybe an interrupt if I was surrounded).

The way I was playing the Archer was to target the Lairs and Captains and let me friend, an Apprentice but this could easily apply to the Soldier or the Acolyte, handle the minions to get maximum treasure drops.

Also I think the only heroes who can kill 4 targets (with a single card not counting gear) is the Apprentice, and that requires both LoS and the minions to be lined up perfectly, both aren't an issue with the Archer. And usually those spells have a shorter range than the bow. Technically the Solider can do the same by playing a Rage card with Harvest of blood, but that still requires the minions to be in perfect order. Also Orion's Tears is one of the few "AoE" cards that can hit 1 target more than once with no other stipulation.

I'm not trying to say that the Archer is overpowered or underpowered or anything, I did like the mechanic. I'm just curious if the intent on Orion's Tears is that each enemy would receive extra damage or not. Because it does seem strong that he can kill a mini-boss in a single attack with only 2 cards (and a full/partially full quiver).


We played Orion's Tears as if each arrow allowed a seperate attack roll (all of your dice) against a single target. That felt correct, but I'm not sure.

Concerning killing a mini-boss with just two cards and a full Quiver - good luck. We had a situation last night where we needed to do 2 more damage to Yardu and the Archer tried to light him up with Orion's Tears and five ammo cards. The problem is Yardu requires two successes to hit him - needing an 8+. The archer didn't land a single damaging shot.



I believe that is incorrect. I can't remember where I read it, but I believe you

1) decide how many arrows you wish to spend and which enemies you are targeting (with how many arrows each)

2) make a single attack roll and assign dice with normal AoE targeting (only 1 success required to hit all with the same TN)


As for killing Yardu, with the above rules it is more likely to happen. And I didn't say it was easy, just possible (and still subject to many buffs from other players).


So if I used 5 arrows against Yardu, how would that work? Does each arrow grant an extra D10 to the roll?

I don't get the decide which enemies to attack and with how many arrows each.

Say I want to attack Yardu with 3 arrows and 2 Grubbers with 1 arrow each. What would I roll?


(Assuming I am correct)

You would spend your 5 arrows, then roll a single attack:

1d10 (base) + 1/2/3 d10 (based on your bow) + #d10 based on buffs from yourself or other heroes.

So if you just had the base brown bow: you'd only roll 2d10 (and to hit Yardu you'd need 8+ on both die to hit him (for 3 damage) and wouldn't be able to also hit the Grubbers)
 
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FALCN120 wrote:
charlest wrote:
FALCN120 wrote:
charlest wrote:
FALCN120 wrote:
thetang22 wrote:
FALCN120 wrote:
the only thing that you need to do is have a full quiver and 1-2 cards for a ton of damage.


That scenario isn't going to be that common. You could set yourself up by not spending arrows in all your other turns, hold onto Vision of the Mark or Orions Tears. However, to get that going, you'd either have to be pretty lucky, or gimp yourself on your other turns by not spending arrows or using 1 of those 2 cards, when it could potentially be beneficial otherwise.

I don't think it's unreasonable. It plays out the way it seems it's intended. If it was going to happen every other turn, I'd cry fowl...but this is a scenario you might see once a game, if at all. Considering how average the Archer's damage output is outside of Orion's Tears, I don't think it's too much to give her one great combo (that requires 6+ cards to pull off on her own).

And for what it's worth, there are other heroes doing 4 AoE damage with a single card...an Archer getting 8 damage out of 5-6 cards doesn't sound unreasonable.


True, I just mention it because it happened maybe twice in my game the other night. With 7 arrow cards in the deck and 2 Retrieves is isn't too hard to pull off considering every card just requires 1 arrow per attack (besides Orion tears) and you need a specific cards to use more than 1 arrow per turn (Fool's Errand, and Tumble, Circumvent, and To the Knee which all have Optional - Ammo).

Also combine that with the green bow to possibly get +1 hand size and the green quiver to load ammo directly into the quiver. Or the blue bow which is a constant +1 hand size and the blue quiver to retrieve 1 ammo from the discard and load one directly into the quiver. I don't see ammo being too big of an issue with the Archer, or really being considered a detriment to this combo. Yes, I did have a good share of "dead" turns waiting for ammo to get into my quiver or only having move and interrupt cards, but in terms of "saving a card" it was pretty simple on most turns (either save Orion's Tears, Kharon's Payment, Fool's Errand, or Vision of the Mark, maybe an interrupt if I was surrounded).

The way I was playing the Archer was to target the Lairs and Captains and let me friend, an Apprentice but this could easily apply to the Soldier or the Acolyte, handle the minions to get maximum treasure drops.

Also I think the only heroes who can kill 4 targets (with a single card not counting gear) is the Apprentice, and that requires both LoS and the minions to be lined up perfectly, both aren't an issue with the Archer. And usually those spells have a shorter range than the bow. Technically the Solider can do the same by playing a Rage card with Harvest of blood, but that still requires the minions to be in perfect order. Also Orion's Tears is one of the few "AoE" cards that can hit 1 target more than once with no other stipulation.

I'm not trying to say that the Archer is overpowered or underpowered or anything, I did like the mechanic. I'm just curious if the intent on Orion's Tears is that each enemy would receive extra damage or not. Because it does seem strong that he can kill a mini-boss in a single attack with only 2 cards (and a full/partially full quiver).


We played Orion's Tears as if each arrow allowed a seperate attack roll (all of your dice) against a single target. That felt correct, but I'm not sure.

Concerning killing a mini-boss with just two cards and a full Quiver - good luck. We had a situation last night where we needed to do 2 more damage to Yardu and the Archer tried to light him up with Orion's Tears and five ammo cards. The problem is Yardu requires two successes to hit him - needing an 8+. The archer didn't land a single damaging shot.



I believe that is incorrect. I can't remember where I read it, but I believe you

1) decide how many arrows you wish to spend and which enemies you are targeting (with how many arrows each)

2) make a single attack roll and assign dice with normal AoE targeting (only 1 success required to hit all with the same TN)


As for killing Yardu, with the above rules it is more likely to happen. And I didn't say it was easy, just possible (and still subject to many buffs from other players).


So if I used 5 arrows against Yardu, how would that work? Does each arrow grant an extra D10 to the roll?

I don't get the decide which enemies to attack and with how many arrows each.

Say I want to attack Yardu with 3 arrows and 2 Grubbers with 1 arrow each. What would I roll?


(Assuming I am correct)

You would spend your 5 arrows, then roll a single attack:

1d10 (base) + 1/2/3 d10 (based on your bow) + #d10 based on buffs from yourself or other heroes.

So if you just had the base brown bow: you'd only roll 2d10 (and to hit Yardu you'd need 8+ on both die to hit him (for 3 damage) and wouldn't be able to also hit the Grubbers)


That's why I hope you're wrong. Basically using those rules, you can fire a huge Volley at a single target and it's worthless.

Also, this ability is pretty useless in the base game - unless you happen to be on a tile with Both minion types, Captains, and a Mini-Boss/Boss. Literally, the only time when you'd want to unload five arrows is if you had ALL of the above (including Captains of different types). Seems seriously lacking and very weak. Think we will play it as we did previously, which makes it slightly better.

Also - it was confirmed the +1 attack item for the Acolyte (or was it Apprentice? Can't remember) actually lets you roll your whole set of dice again. This was confirmed by Kenny on the Myth forums. Since Orion's Tears uses the word "attack", I think it should work the same way.
 
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charlest wrote:
FALCN120 wrote:
(Assuming I am correct)

You would spend your 5 arrows, then roll a single attack:

1d10 (base) + 1/2/3 d10 (based on your bow) + #d10 based on buffs from yourself or other heroes.

So if you just had the base brown bow: you'd only roll 2d10 (and to hit Yardu you'd need 8+ on both die to hit him (for 3 damage) and wouldn't be able to also hit the Grubbers)


That's why I hope you're wrong. Basically using those rules, you can fire a huge Volley at a single target and it's worthless.

Also, this ability is pretty useless in the base game - unless you happen to be on a tile with Both minion types, Captains, and a Mini-Boss/Boss. Literally, the only time when you'd want to unload five arrows is if you had ALL of the above (including Captains of different types). Seems seriously lacking and very weak. Think we will play it as we did previously, which makes it slightly better.


I don't understand what you're saying.

You could easily use this on turn 2 (with the brown bow and lots of arrows on turn 1) and fire 4 arrows into a Lair only needing to roll a 3+ on one of two dice. Same thing applies to a Captain, with 3 Arrows and it is equivalent to 1 Arrow with Kharon's Payment (minus the FD). Having multiple enemies with different TN actually makes this card a bit weaker as you need to get more successes to hit all intended targets.

I'd also say the only useless card in the base game is the Apprentice's "Arcane Sigil". Unless a quest that I've missed can Curse a hero, this card has no point because Heroes can never be Cursed.


Quote:
Also - it was confirmed the +1 attack item for the Acolyte (or was it Apprentice? Can't remember) actually lets you roll your whole set of dice again. This was confirmed by Kenny on the Myth forums. Since Orion's Tears uses the word "attack", I think it should work the same way.


I'm going off the text of the card and Hero Deck Reference Sheet (and a vague memory of seeing my interpretation on the forum posted by someone else):

Quote:
Orion’s Tears
Requires Ammo. Fires volley at targets in weapon range. 1 enemy
per Ammo card.
This Action card allows the Archer to discard any number of Ammo
cards from her quiver to make an attack. The attack can be split or
combined in any way the Archer chooses. The Archer gains bonus b
based on whether or not she moved this Hero Cycle.


It says that you make "an attack", thus only 1 roll. That isn't the same as the Wand's +1 attack bonus. Or the Soldier's Riding the Edge with specifically states that you make 1 attack per target. I'd say it's closer to the Brigand's Suicide Run (though Orion's tears doesn't state that it's only 1 attack roll explicitly like it does for Suicide Run).



-------

But I just thought of another interpretation that's in-between the two extremes: If Orion's Tears gets a +1 damage buff

1) +1 damage to each arrow
2) +1 damage to each TN targeted
3) +1 damage to the entire attack

In cases 2 and 3, I'd guess you'd assign the +1 damage after you roll and are assigning your dice pool to TNs.

Option 1 lets 4 arrows do 8 damage to one target.
Option 2 lets 4 arrows do 5 damage to one target or 4 damage to one TN group and 2 damage to another group.
Option 3 lets 4 arrows do 5 damage to one target or spread out up to 4 targets (chosen before the attack roll).
 
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I misunderstood part of your post, so you're saying the number of arrows is the amount of damage to the target. I see, interesting and then it's not useless.
 
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FALCN120 wrote:
I'm going off the text of the card and Hero Deck Reference Sheet (and a vague memory of seeing my interpretation on the forum posted by someone else):

Quote:
Orion’s Tears
Requires Ammo. Fires volley at targets in weapon range. 1 enemy
per Ammo card.
This Action card allows the Archer to discard any number of Ammo
cards from her quiver to make an attack. The attack can be split or
combined in any way the Archer chooses. The Archer gains bonus b
based on whether or not she moved this Hero Cycle.


It says that you make "an attack", thus only 1 roll. That isn't the same as the Wand's +1 attack bonus. Or the Soldier's Riding the Edge with specifically states that you make 1 attack per target. I'd say it's closer to the Brigand's Suicide Run (though Orion's tears doesn't state that it's only 1 attack roll explicitly like it does for Suicide Run).


Is the hero reference sheet meant to errata the cards as written? If so, I wish they'd make that clear. Orion's Tears as written states:

Orion's Tears card text wrote:

Orion's Tears
1 damage, Range: Weapon
Requires - Ammo
Fires a volley of attacks at targets in weapon range. 1 attack per Ammo card.


That's a big difference, but I can't tell if that's the card reference sheet being riddled with inconsistencies/errors, or if that's them purposely errata'ing the meaning of the card.
 
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FALCN120 wrote:
charlest wrote:
FALCN120 wrote:
(Assuming I am correct)

You would spend your 5 arrows, then roll a single attack:

1d10 (base) + 1/2/3 d10 (based on your bow) + #d10 based on buffs from yourself or other heroes.

So if you just had the base brown bow: you'd only roll 2d10 (and to hit Yardu you'd need 8+ on both die to hit him (for 3 damage) and wouldn't be able to also hit the Grubbers)


That's why I hope you're wrong. Basically using those rules, you can fire a huge Volley at a single target and it's worthless.

Also, this ability is pretty useless in the base game - unless you happen to be on a tile with Both minion types, Captains, and a Mini-Boss/Boss. Literally, the only time when you'd want to unload five arrows is if you had ALL of the above (including Captains of different types). Seems seriously lacking and very weak. Think we will play it as we did previously, which makes it slightly better.


I don't understand what you're saying.

You could easily use this on turn 2 (with the brown bow and lots of arrows on turn 1) and fire 4 arrows into a Lair only needing to roll a 3+ on one of two dice. Same thing applies to a Captain, with 3 Arrows and it is equivalent to 1 Arrow with Kharon's Payment (minus the FD). Having multiple enemies with different TN actually makes this card a bit weaker as you need to get more successes to hit all intended targets.

I'd also say the only useless card in the base game is the Apprentice's "Arcane Sigil". Unless a quest that I've missed can Curse a hero, this card has no point because Heroes can never be Cursed.


Quote:
Also - it was confirmed the +1 attack item for the Acolyte (or was it Apprentice? Can't remember) actually lets you roll your whole set of dice again. This was confirmed by Kenny on the Myth forums. Since Orion's Tears uses the word "attack", I think it should work the same way.


I'm going off the text of the card and Hero Deck Reference Sheet (and a vague memory of seeing my interpretation on the forum posted by someone else):

Quote:
Orion’s Tears
Requires Ammo. Fires volley at targets in weapon range. 1 enemy
per Ammo card.
This Action card allows the Archer to discard any number of Ammo
cards from her quiver to make an attack. The attack can be split or
combined in any way the Archer chooses. The Archer gains bonus b
based on whether or not she moved this Hero Cycle.


It says that you make "an attack", thus only 1 roll. That isn't the same as the Wand's +1 attack bonus. Or the Soldier's Riding the Edge with specifically states that you make 1 attack per target. I'd say it's closer to the Brigand's Suicide Run (though Orion's tears doesn't state that it's only 1 attack roll explicitly like it does for Suicide Run).



-------

But I just thought of another interpretation that's in-between the two extremes: If Orion's Tears gets a +1 damage buff

1) +1 damage to each arrow
2) +1 damage to each TN targeted
3) +1 damage to the entire attack

In cases 2 and 3, I'd guess you'd assign the +1 damage after you roll and are assigning your dice pool to TNs.

Option 1 lets 4 arrows do 8 damage to one target.
Option 2 lets 4 arrows do 5 damage to one target or 4 damage to one TN group and 2 damage to another group.
Option 3 lets 4 arrows do 5 damage to one target or spread out up to 4 targets (chosen before the attack roll).


Well I dont have the card in front of me, but it does say "1 damage" on it. So I would assume its turns the 1 into a 2. So each arrow does 2. Orion's Tears is supposed to be really good, as it is also an upgrade (novice) card.
 
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breegull wrote:
[q="FALCN120"]I'm going off the text of the card and Hero Deck Reference Sheet (and a vague memory of seeing my interpretation on the forum posted by someone else):

Quote:
Orion’s Tears
Requires Ammo. Fires volley at targets in weapon range. 1 enemy
per Ammo card.
This Action card allows the Archer to discard any number of Ammo
cards from her quiver to make an attack. The attack can be split or
combined in any way the Archer chooses. The Archer gains bonus b
based on whether or not she moved this Hero Cycle.


It says that you make "an attack", thus only 1 roll. That isn't the same as the Wand's +1 attack bonus. Or the Soldier's Riding the Edge with specifically states that you make 1 attack per target. I'd say it's closer to the Brigand's Suicide Run (though Orion's tears doesn't state that it's only 1 attack roll explicitly like it does for Suicide Run).


Is the hero reference sheet meant to errata the cards as written? If so, I wish they'd make that clear. Orion's Tears as written states:

Orion's Tears card text]
Orion's Tears
1 damage, Range: Weapon
Requires - Ammo
Fires a volley of attacks at targets in weapon range. 1 attack per Ammo card.[/q wrote:


That's a big difference, but I can't tell if that's the card reference sheet being riddled with inconsistencies/errors, or if that's them purposely errata'ing the meaning of the card.


I would like an offical answer, but for now I prefer the one attack. It's much faster and the card sounds like you are shooting the arrows into the air and letting them rain down on the enemies (tears). It would be wierd one a time. I did not know that you could hit the same target multiple times. Thanks
 
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olimar44 wrote:
Is the hero reference sheet meant to errata the cards as written? If so, I wish they'd make that clear. Orion's Tears as written states:

[Orion's Tears card text]
Orion's Tears
1 damage, Range: Weapon
Requires - Ammo
Fires a volley of attacks at targets in weapon range. 1 attack per Ammo card.


I wouldn't put a lot of stock in the Hero Reference yet. It was written by third party who got a lot wrong, then "reviewed" by MERCS who fixed some things, but that doesn't instill 100% confidence yet.

I think all these are good points. Just when you think you might get a handle on things...

What about the soldier's straight line rush card? I thought it said one attack on each enemy you pass through. (I don't have the game in front of me)

Where Orion's Tears differs in the AoE is that the reference says you can "split and combine" and no other AoE lets you damage an enemy more than once. There's no way to tell, honestly, until we get that official answer.

The Archer could be viewed as a sniper, doing massive damage on one shot that might miss. Then have no arrows. That might put them on par with the Brigand who can do huge damage up close, but doesn't need arrows. Or maybe the Archer should just be doing lots of damage (only one arrow per target, perhaps), and we are interpreting everything wrong.
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Rob H
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Was there ever a definitive answer on how Orion's Tears interacts with other cards. Namely if you have a quiver full of arrows and use Vision of the Mark do you get 2 damage per arrow that you can pile into a single boss or mini-boss? That could be, what 8 damage to one target on a sort of easy to do combo mid-tile.

I'm looking at the 2.0 cards and it seems like VotM adds 1 damage to an attack action and OT does 1 damage as an attack action with a ranged weapon to as many targets as there are readied ammo cards. This seems like the only thing blocking the combo is if the arrows can't target the same target, but I'm pretty sure from elsewhere that they are stated as able to do as much.
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chaplin717 wrote:
Was there ever a definitive answer on how Orion's Tears interacts with other cards. Namely if you have a quiver full of arrows and use Vision of the Mark do you get 2 damage per arrow that you can pile into a single boss or mini-boss? That could be, what 8 damage to one target on a sort of easy to do combo mid-tile.

I'm looking at the 2.0 cards and it seems like VotM adds 1 damage to an attack action and OT does 1 damage as an attack action with a ranged weapon to as many targets as there are readied ammo cards. This seems like the only thing blocking the combo is if the arrows can't target the same target, but I'm pretty sure from elsewhere that they are stated as able to do as much.


I think this thread answers your question.

Looks like it's +X damage to the target, not per arrow.
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Thanks. I was considering moving the question to the general thread as there is not much traffic here. I still have a lot of questions on captain abilities, buffs, and boss/ mini-boss 1.0 card use as I am the most senior Myth player and have nobody to ask. I'm not sure where to ask on those.

To the Orion's Tears issue, that link settled it as its straight from Megacon. I'm surprised that if they made that ruling in February that the June card doesn't have some line about 'extra damage from other abilities only applies once if more than one ammo is used on a single target'. It would seem to knock out lots of sources of questions along with the worry about if Orion's Tears can even hit a single target. I guess this shows that I'm new to this community.

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