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Subject: I'm on the fence - is this game too random? rss

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Michael Weber
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I am really on the fence about this one. I really love the theme and the art style. The game is almost worth buying just for the resort idea! Now I really am into deckbuilding games as well, so what is keeping me from instant-back this game?

It's the monsters. From what I can tell from the excellent videos for this game, the mosters seem to be way to random for my taste. Don't get me wrong, I lile randomness in games, but with monsters, it is the question of

* whether or not I have an otherwise useless peon in my hand (random)
* whether or not a monster comes out at all (random)
* whether or not this monster attacks me at all (random)
* which of my resort spaces is going to be attacked

The problem is that none of the above is really under my control. So even IF I buy a hero to protect my precious guests in my resort spaces, I could still end up with a monster that eats up my undefended resort spaces (just because I placed m hero somewhere else)

How do you feel about this?

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Craig.
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Mixo wrote:
I am really on the fence about this one. I really love the theme and the art style. The game is almost worth buying just for the resort idea! Now I really am into deckbuilding games as well, so what is keeping me from instant-back this game?

It's the monsters. From what I can tell from the excellent videos for this game, the mosters seem to be way to random for my taste. Don't get me wrong, I lile randomness in games, but with monsters, it is the question of

* whether or not I have an otherwise useless peon in my hand (random)
* whether or not a monster comes out at all (random)
* whether or not this monster attacks me at all (random)
* which of my resort spaces is going to be attacked

The problem is that none of the above is really under my control. So even IF I buy a hero to protect my precious guests in my resort spaces, I could still end up with a monster that eats up my undefended resort spaces (just because I placed m hero somewhere else)

How do you feel about this?

Yes, the artwork is fantastic and the theme is quite fun and well-integrated with the mechanisms. One thing to note is that this isn't a pure deck-building game. It is more of a deck evolution game. Your deck with change over time as you train your starting workers and you may add a few basic workers back in as well as sacrifice some Lazy Peons, but it more or less stay the same size. The deck of workers isn't necessarily the engine of the game on their own. They are used to staff attractions to control the amount of Flair and Gold received each turn and unlock attraction abilities. They can also be discarded for some actions, but the point is that the "deck-building" mechanism of this game is not like that of Dominion or similar deck-building games. I just wanted to make sure that was clarified.

As far as randomness goes, there is *some* in the game in the items you listed (it is a card game afterall). However, you can make choices to mitigate it. If not a lot of heroes or tourists are lured from the dock, the the chance that a monster may come is somewhat reduced. When a monster does come, it will attack the player with most tourists or heroes with ties being broken by the start player (the attack would go to the start player if he's involved in the tie or move from him in player order). Therefore, you can plan and set yourself up to be attacked or not since the number of tourists and heroes in play by other players is all public info. Another player may get attacked and then his number of tourists and/or heroes change so that he no longer has the most and that might put you in danger, but the point is that the attacks aren't *completely* random. Also, heroes can be moved into or out of the attraction being attacked (if there is an empty attraction spot available), so you aren't stuck with where you initially put the hero.

Here's a quick recap of the items you listed:

* whether or not I have an otherwise useless peon in my hand (random) -- It's about a 23% chance that you'll have a Lazy Peon in your hand if you still have 3 and 13 cards total; that decreases as you sacrifice them or your deck size increases.

* whether or not a monster comes out at all (random) -- Chances can be reduced if not many Tourists/Heroes are lured from the dock that turn.

* whether or not this monster attacks me at all (random) -- You can see which players have the most Tourists and Heroes which determines who the first monster will attack; ties are broken beginning with starting player (also known).

* which of my resort spaces is going to be attacked -- Heroes can be moved to an undefended location to assist, if desired.

Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any other questions and I'll do my best to offer my help/insight.
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Michael Weber
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shigadeyo wrote:
[q="Mixo"]

* whether or not this monster attacks me at all (random) -- You can see which players have the most Tourists and Heroes which determines who the first monster will attack; ties are broken beginning with starting player (also known).

* which of my resort spaces is going to be attacked -- Heroes can be moved to an undefended location to assist, if desired.

Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any other questions and I'll do my best to offer my help/insight.


Thanks for your lengthy reply - I really appreciate it.

I just stated that I loved deck builders to make clear that I do not mind the randomness of the card draw. I do understand that the number of cards in your deck does not change that much over the course of the game.

From Tox's video it was my understanding that the monsters attack a random resort - it may be one with the most tourist or one with the least tourists. If Tox was right here, then it would be too random for me on the other hand if it is ALWAYS the MOST heroes, money or any other resource, then yes, that would be sufficient control for me.

Also regarding the moving heroes I thought that a hero may DODGE to another location if HIS location is under attack. Can a hero really move to the attacked location? That would change things a quite a bit as well.
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Craig.
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Mixo wrote:
shigadeyo wrote:
[q="Mixo"]

* whether or not this monster attacks me at all (random) -- You can see which players have the most Tourists and Heroes which determines who the first monster will attack; ties are broken beginning with starting player (also known).

* which of my resort spaces is going to be attacked -- Heroes can be moved to an undefended location to assist, if desired.

Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any other questions and I'll do my best to offer my help/insight.


Thanks for your lengthy reply - I really appreciate it.

I just stated that I loved deck builders to make clear that I do not mind the randomness of the card draw. I do understand that the number of cards in your deck does not change that much over the course of the game.

From Tox's video it was my understanding that the monsters attack a random resort - it may be one with the most tourist or one with the least tourists. If Tox was right here, then it would be too random for me on the other hand if it is ALWAYS the MOST heroes, money or any other resource, then yes, that would be sufficient control for me.

Also regarding the moving heroes I thought that a hero may DODGE to another location if HIS location is under attack. Can a hero really move to the attacked location? That would change things a quite a bit as well.

Attacks are prescribed as either: MOST TOURISTS or MOST HEROES. I believe that it's currently a 5:1 ratio of monsters that attack most Tourists or Heroes. It *might* change a bit (I'd like to see that Dragons target most gold), but it would still be that the majority of attacks are targeting most Tourists. Regarding moving Heroes, you can move a Hero to dodge to defend an Attraction. Please refer to Phase III - Resolve an Attack! - Items 4 and 5 of the Rule Book (this was posted in Update #3 of the Kickstarter project):

Epic Resort Rule Book wrote:
Resolve an Attack!
1. Reveal the top card of the Monster Deck.
2. The revealed Monster attacks the player as indicated, ties are broken clockwise beginning with the
Harbormaster (Start Player).
Note: Even if the Harbormaster changed players during Phase II, it is the current Harbormaster that
breaks ties.
3. The bottom of the Attack! card indicates which Attraction is attacked by the monster. Variant: The
player to the left of the defending player chooses which Attraction at the defending player’s resort the
Monster is attacking.
4. If a Hero is present - The defending player may choose to have the Hero Defend against the Attack! or
dodge by moving away to an empty attraction.
5. If a Hero is not present - The defending player may choose to move a Hero from a different attraction to
defend the one being attacked.
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Dustin Crenshaw
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Having played the game several times, I do not think it's to random at all. In prototype form, monsters either attack who has the most heroes or who has the most tourist... that's it.
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Rose
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Also, in a potentially meaner, but more interactive version, your opponent can decide which resort to attack.
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