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Subject: Base Faith and Rage rss

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Brad Richardson
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There have been plenty of questions over the acolyte's faith, but one thing is bothering me. It seems that the idea of "1 base faith" is a bit too powerful. The only place I've seen base faith mentioned is the deck reference. The rulebook never stated he has a base faith. This base faith is only mentioned in the explanation of hand of the father.

However, I interpreted that as the acolyte will always have 1 faith minimum because it's on the card. If he truly has a base faith of 1, then with a single card he can perform 6 points of healing, two buffs for all rolls, and only takes the 4 that penalty. With the amount of faith cards, plus the pray option it's likely he's buffing almost everyone all the time.

That just seems to make cards like hand of the father and righteous fury too easy to fully power.

The only explanation I see for him having base faith is because it's his symbol. By that same standard, the soldier also has one base rage.
 
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Endevor Rovedne
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Quote:
The rulebook never stated he has a base faith.


Page 22, Dice Pool : Starting Faith 1.
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Jarad Bond
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BRich83 wrote:
There have been plenty of questions over the acolyte's faith, but one thing is bothering me. It seems that the idea of "1 base faith" is a bit too powerful. The only place I've seen base faith mentioned is the deck reference. The rulebook never stated he has a base faith. This base faith is only mentioned in the explanation of hand of the father.

However, I interpreted that as the acolyte will always have 1 faith minimum because it's on the card. If he truly has a base faith of 1, then with a single card he can perform 6 points of healing, two buffs for all rolls, and only takes the 4 that penalty. With the amount of faith cards, plus the pray option it's likely he's buffing almost everyone all the time.

That just seems to make cards like hand of the father and righteous fury too easy to fully power.

The only explanation I see for him having base faith is because it's his symbol. By that same standard, the soldier also has one base rage.


I know for certain there is "Faith: 1" printed on the character token (not the metal one, only the cardboard one). There has been a lot of discussion confirming base faith and the faith you get if the card you are playing is itself a "Faith" card. If "Faith" is printed on the card you are playing, you have a minimum of 2 Faith (base + the card you're playing). Also, it's been said that items can potentially grant more base faith. So, yeah, the acolyte can pretty much heal it all or buff everyone when cards come around.

That said, there have been a couple games that the acolyte had healing cards when everyone was full, then didn't have them for many HC's when the party was getting more and more damaged (even had to use a Vit potion once), so we were all extremely relieved when the healing came around again. I think the Acolyte is pretty well balanced so far. The rest of us were running around destroying things faster than the Acolyte was, so it works out in the end and everyone is having fun.

I don't think the Soldier has any base rage though.
 
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Brad Richardson
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Dangit, as many times as I've looked through the rule book I didn't remember I'd seen that. I also hasn't looked at the acolyte cardboard token, just the metal one. Thanks for clearing that up. It looks like then he's the only hero with a base stat.
 
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Wallace MacBix
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BRich83 wrote:
Dangit, as many times as I've looked through the rule book I didn't remember I'd seen that. I also hasn't looked at the acolyte cardboard token, just the metal one. Thanks for clearing that up. It looks like then he's the only hero with a base stat.


Yep, he's the special one. As for his strengths, he really is almost required for any group that wants to keep playing. He's the only one who can heal (besides the Apprentice's self heal) and the only one that can deal with all conditions. Sure you can use HP potions and anti-venom potions, but those are pretty limited, only 1/3 of the merchants sell 1 HP potion each and there's only 2 HP potions in the 30 card white item deck, which gets reshuffled after each draw so your odds are always low.
 
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Brad Richardson
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Well this makes my decision of which hero to play on Saturday a bit easier.
 
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Tony Pecorelli
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The Acolyte didn't initially have a base Faith printed on his token, which is why it is missing on the metal one. I think originally it was on his Brown off-hand item. I don't know exactly why they moved it, but it was probably due to item destruction which could leave the Acolyte with no Faith and maybe this play-tested poorly.
 
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Eric
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FALCN120 wrote:
BRich83 wrote:
Dangit, as many times as I've looked through the rule book I didn't remember I'd seen that. I also hasn't looked at the acolyte cardboard token, just the metal one. Thanks for clearing that up. It looks like then he's the only hero with a base stat.


Yep, he's the special one. As for his strengths, he really is almost required for any group that wants to keep playing. He's the only one who can heal (besides the Apprentice's self heal) and the only one that can deal with all conditions. Sure you can use HP potions and anti-venom potions, but those are pretty limited, only 1/3 of the merchants sell 1 HP potion each and there's only 2 HP potions in the 30 card white item deck, which gets reshuffled after each draw so your odds are always low.


I can't remember clearly but the Spriggan will be able to do some healing? Maybe I'm making it up
 
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Tony Pecorelli
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The Skald should be able to. I'm not sure about the Spriggan.
 
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Wallace MacBix
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runner_boy_4ever wrote:
FALCN120 wrote:
BRich83 wrote:
Dangit, as many times as I've looked through the rule book I didn't remember I'd seen that. I also hasn't looked at the acolyte cardboard token, just the metal one. Thanks for clearing that up. It looks like then he's the only hero with a base stat.


Yep, he's the special one. As for his strengths, he really is almost required for any group that wants to keep playing. He's the only one who can heal (besides the Apprentice's self heal) and the only one that can deal with all conditions. Sure you can use HP potions and anti-venom potions, but those are pretty limited, only 1/3 of the merchants sell 1 HP potion each and there's only 2 HP potions in the 30 card white item deck, which gets reshuffled after each draw so your odds are always low.


I can't remember clearly but the Spriggan will be able to do some healing? Maybe I'm making it up


No clue about that. I did get the Spriggan and the Skald (which I believe is mostly buffs/debuffs) Hero decks, but I ever heard anything about them.

Plus from the base game my comment still stands. My friend and I were able to kill a mini-boss because he couldn't attack us, but if he was able to we would have died easily (neither of us were the Acolyte).

Edit: Also I hope the Spriggan has something special about him, starting with 3 vitality seems like a death sentence.
 
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Tony Pecorelli
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FALCN120 wrote:


Edit: Also I hope the Spriggan has something special about him, starting with 3 vitality seems like a death sentence.


He does. I think the armor he summons has vitality and you can reduce its vitality until it breaks and then you re-summon it.
 
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Jeremy Steward
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Both the Skald and Spriggan can heal but i dont think either is as good as the acolyte (for healing) based on the SF videos.

From the SF videos, the Skald appears to have the least attacks of all classes but has lots of buffs and debuffs. Not sure how many heals he has.

The Spriggan does a little bit of everything. He likely only has 1 healing card (tho maybe 2 copies of it).

Also, it seems that a lot of people are thinking rage is like faith and dont realize that they can play face down cards as rage.
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Shawn Hubbard
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It's also worth noting that those big AOE heals provide threat to the Acolyte. If he's throwing out Last Rites with some regularity and then next hand has to follow up with a big heal he could quickly become a target or worse - trigger the threat penalty. It does seem like the multi-hero heals could be changed to generate threat per hero healed if balance issues ever came up, but I don't know if it's necessary.
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Charlie Theel
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We just played this last night and through about 8-10 turns I think we had the Acolyte buff 3 times (the first time a heal was wasted). He can produce Faith somewhat reliably, but he still needs those buff cards to get into play.

The pacing of class abilities seemed pretty good actually. No one seemed dominant. The Soldier was excellent at cutting through large groups of enemies intermittently, the Archer was great at taking down lairs with her DoT attack as well as picking off straggling minions, the Acolyte buffed and a got a couple of solid kills in, and the Brigand proved great against larger targets.
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I'm looking forward to playing either Spriggan or Skald when they come in, but Acolyte doesn't entice me as much.

In their absence, is it required to have an Acolyte in your party?

And does the character basically play as "heal mook" the whole time? I know in dungeon crawl games it can really get stuck playing as the heal mook. Does he have some other fun stuff to do too?
 
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Jarad Bond
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Talking about faith, do you guys play that you have to spend threat and AP if you want to add a faith card without playing it's effects?

Example:

If you wanted one extra faith to get the one extra target for Last Rites to pop a treasure, and only had the big heal in your hand and nobody needed healing. You can play it under any circumstances just for faith, according to the Acolyte section of the rulebook, but you have to pay the AP/Threat cost too, right?
 
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Charlie Theel
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Yes, you still have to pay the AP/Threat cost.
 
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Eric
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logris wrote:
Talking about faith, do you guys play that you have to spend threat and AP if you want to add a faith card without playing it's effects?

Example:

If you wanted one extra faith to get the one extra target for Last Rites to pop a treasure, and only had the big heal in your hand and nobody needed healing. You can play it under any circumstances just for faith, according to the Acolyte section of the rulebook, but you have to pay the AP/Threat cost too, right?


Yes you still have to count the AP/Threat, it is also mentioned in the hero deck reference guide.
 
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Dustin Ivey
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I just want to point something out...

the brown starting gear the acolyte gets also provides one base faith.

So at the VERY BEGINNING of every mission, the acolyte already has two base faith... This is actually fairly significant so early on in a game session.
 
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Wallace MacBix
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Dustin1280 wrote:
I just want to point something out...

the brown starting gear the acolyte gets also provides one base faith.

So at the VERY BEGINNING of every mission, the acolyte already has two base faith... This is actually fairly significant so early on in a game session.


Yep, except for the one quest where you only get to choose 1 brown item and if you'd rather have a weapon instead of your relic (not saying you would want to, but you can). Also wait till you get some titles and some good blue items. There are 3 blue items (shield, armor, and helm) that all provide +1 faith. And the blue shield (which is a relic) also can "act like a prayer card" with a Fate Recipe.
 
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Brad Richardson
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Digitalwolfe wrote:
I'm looking forward to playing either Spriggan or Skald when they come in, but Acolyte doesn't entice me as much.

In their absence, is it required to have an Acolyte in your party?

And does the character basically play as "heal mook" the whole time? I know in dungeon crawl games it can really get stuck playing as the heal mook. Does he have some other fun stuff to do too?


He's got some excellent buffs which he can apply to himself or other heroes and he's got some damage dealing ability. His healing is useful but he can also get in on the action.
 
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Dan Gillis
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Brian also stated that the Trickster was a secondary healer with the hero juice slinging trap. If he has only one in the deck you would certainly need potions as backup. Also, I have a feeling the healing is a proximity to the trap, which could be good or bad.

The Acolyte can't be the only one with status recovery. Wasn't there any other cards in the other decks?


 
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Remi Bureau
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Dustin1280 wrote:
I just want to point something out...

the brown starting gear the acolyte gets also provides one base faith.

So at the VERY BEGINNING of every mission, the acolyte already has two base faith... This is actually fairly significant so early on in a game session.


No, the worn book of prayers doesn't provide Faith, check again.
 
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Dustin Ivey
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RemiBureau wrote:
Dustin1280 wrote:
I just want to point something out...

the brown starting gear the acolyte gets also provides one base faith.

So at the VERY BEGINNING of every mission, the acolyte already has two base faith... This is actually fairly significant so early on in a game session.


No, the worn book of prayers doesn't provide Faith, check again.


My bad, I was under the impression the relic symbol alone provided faith, but it turns out the wording is actually: "...and often, more base faith."

I somehow made the assumption that it automatically provided it.
 
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Brad Richardson
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Dustin1280 wrote:

I somehow made the assumption that it automatically provided it.


You fool!
 
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