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Subject: Rape is Hilarious (?) rss

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Alaren
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I wondered a little whether I should post this here. I still kind of wonder, since as a rule I am unimpressed with the comments that ordinarily attend the "can rape be funny or can't it" threads that crop up in RSP periodically. But I don't post many "S" threads so hopefully if I've made an error in judgment, you will forgive me.

Anyway I feel like this is sufficiently artistic and insightful and potentially adds something new to that conversation, so (for everyone who hasn't already seen this on Reddit), here you go.
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Boaty McBoatface
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I made it about 20 seconds before I decided that this bloke needs a good killing, you people have guns use them more often (comic genius this I assure you).
 
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Alaren
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slatersteven wrote:
I made it about 20 seconds before I decided that this bloke needs a good killing, you people have guns use them more often (comic genius this I assure you).


Then I promise you haven't watched enough of the video.
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Boaty McBoatface
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Alaren wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
I made it about 20 seconds before I decided that this bloke needs a good killing, you people have guns use them more often (comic genius this I assure you).


Then I promise you haven't watched enough of the video.
I took your advice, and I have to agree it is worth putting up with the whinny delivery.
 
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Thanks, Ken. This was a brilliant video.
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Ken
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I guess this comes down to the "why"-did you post this for the message at the end? Or just because of the title?

Based on past interactions, I'd lay money on the former. In which case, it's definitely a new way to frame the issue than we often see and therefore adds to the discussion.

But you really do need to watch the whole thing.
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James Stein
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Where did you hear about this? Video says uploaded yesterday, 3111 views.

Ah. Reddit. Gotcha.
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Michael Carter
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Chad Ellis
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Interesting, upsetting and powerful video. Thanks for sharing.

It's hard to comment on. I can only imagine how conflicted and self-doubting he felt as he dealt with this, and the trivialization of adult-female/young-male rape (especially back when this happened) must have left him feeling alone and isolated on top of it.

When I was in high school, one of the teachers there was fired and the rumor was that he had molested a boy. I'd been friendly with that teacher and remembered an odd conversation where he'd talked about a hypothetical situation where someone was fooling around with someone in the dark and discovered, deep into foreplay, that the other person was the same gender. His point was that it had been fun up 'til then but society trains us to go, "Yikes!"

At the time I had just thought it was a surprising thing for a teacher to talk about with kids (and risky, if anyone complained) but looking back at it in the light of what happened I naturally wondered if he'd been looking for how we reacted to see whether any of us might be interested (or vulnerable).

I was pretty conflicted about it. I was a bisexual teenage virgin (with either gender), so part of me wished I'd been the one he approached. But I also knew I'd have been terrified if he had and, while I wouldn't have used these words I also knew that it would have violated my trust if he had.
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Ken
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Alaren wrote:
...I am especially fond of dark humor--...


What's interesting is that I didn't even see the video you posted as an effort to be humorous, but to present the subject dripping with irony. It's uncomfortable because throughout the entire video, the "hilarity" he's talking about seems to have him bordering on tears. It wasn't dark humor as much as juxtaposition for me.

Always interesting to see how different people interpret the same thing.
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Ken
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I'm not sure I'd subscribe to that particular view, but it's an interesting one. And there's really no reason for us to see things through the same lens.
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Alaren wrote:
Anyway I feel like this is sufficiently artistic and insightful and potentially adds something new to that conversation, so (for everyone who hasn't already seen this on Reddit), here you go.

I like the video but I don't think it adds something new to the conversation.
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Simon Mueller wrote:
Alaren wrote:
Anyway I feel like this is sufficiently artistic and insightful and potentially adds something new to that conversation, so (for everyone who hasn't already seen this on Reddit), here you go.

I like the video but I don't think it adds something new to the conversation.


I think it does. It's tackling one of the least reported types of rape. It's touching on the last refuge of "socially acceptable rape jokes." It's looking at how men deal with this versus women. It's brilliantly unabashedly making people look at it differently.
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she2 wrote:
Simon Mueller wrote:
Alaren wrote:
Anyway I feel like this is sufficiently artistic and insightful and potentially adds something new to that conversation, so (for everyone who hasn't already seen this on Reddit), here you go.

I like the video but I don't think it adds something new to the conversation.

I think it does. It's tackling one of the least reported types of rape. It's touching on the last refuge of "socially acceptable rape jokes." It's looking at how men deal with this versus women. It's brilliantly unabashedly making people look at it differently.

OK, I should have said it's not new to me.
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Ken
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she2 wrote:
I think it does. It's tackling one of the least reported types of rape.


I found it to be more challenging to the notion that somehow rape was ever positive. Edit for clarity* - I found the video to be more a challenge to the arguments that get used to diminish the impact of a rape or somehow blame the victim. "It's cool that you had sex with a teacher!" Except it clearly isn't because it wasn't consensual. "You couldn't have been raped because you became sexually stimulated." Except that has nothing to do with the act - physical/hormonal responses don't imply consent.

I thought it took some of the sillier arguments people use to dismiss or excuse rape and turned them 180 degrees. And that it did so in a very, very provocative way.

* Humorously, I had to spell clarity three times when doing this to get it correct.
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perfalbion wrote:
she2 wrote:
I think it does. It's tackling one of the least reported types of rape.


I found it to be more challenging to the notion that somehow rape was ever positive. "It's cool that you had sex with a teacher!" Except it clearly isn't because it wasn't consensual. "You couldn't have been raped because you became sexually stimulated." Except that has nothing to do with the act - physical/hormonal responses don't imply consent.

I thought it took some of the sillier arguments men use to dismiss or excuse rape and turned them 180 degrees. And that it did so in a very, very provocative way.


Hmmm, I guess I can see that. I thought it was more about how many people never think that it CAN be rape (or even harmful) in that situation. We had a whole thread about this in RSP in the past (See thread "Bengals Cheerleader Sex Case"). You'll hear echoes of the video in that thread. It's the mythical high school fantasy, so even the victim doesn't want to admit he was a victim.

Here's that thread if anyone wants to relive the train wreck:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/786906/bengals-cheerlead...
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Ken
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I didn't participate in that thread and don't have time to roll through it. A quick scan makes it appear to be a statutory rape case where the teen was voluntarily engaging in the sex. He may not have even felt violated or abused. I didn't get the feeling that this was the point of the video in the OP - consent was pretty much lacking as well.

But there's no particular reason the video can't be conveying multiple messages simultaneously.
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perfalbion wrote:
I didn't participate in that thread and don't have time to roll through it. A quick scan makes it appear to be a statutory rape case where the teen was voluntarily engaging in the sex. He may not have even felt violated or abused. I didn't get the feeling that this was the point of the video in the OP - consent was pretty much lacking as well.

But there's no particular reason the video can't be conveying multiple messages simultaneously.


You're absolutely right with your points too. I wasn't implying that they are the same, just that the attitudes are similar. The denial is similar.
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Junior McSpiffy
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I'm gonna dismiss everything the guy has to say just because he isn't physically attractive enough to listen to.

Seriously... dude is goofy-lookin'. And his voice is grating.
 
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Tobias Strobe
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Good video. It's like a "Vagina Monologue" for male rape survivors. Tough fucking subject.

Being a male survivor of rape can be strange. I'm sure it is for women too, but I can't really comment about that. There are jokes about it, I think some of them are funny. We can't culturally decide if a boy being raped is completely horrifying and will disqualify him from becoming a whole man, or if he was kinda asking for it (depending on the gender of the rapist, of course), or if it's just something we shouldn't talk about. There aren't many men who want to discuss their experience as a rape survivor. Some hate being labeled as a "poor victim" (ding! ding!) so they just keep it private, even if being open would help other survivors deal with their own shit.

So, can jokes about it be funny? Sure. I think so. Some of the stuff that happens is so absurd that the only sane response is to laugh. That's the thing about rape. It's not one thing. It's a giant plate of ego spaghetti, where emotions and responses get mixed up and impossible to pull apart.

When I think about my experiences, I'll think about how exciting it was. It was also terrifying. It also gave me some incredible skills that help me deal with people (no fooling). It also made me deeply suspicious of everyone who is close to me. Some of it was hilarious, tragic, sexy (to me, in retrospect), disgusting, life-changing, emotionally devastating. I know it changed me, but since I don't know what I would be like if it didn't happen, I don't know if I would be better or worse off if I wasn't raped.

When it was happening, I felt like I was so much better than my peers. I still sometimes feel that way, like it was a super-secret christening into an exclusive club. Other times I'm overcome with unparalleled waves of self-loathing, because in many ways, I enjoyed it. Was I asking for it? Can a 10 year old be asking for it, even if he is "very mature for his age" (goddamn cliche)? Probably not, but for 4 years it sure felt like I was. The idea that I was some 12 year old vamp hitting on a man in his late 20s (which is what I thought I was) is truly laughable, so rape in that situation is sincerely funny. I spent lawn-mowing money to buy shitty cologne because that was supposed to be romantic... how bananas is that?

Even when thinking about the guy, there are scores of different emotions. I miss him... sometimes terribly. I often wonder how I would react if he called me 25 years after the fact and wanted to catch up. I want him to tell me that he still loves me. I also hope he gets crushed by a steamroller. One of the most painful things I've ever done was testify against him when I was 16, even though I -knew- the fucker had to go to jail. Hate, love, pity, revulsion, nostalgia, confusion. Even rapists inspire loads of emotions.

Rape is so many things, even with people who have experienced it. It is funny. It's also lots of other stuff. As long as we don't lose sight of how powerful and life-altering it can be, I think extracting some laughs can be a good thing. In the privacy of my home, I joke about it all the time, and sometimes, my jokes are goddamn hilarious. If you don't laugh, you cry. I'll do both, but when I can choose, I'll laugh.
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Boaty McBoatface
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she2 wrote:
Simon Mueller wrote:
Alaren wrote:
Anyway I feel like this is sufficiently artistic and insightful and potentially adds something new to that conversation, so (for everyone who hasn't already seen this on Reddit), here you go.

I like the video but I don't think it adds something new to the conversation.


I think it does. It's tackling one of the least reported types of rape. It's touching on the last refuge of "socially acceptable rape jokes." It's looking at how men deal with this versus women. It's brilliantly unabashedly making people look at it differently.
Odd I took away from this the feeling that he was not saying that rape jokes are acceptable, but that he has to tolerate rape jokes (and pretend to find them funny) because society does not see him as a victim (and one can apply that to female victims as well in some cultures).
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slatersteven wrote:
she2 wrote:
Simon Mueller wrote:
Alaren wrote:
Anyway I feel like this is sufficiently artistic and insightful and potentially adds something new to that conversation, so (for everyone who hasn't already seen this on Reddit), here you go.

I like the video but I don't think it adds something new to the conversation.


I think it does. It's tackling one of the least reported types of rape. It's touching on the last refuge of "socially acceptable rape jokes." It's looking at how men deal with this versus women. It's brilliantly unabashedly making people look at it differently.
Odd I took away from this the feeling that he was not saying that rape jokes are acceptable, but that he has to tolerate rape jokes (and pretend to find them funny) because society does not see him as a victim (and one can apply that to female victims as well in some cultures).


Yes, Steven, I agree. You're misinterpreting my comment. In addition, it's effective because jokes about male victims are in general more "socially acceptable" (see prison rape jokes etc.).
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Boaty McBoatface
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she2 wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
she2 wrote:
Simon Mueller wrote:
Alaren wrote:
Anyway I feel like this is sufficiently artistic and insightful and potentially adds something new to that conversation, so (for everyone who hasn't already seen this on Reddit), here you go.

I like the video but I don't think it adds something new to the conversation.


I think it does. It's tackling one of the least reported types of rape. It's touching on the last refuge of "socially acceptable rape jokes." It's looking at how men deal with this versus women. It's brilliantly unabashedly making people look at it differently.
Odd I took away from this the feeling that he was not saying that rape jokes are acceptable, but that he has to tolerate rape jokes (and pretend to find them funny) because society does not see him as a victim (and one can apply that to female victims as well in some cultures).


Yes, Steven, I agree. You're misinterpreting my comment. In addition, it's effective because jokes about male victims are in general more "socially acceptable" (see prison rape jokes etc.).
Sorry for not understanding you.
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slatersteven wrote:
she2 wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
she2 wrote:
Simon Mueller wrote:
Alaren wrote:
Anyway I feel like this is sufficiently artistic and insightful and potentially adds something new to that conversation, so (for everyone who hasn't already seen this on Reddit), here you go.

I like the video but I don't think it adds something new to the conversation.


I think it does. It's tackling one of the least reported types of rape. It's touching on the last refuge of "socially acceptable rape jokes." It's looking at how men deal with this versus women. It's brilliantly unabashedly making people look at it differently.
Odd I took away from this the feeling that he was not saying that rape jokes are acceptable, but that he has to tolerate rape jokes (and pretend to find them funny) because society does not see him as a victim (and one can apply that to female victims as well in some cultures).


Yes, Steven, I agree. You're misinterpreting my comment. In addition, it's effective because jokes about male victims are in general more "socially acceptable" (see prison rape jokes etc.).
Sorry for not understanding you.
Oh man, if we start apologizing for that RSP threads will get even longer!
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