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Subject: Elder Sign Exploit rss

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Arturo Cavari
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I was watching the latest faction videos and I started thinking about cool (but complex) strategies. This is the coolest I've come up with:

Faction: Black Goat.
Indipendent spellbooks: The Stars are right.
indipendent Great old One: Chaugnar Faugn.

If you're a Cthulhu Wars addict like I am by now you're starting to see the combo coming together: you're playing a faction that has a great way to get Elder Sign tokens every turn, then you summon Chaugnar Faugn, whose spellbook lets you flip over Elder Signs and decide which one you and your opponents get. Add in The Stars are Right, a spellbook that lets you get power every time you turn in an elder sign and you have a doom point and power factory!

With Chaugnar Faugn's ability you get only 3 (and maybe 2 after a while) value tokens, and you get 1-2 every turn thanks to Blood Sacrifice (depending on whether you ritual or not). Whenever you turn those tokens in you get 3 power!!! You can even wait until the very last round and have a 20+ power turn.

You could also add other pieces to the combo like Azathoth's Nuclear Chaos (which lets you gain even more elder signs), or you could even change the faction (Yellow Sign might be a good alternative) but I like to start small with a compact combo, and then as ply progresses see where it will take me.

Let me know your thoughts.

Edit: explained better
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Greg Robertson
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Nice post my friend! Indeed all of this could spell a VERY BAD DAY for other people who are playing.

"Nuclear Chaos" spell book is absolutely amazing. I used it during one of our play sessions. But alas, I was still short two doom points from winning the game.
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Joey Larsen
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Well thought out. I keep thinking that you need to be choosy with your independent GOO's. If you get too carried away you can just lose by being too spendy with your doom points. (I just learned that they don't cost doom points. That makes it better, but still important to be choosy)
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Arturo Cavari
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joeyman3 wrote:
Well thought out. I keep thinking that you need to be choosy with your independent GOO's. If you get too carried away you can just lose by being too spendy with your doom points.


My understanding is that indipendent GOO's cost only power (with some requirements). It's the indipendent monsters that cost doom.

Nevertheless you are perfectly right, I can see myself getting blinded by lust for the cool gray minis and easily losing a game.

Edit grammar
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Greg Robertson
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thegrinder wrote:
joeyman3 wrote:
Well thought out. I keep thinking that you need to be choosy with your independent GOO's. If you get too carried away you can just lose by being too spendy with your doom points.


My understanding is that indipendent GOO's cost only power (with some requirements). It's the indipendent monsters that cost doom.

Nevertheless you are perfectly right, I can see myself getting blinded by lust for the cool gray minis and easily losing a game.

Edit grammar


You are correct about this. The Great Old Ones require power to summon. The neutral monsters cost doom points. Your setup is quite nasty at generating elder tokens though. I like it a lot.
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Michael Off The Shelf Board Game Reviews
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I am sure I am missing a joke here (Avatar Photos).
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Greg Robertson
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Grumsh wrote:
I am sure I am missing a joke here (Avatar Photos).


Yes... The picture is that of Grant Petersen (Sandy's son). We are all members of the Cult of Grant.
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Michael Off The Shelf Board Game Reviews
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RobertGhent wrote:
Grumsh wrote:
I am sure I am missing a joke here (Avatar Photos).


Yes... The picture is that of Grant Petersen (Sandy's son). We are all members of the Cult of Grant.



Ahh okay!
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Arthur Petersen
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the general strategy here is a great idea. However, Black Goat is not the faction to use. While it is true that Black Goat can get a good overall total of elder signs, they have to gather them slowly over time, usually only 1 per entire doom phase! So you'd only get the real benefit of this strategy for maybe one action phase, at the end of the game.

Crawling Chaos can get a ton of elder signs doing the right things, and can better choose how frequently they get them - if Nyarly just jumps around attacking GOOs, he can get a considerable amount.

Windwalker can do a particular strategy wherein he just gets both GOOs out really early and rituals for 5 power every time - this could work with this strategy, as you would get 3 elder tokens each time for 5 power (an amazing deal on its own, but with this whole strategy it would often net him 4 power, plus grant 9 doom points!).

Yellow Sign would also not be a bad alternative if you get Hastur out early.

Cthulhu would probably be about as good as Black Goat

Sleeper would be slightly worse than Black Goat, probably.

Opener would be a much worse choice than Black Goat.




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Arturo Cavari
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existoid wrote:
the general strategy here is a great idea. However, Black Goat is not the faction to use. While it is true that Black Goat can get a good overall total of elder signs, they have to gather them slowly over time, usually only 1 per entire doom phase! So you'd only get the real benefit of this strategy for maybe one action phase, at the end of the game.

Crawling Chaos can get a ton of elder signs doing the right things, and can better choose how frequently they get them - if Nyarly just jumps around attacking GOOs, he can get a considerable amount.

Windwalker can do a particular strategy wherein he just gets both GOOs out really early and rituals for 5 power every time - this could work with this strategy, as you would get 3 elder tokens each time for 5 power (an amazing deal on its own, but with this whole strategy it would often net him 4 power, plus grant 9 doom points!).

Yellow Sign would also not be a bad alternative if you get Hastur out early.

Cthulhu would probably be about as good as Black Goat

Sleeper would be slightly worse than Black Goat, probably.

Opener would be a much worse choice than Black Goat.





Windwalker *_*
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Lincoln Petersen
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Chaugnar Faugn is not doubt powerful, but if/when he is killed the spellbook is lost and all the elder signs turn over again.
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linkthestink wrote:
Chaugnar Faugn is not doubt powerful, but if/when he is killed the spellbook is lost and all the elder signs turn over again.


That's true. When I'm usng this strategy with Windwalker I'll probably have him sit in a corner surrounded by Gnoph Keh, and maybe with a star vampire or elder thing (If I manage to get my hands on them) since they discourage players attacking the area.
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Sandy Petersen
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I must disagree with my son Arthur. Black Goat can easily earn 2 Elder Signs a turn with Blood Sacrifice, and typically has the second-most Elder Signs in a game when properly played (Yellow Sign still beats her).

Note that the problem with Independent Great Old Ones is that they are disloyal - if they are killed, someone else can summon them, plus their spellbook "falls off".

If someone comes and kills Chaugnar Faugn, you'll have to discard another 2 Elder Signs to re-earn his spellbook, even if you are the one to re-awaken him.

Of course this just means you have to put Chaugnar Faugn in a stronghold of Power.
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Greg Robertson
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Sandy Petersen wrote:
I must disagree with my son Arthur. Black Goat can easily earn 2 Elder Signs a turn with Blood Sacrifice, and typically has the second-most Elder Signs in a game when properly played (Yellow Sign still beats her).

I've experienced this exact situation first hand.

"Black Goat" players need to pick up "Blood Sacrifice" as soon as humanly possible. I make it a point to pick it up the first round of game play. Why? Because it guarantees you at least one "Elder Sign" token during the "Doom Phase". Now add onto this your normal "Rituals of Annihilation" and quite possibly an "Independent Great Old One" and you've got yourself a minimum of 2-3 "Elder Sign" tokens per "Doom Phase". Star Vampires would further increase your chances of acquiring "Elder Sign" tokens!

"Yellow Sign" is dangerous the entire game. He usually has 2-3 gates under his command during a session. But he makes up for this with all of the "Desecrations" and he has 2 "Great Old Ones". This guarantees him at least 3 "Elder Sign" tokens during a game session. One for each of his spell book requirements. Do you have the "King in Yellow" or "Hastur" in play? That's two "Elder Sign" tokens per "Ritual of Annihilation". This adds up! What if you also have another "Independent Great Old One"? That's 3 "Elder Sign" tokens per "Ritual of Annihilation"! Do you have "Star Vampires"? That's an even greater chance of acquiring "Elder Sign" tokens.

"Great Cthulhu" and "Sleeper" have the potential of racking up serious "Elder Sign" tokens when in play with "Gobogeg". This is covered in my second "2 versus 2 faction game session" (pending)! It's definitely worth the read.

Cthulhu Wars! Game responsibly.
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Arthur Petersen
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Sandy Petersen wrote:
I must disagree with my son Arthur. Black Goat can easily earn 2 Elder Signs a turn with Blood Sacrifice, and typically has the second-most Elder Signs in a game when properly played (Yellow Sign still beats her).

Note that the problem with Independent Great Old Ones is that they are disloyal - if they are killed, someone else can summon them, plus their spellbook "falls off".

If someone comes and kills Chaugnar Faugn, you'll have to discard another 2 Elder Signs to re-earn his spellbook, even if you are the one to re-awaken him.

Of course this just means you have to put Chaugnar Faugn in a stronghold of Power.


I'll have to agree with myself still. I said that "While it is true that Black Goat can get a good overall total of elder signs, they have to gather them slowly over time, usually only 1 per entire doom phase! So you'd only get the real benefit of this strategy for maybe one action phase, at the end of the game"

Even if you can get 2 per doom phase, as Sandy says, he still won't be earning enough to make this as powerful a strategy as with Yellow Sign, for example, at least, except at the end of the game; but you want to use this strategy throughout the game for best effect.

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Lincoln Petersen
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Proof that Arthur doesn't know how to play Black Goat.
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Arthur Petersen
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linkthestink wrote:
Proof that Arthur doesn't know how to play Black Goat.


It is impossible for Black Goat to get more than 2 elder tokens per round, excepting in games with independent GOOs or monsters/spellbooks.

So, to say that, on average, Black Goat always gets his maximum number of elder signs per round is a little bit unrealistic. I think it's more fair to say 1 per round, because sometimes you might get your Blood Sacrifice elder sign, but you might not ritual. Or you might ritual with Black Goat, but not yet have the Blood Sacrifice spellbook yet.

The point is, for goodness sakes, that the strategy combining "stars are right" and chaugnar faugn as described in this thread is much more effective if you can get a lot of elder signs in ONE round. Black Goat is NOT a faction that say, while you're playing: "I'm going to get a lot of elder tokens this round."

I stand by what I said since the beginning! huzzah! goo
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Arthur Petersen
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and there ANOTHER reason Black Goat is slightly less suited for this particular strategy:

Timing.

Azathoth's "The Stars are right" spellbook requires you to turn them in during gather power which precedes the doom phase.

Black Goat's only ways of getting elder signs BOTH occur during the Doom phase (ritualing with Shubby on the map and Blood Sacrifice).

So, you will always be turning in your 2 elders signs for power after an entire action phase!!

However, if you are using, say, Yellow Sign with this Chaugnar Faugn/stars are right strategy, you can gather a bunch of elder tokens during the action phase.

Cthulhu, Windwalker, and Crawling Chaos are also suited to get a bunch of elder tokens before gather power.
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Lincoln Petersen
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Look here bro. Name another faction that gets as many as 1 elder sign per round other than Black Goat and Yellow Sign. Windwalker can't unless he rituals every turn. Cthulhu technically can if he resummons Cthulhu every turn, but that is THE least efficient elder sign obtaining in the game. Crawling chaos technically has the potential to get boatloads, but usually this is also impossible. Opener get 2 Elder signs the whole game usually. And Sleeper Doesn't get any as well. Unless people are dumb and give him elder signs instead of losing a victory point.

Okay so I guess what I'm saying is that Black Goat isn't as good as Yellow Sign, but he is the next best choice barring ideal conditions with the others.
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Arthur Petersen
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linkthestink wrote:
Look here bro. Name another faction that gets as many as 1 elder sign per round other than Black Goat and Yellow Sign. Windwalker can't unless he rituals every turn. Cthulhu technically can if he resummons Cthulhu every turn, but that is THE least efficient elder sign obtaining in the game. Crawling chaos technically has the potential to get boatloads, but usually this is also impossible. Opener get 2 Elder signs the whole game usually. And Sleeper Doesn't get any as well. Unless people are dumb and give him elder signs instead of losing a victory point.

Okay so I guess what I'm saying is that Black Goat isn't as good as Yellow Sign, but he is the next best choice barring ideal conditions with the others.


What I keep repeating is that all that really matters for this strategy is how many can you get AT ONE TIME? Otherwise, it's a matter of which faction gets the most elder signs total, and then you can use this strategy once during the last round (and therefore not as effective).

Crawling Chaos and Windwalker can get you a LOT at once, and that's what I originally said!!

Behold my ORIGINAL statement about this entire strategy!!!! -

Quote:
Crawling Chaos can get a ton of elder signs doing the right things, and can better choose how frequently they get them - if Nyarly just jumps around attacking GOOs, he can get a considerable amount.

Windwalker can do a particular strategy wherein he just gets both GOOs out really early and rituals for 5 power every time - this could work with this strategy, as you would get 3 elder tokens each time for 5 power (an amazing deal on its own, but with this whole strategy it would often net him 4 power, plus grant 9 doom points!).

Yellow Sign would also not be a bad alternative if you get Hastur out early.

Cthulhu would probably be about as good as Black Goat

Sleeper would be slightly worse than Black Goat, probably.

Opener would be a much worse choice than Black Goat.


Turns out, we're saying the same thing:

Black Goat is not the worst, but Windwalker and Crawling Chaos would be better to get a bunch at once, and Cthulhu is actually probably on par - he doesn't ONLY get elder signs for awakening Cthulhu remember, but also for one of his spellbooks
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Peter Connolly
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gooSadistic, non-lethal Cthulhu:goo

Round 1 (ideal): Summon a Gate and a High Priest (hoping for 2 other Ocean Gates.)
Gain Spellbooks: Undimensioned, The Stars are Right.

Round 2: Should have 2 Doom, 11 Power, plus the High Priest.
Round 2, Doom: Summon Leng Spider.
Round 2, Turn 1: Summon Cthulhu (gain Elder Sign.)
Gain Spellbook: Submerge.
Round 2, Turn 2: Summon Chaugnar Faugn.
Round 2, Turn 3: Sacrifice High Priest, or...
Round 2, Turn 4: Submerge war party.
Round 2, Turn 5: Emerge upon cultist-heavy, monster-light enemy Gate (minimum 3 enemy units.)
Round 2, Turn 6: Use Faugn's Miri Nigri, turning, say, 4 Cultists into 8 Combat die, plus Cthulhu's 6! Devour and the Spider are Spellbook insurance.
Gain Spellbooks: Yha Nthlei, Regenerate, Devolve, Curse of Chaugnar Faugn.

Round 3, Doom: Summon Elder Thing.
Round 3, Turn 1: Summon Gobogeg!
Round 3, Turn 2: Summon Cthugha (sacrificing Cthulhu; gain 6 Power!)
Round 3, Turn 3: Summon Cthulhu (gain Elder Sign and 2 Power!)
Round 3, Turn 4 and onward: Submerge and attack a G.O.O. for Cthugha's Spellbook, then Summon army, Undimension, Submerge, Attack, repeat ad infinitum.

You are reaping Power for pains taken and killing Cthulhu as often as possible, gaining 2 Power and an Elder Sign with each resummon.

Leng Spiders convert Pains to Kills, Cthugha converts Kills to Pains and Elder Signs (always 3s), and The Stars are Right converts Signs to Doom and Power!devil
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Arturo Cavari
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That's a very cool strategy! I'll try it as soon as wave 2 arrives!

It's definetly going to paint a target on your back though.
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Arthur Petersen
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DCLXVI wrote:
gooSadistic, non-lethal Cthulhu:goo

Round 1 (ideal): Summon a Gate and a High Priest (hoping for 2 other Ocean Gates.)
Gain Spellbooks: Undimensioned, The Stars are Right.

Round 2: Should have 2 Doom, 11 Power, plus the High Priest.
Round 2, Doom: Summon Leng Spider.
Round 2, Turn 1: Summon Cthulhu (gain Elder Sign.)
Gain Spellbook: Submerge.
Round 2, Turn 2: Summon Chaugnar Faugn.
Round 2, Turn 3: Sacrifice High Priest, or...
Round 2, Turn 4: Submerge war party.
Round 2, Turn 5: Emerge upon cultist-heavy, monster-light enemy Gate (minimum 3 enemy units.)
Round 2, Turn 6: Use Faugn's Miri Nigri, turning, say, 4 Cultists into 8 Combat die, plus Cthulhu's 6! Devour and the Spider are Spellbook insurance.
Gain Spellbooks: Yha Nthlei, Regenerate, Devolve, Curse of Chaugnar Faugn.

Round 3, Doom: Summon Elder Thing.
Round 3, Turn 1: Summon Gobogeg!
Round 3, Turn 2: Summon Cthugha (sacrificing Cthulhu; gain 6 Power!)
Round 3, Turn 3: Summon Cthulhu (gain Elder Sign and 2 Power!)
Round 3, Turn 4 and onward: Submerge and attack a G.O.O. for Cthugha's Spellbook, then Summon army, Undimension, Submerge, Attack, repeat ad infinitum.

You are reaping Power for pains taken and killing Cthulhu as often as possible, gaining 2 Power and an Elder Sign with each resummon.

Leng Spiders convert Pains to Kills, Cthugha converts Kills to Pains and Elder Signs (always 3s), and The Stars are Right converts Signs to Doom and Power!devil


Quick modification so this would work:
You won't be able to create 2 gates AND recruit your high priest on the first turn. Having 3 gates and a high priest after the first turn is over would require more than the 8 starting power. You accurately noted you'd have 11 power on the second turn, though (7 cultists, plus 2 total gates), but you won't have two spellbooks, just one.

To make this work, you would have to delay getting your high priest, and then you could have two spellbooks, and this would actually get you even more power anyway (12).

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Arturo Cavari
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Arthur I think that DCLXVI's plan is to build only one gate and hope that other factions build 2 more gates in the ocean.
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René Schep
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I don't see that happening on the regular earth map ever.
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