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BattleLore (Second Edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Rune Golem Stun vs. Unstoppable rss

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Nicholas Korpelainen
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Does stun prevent the use of Unstoppable for the stunned unit? We ruled that the answer is yes. If a unit is stunned, it cannot counter, so the absoluteness of the word 'cannot' trumps any lore card effect, as with riverwatch riders and Unstoppable?
 
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Chris Montgomery
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nkorppi wrote:
Does stun prevent the use of Unstoppable for the stunned unit? We ruled that the answer is yes. If a unit is stunned, it cannot counter, so the absoluteness of the word 'cannot' trumps any lore card effect, as with riverwatch riders and Unstoppable?


Probably correct. The consensus has been that Unstoppable cannot be played to permit a unit to counter Riverwatch Riders, so the same logic should apply here to prohibit Unstoppable's use for units when stunned by Rune Golems.

But wait for a more experienced player to come along and verify that.
 
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Scott Lewis
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The general rule of thumb with FFGs games, and the Riverwatch Riders vs Unstoppable is consistent with this, is that effects which say "cannot" override effects which allow something. Both would override the regular rules, but in this case, I would say Unstoppable would NOT work on a Stunned unit.
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Todd Rewoldt
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Not an experienced 2E player (yet), so I don't know if this is a holdover from 1E or not, but in 1E order of play is what matters - a lore card played later in the turn trumps conditions presented earlier in the turn when a conflict arises.

Not sure if this is analagous to the situation being talked about, but an example from 1E that seems to fit is if the lore card Mists of Terror were played (played at the command phase/beginning of turn, targets all defending units causing them to be unable to ignore any flag/retreat results) and then later in the turn Fearless were played(during the battle phase, targeted defending unit [one that would have also been targeted by Mists of Terror] ignores all flag/retreat results), the Fearless play would trump the Mists of Terror play.

Interested to see how this is ruled, as I do plan on playing 2E at some point in the future.
 
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Scott Lewis
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cmontgo2 wrote:
The consensus has been that Unstoppable cannot be played to permit a unit to counter Riverwatch Riders...

Missed this sentence earlier; this isn't just common consensus, but is an actual ruling from FFG:
http://boardgamegeek.com/article/14560735#14560735


toddrew wrote:
Not an experienced 2E player (yet), so I don't know if this is a holdover from 1E or not, but in 1E order of play is what matters - a lore card played later in the turn trumps conditions presented earlier in the turn when a conflict arises.

The case of Unstoppable vs Riverwatch Riders does go against this, though; Riverwatch Riders being a unit ability would always be "first", and Unstoppable being played after, but it's been ruled that the Riverwatch Rider's ability of "cannot counter" trumps Unstoppable (in the thread linked above).

So I'm not sure the 1E order of precedent would apply here.


And, based on the above thread's statement that "cannot is an absolute", since Stunned units "cannot" counter, I would say that means a Stunned unit could not counter even with Unstoppable.
 
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Todd Rewoldt
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Thanks for the link, Scott - discussions like those help me to get a feel for the game mechanics. In BL1E the Lore cards held ultimate trump - not the case in BL2E, unit abilities seem to. Got it
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Scott Lewis
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Todd, maybe sometime soon we can figure out a way to get together for a game, to let you try it first hand How long has it been since that Heroscape event we played in together?
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Todd Rewoldt
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7 years or so - maybe longer? Perhaps this Summer something can happen. Kinda waiting on the first expansion to see what is going to happen with 2E before getting on board.

I would love for 2E to take off and have a healthy community of players (especially a healthy CO community!) - here's to that.
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