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Subject: The Unofficial (but official) Brigand Questions & Answers rss

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J Larkin
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I decided to dedicate a thread to this beloved Hero since so many questions have been posted about him. My goal is to only post answers to questions that have received an official response. This began as my own personal document, but I thought it may be useful for others learning the Brigand.

*Please note that I will be modifying this post with updates/changes as they come in*


Brigand Questions & Answers

Combos
Q: What is the point of a combo?
A: Combos allow the Brigand to remain in Shadows until the end of a combo regardless of effects that may have otherwise removed him from Shadows (such as a successful attack). 1.6

Q: If you play the combo Shadows -> Shadow’s Reach -> Unseen Ally and make a successful attack with Shadow’s Reach, would you remain in Shadows due to the “Action: Brigand stays in Shadows” effect of Unseen Ally?
A: The Brigand would remain in Shadows if the Combo was laid out in this way. 1.6

Shadows
Q: What cards are affected by the +2 Fate Dice provided by a Shadows card?
A: "Combo: +2 FD" at the top of any Shadows card mean that any card that has the text "Requires Shadows" or "(Optional - Shadows)" gains the +2 Fate Dice.

Q: If the Brigand is hidden in Shadows and is two spaces away from an Inactive group of minions, does he Activate the group of minions?
A: No. While in Shadows the Brigand is removed from Priorities and threat ranges. 1.5

Q: If an adjacent enemy passes his check to notice the Brigand, do you discard Shadows or are you only seen for that single combat round and allowed to keep your Shadows card in play for a future attack?
A: The Brigand is removed from Shadows and the Shadows card is no longer in effect. When the Hero Cycle ends the Shadow card will be discarded. 1.5

Q: If an adjacent enemy passes his check to notice the Brigand (while in Shadows), do enemies on the tile that did not start adjacent to the Brigand have an opportunity to attack him?
A: If they can attack the Brigand based on Priorities they will. Rolling a notice check happens prior to enemy movement and only if the Brigand starts adjacent to an enemy when the Darkness Cycle starts. 1.5

Shadows & Movement
Q: Is there a movement restriction while in Shadows?
A: The Brigand may only move cautiously while in Shadows if he wishes to remain in Shadows. 1.5

Q: Does being in Shadows prevent the Brigand from utilizing an aggressive movement card?
A: No, but you must move cautiously to remain in Shadows. 1.6

Q: Can you play a Shadows card if you have already taken a Normal or Aggressive movement in the Hero Cycle?
A: Yes. 1.6

Q: Shadows is an Ongoing effect. If I lose Shadows due to Normal or Aggressive movement am I forced to remove the Ongoing card?
A: Yes. It may be flipped upside down (still uses Action slot), and will be discarded during the Hero Deck Phase. 1.5

Hero Deck Cards
Q: When playing Suicide Run, does the Brigand's ending square need to be empty? What happens if I fail to hit the target?
A: The square does not need to be empty. If multiple monster types are targeted by the attack and the Brigand can't hit them all, then he needs to use his success or successes to hit the first monster types in his movement. Once he gets to a monster type he fails to hit, even if he has leftover MP then his Movement ends. 1.1

Q: In regards to Suicide Run, can the Brigand use MP from his Normal movement as part of the attack, or must it come from cards?
A: The Brigand only gains Movement from any cards played. 1.1

Q: Do the Hustle cards played as a result of the Suicide Run ability count as Aggressive movement?
A: Yes.

Q: Is Suicide Run considered a Move?
A: Suicide Run is not considered a Move card. It should have this callout like other cards do.1.10

Q: Does Unseen Ally provide the +2 FD from being in Shadows to another Hero or just the bonuses listed on Unseen Ally?
A: Unseen Ally provides +1 d10, +1 FD, and +1 damage for a single attack Action only.

Q: Can Unseen Ally assist an AOE? If so is it +1 damage to each target or +1 damage on one target?
A: This is for one attack Action regardless of whether it is single target or AoE. All targets hit receive +1 damage. 1.2

Q: When do you play Like A Reed In The Wind?
A: Like A Reed in the Wind redirects an incoming successful attack after the attack roll is made. 1.10

Q: How does Like A Reed In The Wind work with a “damage per success” enemy such as Yardu?
A: It is still considered a single attack and all successes (damage) rolled by Yardu (or similar enemy) would be redirected.1.10

Q: When the Brigand plays Unravel does he pick two treasure tokens from the bag and keep both or just one?
A: When the Brigand moves to a treasure on the Realm Tile and plays Unravel, when he picks up the treasure by spending a MP he gets to draw 2 treasure tokens from the bag and keep both. This only counts as 1 treasure being removed from the Tile limit. 1.2

__________________________________________________________________

Sources

1.1 - 1.10 • Responder: Kenny • Location: “Rules questions (Is there a FAQ?)” Link • Note: The number following 1 references the page of the thread where relevant text can be found.

**Still working on the Sources for some of these**

__________________________________________________________________


I appreciate feedback so let me know what I may have missed. Again, official answers only in this thread please.



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Wallace MacBix
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LordCyler wrote:
Q: If an adjacent enemy passes his check to notice the Brigand, do enemies on the tile that did not start adjacent to the Brigand have an opportunity to attack him?
A: If they can attack the Brigand based on Priorities they will. Rolling a notice check happens prior to enemy movement and only if the Brigand starts adjacent to an enemy when the Darkness Cycle starts.


While this is the official response as of yesterday (I think). I believe it is wrong, and Kenny/Brain should look at the rule book again to determine if the rule book needs to be changed or their ruling on this card.

Pg 29:
Quote:
I didn't see you there

The Darkness can't target the Brigand for an attack unless they start out adjacent to him when they activate. The target number to Notice the Brigand is based off the type of Shadows card he has in play.



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Dan Cordz
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Wow, this is great and answers a lot of the questions I had about using the Brigand! The one question I had was whether you could cite where either in the rulebook or various forums your official responses come from? If not that's fine, but it would help make your list more definitive, and given how clearly worded your questions and answers are I would love to see this become as "official" as possible.

You also seem to say that Unseen Ally does not pass on the shadow bonus of +2 FD to the other hero, but the rulebook seems to say otherwise. Under the "tricky cards" section on page 29, the rulebook says "Even if Unseen Ally is only used to pass the Shadows +2 FD to a Hero while the Brigand stays safely in shadows, it is worth it." This statement seems to imply that another hero can gain the shadow bonus as well, but this could be a mistake as it also seems to imply that it could be possible for a hero to only receive a +2 FD bonus and not the printed bonus of 1d10, 1FD and 1 damage, which I don't see how is possible.
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Wallace MacBix
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LordCyler wrote:
Q: If you play the combo Shadows -> Shadow’s Reach -> Unseen Ally and make a successful attack with
Shadow’s Reach, would you remain in Shadows due to the “Action: Brigand stays in Shadows” effect of Unseen Ally?
A: The Brigand would remain in Shadows if the Combo was laid out in this way.


If I can ask when did Kenny/Brian say this. The Hero-Deck-Reference-Sheets-REV4e.pdf which went up yesterday on the Myth website states:

Quote:
If the Brigand uses Shadow's Reach with this card he confers the bonuses to his ally before the attack takes place and he is forced to clear his Shadows card


Edit: It seems that the Hero Deck Reference is incorrect and will be getting fixed for it's next iteration.
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Wallace MacBix
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Captain Stupendous wrote:
Under the "tricky cards" section on page 29, the rulebook says "Even if Unseen Ally is only used to pass the Shadows +2 FD to a Hero while the Brigand stays safely in shadows, it is worth it." This statement seems to imply that another hero can gain the shadow bonus as well, but this could be a mistake as it also seems to imply that it could be possible for a hero to only receive a +2 FD bonus and not the printed bonus of 1d10, 1FD and 1 damage, which I don't see how is possible.


There have been official posts saying that the rulebook is incorrect about transferring the +2FD to another Hero. The Hero-Deck-Reference-Sheet also states that another Hero only gets +1d10, +1 FD, +1 damage and that the Brigand does not get those bonuses.
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Steve Hajducko
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They mentioned it today on the official Myth forums.
 
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J Larkin
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FALCN120 wrote:
LordCyler wrote:
Q: If you play the combo Shadows -> Shadow’s Reach -> Unseen Ally and make a successful attack with
Shadow’s Reach, would you remain in Shadows due to the “Action: Brigand stays in Shadows” effect of Unseen Ally?
A: The Brigand would remain in Shadows if the Combo was laid out in this way.


If I can ask when did Kenny/Brian say this. The Hero-Deck-Reference-Sheets-REV4e.pdf which went up yesterday on the Myth website states:

Quote:
If the Brigand uses Shadow's Reach with this card he confers the bonuses to his ally before the attack takes place and he is forced to clear his Shadows card


Got the answer this morning on Megacon forums. I had a similar concern when it was answered and confirmed a second time with Kenny who stated he would make the correction on Hero Reference. So it's good to go. A win for the Brigand!


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Steve Hajducko
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Yeah LordCyler. I'm Moogyver on those forums and I must have asked that question like 3 times and kept getting glossed over. Thanks for pushing it thru for me!

I figured maybe they were discussing it and didn't want to give an answer.
 
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Great, it appears that the Brigand actually works a lot more intuitively than I thought, its just that the rules which present how he's supposed to work are pretty awful.
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Captain Stupendous wrote:
Wow, this is great and answers a lot of the questions I had about using the Brigand! The one question I had was whether you could cite where either in the rulebook or various forums your official responses come from? If not that's fine, but it would help make your list more definitive, and given how clearly worded your questions and answers are I would love to see this become as "official" as possible.

You also seem to say that Unseen Ally does not pass on the shadow bonus of +2 FD to the other hero, but the rulebook seems to say otherwise. Under the "tricky cards" section on page 29, the rulebook says "Even if Unseen Ally is only used to pass the Shadows +2 FD to a Hero while the Brigand stays safely in shadows, it is worth it." This statement seems to imply that another hero can gain the shadow bonus as well, but this could be a mistake as it also seems to imply that it could be possible for a hero to only receive a +2 FD bonus and not the printed bonus of 1d10, 1FD and 1 damage, which I don't see how is possible.


None of these were taken from the Rulebook. Most were complied from the Megacon forum "Rules questions (Is there a FAQ?)" and were answered by Kenny. A few were taken from the BGG forums but only when officially answered. I will try to work on your request.

I can try to confirm your question but my best guess is that it was a mistake. *There is also talk of it being addressed as a mistake officially, but I haven't seen it yet.* I'm with you though, I dislike getting answers that conflict with a rulebook. My only point right now would be to look at this question and answer:

Q: What cards are affected by the +2 Fate Dice provided by a Shadows card?
A: "Combo: +2 FD" at the top of any Shadows card mean that any card that has the text "Requires Shadows" or "(Optional - Shadows)" gains the +2 Fate Dice.

Based on this the only time that bonus would be applicable would be if the Hero receiving the +2 FD was another Brigand (because it only affects Shadow cards). In addition, it would lead to another question: When would this ever happen? I can't think of a reason you wouldn't be able to provide the bonus listed on Unseen Ally but be able to provide a bonus that is meant for your Hero.

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J Larkin
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sjmh wrote:
Yeah LordCyler. I'm Moogyver on those forums and I must have asked that question like 3 times and kept getting glossed over. Thanks for pushing it thru for me!

I figured maybe they were discussing it and didn't want to give an answer.


Was thinking the same thing and was DYING for an answer to that one.
 
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Charlie Theel
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If I'm in Shadows and Suicide Run (leaving Shadows to attack) but trigger the Fate recipe on the Dagger I would stay in Shadows.

However, does anyone know if I'm in Shadows, Suicide Run, Add a Hustle Card to boost the suicide run, and trigger my Dagger - would I still stay in Shadows?

Basically, does the Dagger's "Remain in Shadows" Recipe only allow you to remain in Shadows if you would leave Shadows from an attack, or would it also allow you to remain in Shadows if you would leave Shadows from a non-Cautious move? (assuming you were rolling an attack with the dagger in the same combo/card as that move).
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Steve Hajducko
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Quote:
If I'm in Shadows and Suicide Run (leaving Shadows to attack) but trigger the Fate recipe on the Dagger I would stay in Shadows.

However, does anyone know if I'm in Shadows, Suicide Run, Add a Hustle Card to boost the suicide run, and trigger my Dagger - would I still stay in Shadows?

Basically, does the Dagger's "Remain in Shadows" Recipe only allow you to remain in Shadows if you would leave Shadows from an attack, or would it also allow you to remain in Shadows if you would leave Shadows from a non-Cautious move? (assuming you were rolling an attack with the dagger in the same combo/card as that move).


Although my answer is nowhere near official, I believe that the dagger would function for Suicide Run. It's not considered an aggressive move ( like the Soldier's Riding the Edge is and it tells you that ). The hustle cards aren't actually used as hustle, but are just played to give +2MP to the Suicide Run. Since the Suicide Run is considered a single attack, then I'd consider the dagger recipe a valid recipe to proc.
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J Larkin
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charlest wrote:
If I'm in Shadows and Suicide Run (leaving Shadows to attack) but trigger the Fate recipe on the Dagger I would stay in Shadows.

However, does anyone know if I'm in Shadows, Suicide Run, Add a Hustle Card to boost the suicide run, and trigger my Dagger - would I still stay in Shadows?

Basically, does the Dagger's "Remain in Shadows" Recipe only allow you to remain in Shadows if you would leave Shadows from an attack, or would it also allow you to remain in Shadows if you would leave Shadows from a non-Cautious move? (assuming you were rolling an attack with the dagger in the same combo/card as that move).


I would say that you would remain in Shadows since the Hustle was played as a part of the Suicide Run special text. It would therefore be included in the combo and outside the normal rules.

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Charlie Theel
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Thanks guys. That's what I would assume as well (it's the simplest, most intuitive answer) but wanted to check other opinions.
 
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Wallace MacBix
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LordCyler wrote:
charlest wrote:
If I'm in Shadows and Suicide Run (leaving Shadows to attack) but trigger the Fate recipe on the Dagger I would stay in Shadows.

However, does anyone know if I'm in Shadows, Suicide Run, Add a Hustle Card to boost the suicide run, and trigger my Dagger - would I still stay in Shadows?

Basically, does the Dagger's "Remain in Shadows" Recipe only allow you to remain in Shadows if you would leave Shadows from an attack, or would it also allow you to remain in Shadows if you would leave Shadows from a non-Cautious move? (assuming you were rolling an attack with the dagger in the same combo/card as that move).


I would say that you would remain in Shadows since the Hustle was played as a part of the Suicide Run special text. It would therefore be included in the combo and outside the normal rules.



I agree with the stipulation that if you move Normally or Aggressively outside of a combo the Dagger would not return you to Shadows. Your Shadows would break before you did your attack so the Dagger could not keep you in Shadows.
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Bob Roth
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Nice job! I would love to see this done for all classes!!
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Nicolas Picouet
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LordCyler wrote:

Q: When playing Suicide Run, does the Brigand's ending square need to be empty? What happens if I fail to hit the target?
A: The square does not need to be empty. If multiple monster types are targeted by the attack and the Brigand can't hit them all, then he needs to use his success or successes to hit the first monster types in his movement. Once he gets to a monster type he fails to hit, even if he has leftover MP then his Movement ends. 1.1


So, let me get this straight in an example.

I play Suicide Run with a hustle, so I can move 4MP during the run.

Start layout (b = brigand, g = grubber)
ggX
XXg
bXX

I choose to run upwards for 2MP, then right 1MP, then diagonally down and end on the last grubber for my last MP.

Since they are all the same enemy type, I roll my dice and fail to hit them.
Do I place my brigand in the space below the first grubber?

End layout if I fail to hit the grubbers (b = brigand, g = grubber)
ggX
bXg
XXX
 
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Steve Hajducko
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Nicolas - Correct.

This happened to use in our first play through ( and we played it wrong ).

We had:

MGGX
XXGX
XXBX

I played Suicide Run, +Hustle. I had to hit 2 TN's ( one for the Grubbers, one for the Mucker ). I rolled a 1 and a 9. The way we played it, I used the 9 to hit the Mucker ( He only had 1 HP left, so we thought I killed him ) and left the Grubbers alone.

However, in this case, I should have had to use the 9 for the Grubbers and ended like this.

MBXX
XXXX
XXXX

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Jarad Bond
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LordCyler wrote:
charlest wrote:
If I'm in Shadows and Suicide Run (leaving Shadows to attack) but trigger the Fate recipe on the Dagger I would stay in Shadows.

However, does anyone know if I'm in Shadows, Suicide Run, Add a Hustle Card to boost the suicide run, and trigger my Dagger - would I still stay in Shadows?

Basically, does the Dagger's "Remain in Shadows" Recipe only allow you to remain in Shadows if you would leave Shadows from an attack, or would it also allow you to remain in Shadows if you would leave Shadows from a non-Cautious move? (assuming you were rolling an attack with the dagger in the same combo/card as that move).


I would say that you would remain in Shadows since the Hustle was played as a part of the Suicide Run special text. It would therefore be included in the combo and outside the normal rules.



I agree that you would stay in shadows because suicide run is not considered a "Move" and Hustle is simply adding squares to that card. I don't think you get your 2 base MP with suicide run, so you can move up to 2 before or after (and adjust your movement trait / adhere to shadows rules). There is a grey area if you use a hustle to add 2 squares to suicide run: do you have to use aggressive move trait? I want to say no.

 
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Charlie Theel
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logris wrote:
LordCyler wrote:
charlest wrote:
If I'm in Shadows and Suicide Run (leaving Shadows to attack) but trigger the Fate recipe on the Dagger I would stay in Shadows.

However, does anyone know if I'm in Shadows, Suicide Run, Add a Hustle Card to boost the suicide run, and trigger my Dagger - would I still stay in Shadows?

Basically, does the Dagger's "Remain in Shadows" Recipe only allow you to remain in Shadows if you would leave Shadows from an attack, or would it also allow you to remain in Shadows if you would leave Shadows from a non-Cautious move? (assuming you were rolling an attack with the dagger in the same combo/card as that move).


I would say that you would remain in Shadows since the Hustle was played as a part of the Suicide Run special text. It would therefore be included in the combo and outside the normal rules.



I agree that you would stay in shadows because suicide run is not considered a "Move" and Hustle is simply adding squares to that card. I don't think you get your 2 base MP with suicide run, so you can move up to 2 before or after (and adjust your movement trait / adhere to shadows rules). There is a grey area if you use a hustle to add 2 squares to suicide run: do you have to use aggressive move trait? I want to say no.



I believe it is as Kenny answered a question about this I believe.

But, if that's an aggressive move that doesn't mean you come out of Shadows. The question is whether the Dagger's Fate recipe will allow you to remain in Shadows if you play an Aggressive or Normal Move as part of a Combo.
 
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Steve Hajducko
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charlest wrote:

I believe it is as Kenny answered a question about this I believe.

But, if that's an aggressive move that doesn't mean you come out of Shadows. The question is whether the Dagger's Fate recipe will allow you to remain in Shadows if you play an Aggressive or Normal Move as part of a Combo.


Hrm, well, I don't know if you really consider the Hustle as part of the combo - I only say this, technically, because the other combo cards specify things like 'Shadows' or 'Shadow Reach' or 'After you play X', etc.

My thoughts on playing Hustle through Suicide Run:

a) It's an aggressive move
b) If you attack with the dagger and roll the FD that triggers the recipe, you stay in Shadows.

I think it has to count as an aggressive move for those cases where you don't have the dagger. If I just had my Butterknife and played Suicide Run + Hustle, I'd have considered myself to move aggressively. But since Hustle is part of the Suicide Run, and the Suicide Run is an attack, and if you attack with the Dagger, I think it allows you to stay in stealth if you trigger the recipe, but you would be marked as having moved aggressively.


 
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That interpretation makes the most sense to me. I see the aggressive move question answered now.

I'm still slightly bothered by the rule that you cannot move more than cautious and remain in shadows, but you could view the whole attack as happening simultaneously with the move and let the dagger override both, allowing you to remain in shadows.

I think [yet another] official ruling is required here in the end.

 
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J Larkin
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I have to disagree because of the way the Hustle cards interact with Suicide Run. Suicide Run specifically allows Hustle to be played to extend the attack. Every MP used from the Hustle cards played this way is an attack on those spaces and therefore is part of the attack, IMO.

 
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Steve Hajducko
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LordCyler wrote:

I have to disagree because of the way the Hustle cards interact with Suicide Run. Suicide Run specifically allows Hustle to be played to extend the attack. Every MP used from the Hustle cards played this way is an attack on those spaces and therefore is part of the attack, IMO.



I could see it both ways. The reason I'm leaning towards it counting as having moved aggressively is because you still take into account the penalties of Hustle when using it for Suicide Run - ie, you'd move the Darkness AP once for Suicide Run and then again for each Hustle you played.

I think the dagger can still work, because all of this is still packaged up in an attack action.
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