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Subject: Potential Unclarity with Items rss

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Wallace MacBix
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So below I have some questions regarding items (mostly their Fate Recipes). Some of these may be good enough to put into an Item explanation Reference Sheet (similar to the Hero Decks).


So far from the unofficial FaQ
Quote:
I.08 - Can you use a Fate recipe more than once?
Recipes can be used only once for every pool of Fate Dice that you roll. (Official Megacon Games Response)

G.08 - Reading through the rules and had a question about fate dice and the mechanic of their limit one use "recipe" application. If I am unable to score a hit on my target/targets TN (target number) are the fate dice not applicable?
That is correct. Fate dice are basically a resource that is spent if you are successful. There are a few exceptions but the items denote this.

G.09 - When I roll Fate Dice, can I choose to complete the same recipe multiple times if I have enough of the right result?
No, an ability from an item can only be activated once. Some items will have multiple FD abilities though and each ability can be activated once from the dice pool that it is rolled. Example: The Kelemite-Forged Blade (available in Slaughterfield only) has -2 AP if Rage is rolled and x2 damage if Rage and Guile is rolled. So if in one attack the player rolled 2 rage and 1 guile they could gain both effects. (Official Megacon Games Response)



I believe I've read the following things on the forums (but if you know otherwise let me know, my brain could be Swiss cheese on this).


You may only use a Fate Recipe on the item that is being used for the attack.

You may only use a Fate Recipe on a successful attack.

You do not need to use a Fate Recipe if you do not wish to.

Officially confirmed: When you don an item that gives +# Vitality your max Vitality and current Vitality go up by that amount. If you were later to remove that item (or have it destroyed) you would immediately lose that amount. If this brought you Vitality to 0 or less, you would die.

Official response: If an item has both a Primary Weapon and Secondary Weapon icons on it, it takes up both Equipment Slots. If there is a slash it means the item can be in either location



From the unofficial FaQ
Quote:
G.19 - Can items that give -AP or -Threat when triggered contribute a negative number to the running total? Ie. If I have two equipped items that can give -1AP and I trigger them both when using a 1AP action, does that actually decrease the Darkness AP meter?
Correct (Official Megacon Games Response)


Can you have a negative AP total? Official response: No, 0 is the minimum



-------------------
All Items

If an item is marked with a Quest symbol in the top right, can it only be gained via a quest and should be taken out of its normal item Deck for Treasure Draws?

Endevor Official: You can't buy it from a merchant Unknown about gaining them from a draw...

-------------------
White Items
From the unofficial FaQ
Quote:
I.03 - Is there a treasure discard for each treasure deck?
Once a treasure card has been discarded, (i.e. used potion, item sold to vendor etc.) then the discarded card(s) should be shuffled back into their respective treasure decks.


When you get a potion (as a treasure draw), I thought you take a potion token and place it in the inventory and shuffle the potion card back into the white item deck. Is this correct? Officially: yes The unofficial FaQ should have that part updated to be made more clear (just remove the "used potion").


-------------------
Green Items


Primary Weapons:

Dagger: How does the "stay in Shadows" work. Does it only cancel breaking Shadows from a successful attack, or does it also apply to breaking Shadows from a Normal or Aggressive move? D

Shortsword: Is this a bonus to Hustle Cards regardless of when they were played in the HC (so they provide +4 MP instead of +2) or is the effect itself +2 MP.

Staff: Does Blink require LoS or a clear path to the target square, and is it Teleport up to 2 squares or exactly 2 squares?

Wand: Official Response it allows another attack using the same dice pool against another target Can you chain this to keep attacking every target in range (Weapon Range 5)? Based on
Quote:
I.08 - Can you use a Fate recipe more than once?
Recipes can be used only once for every pool of Fate Dice that you roll. (Official Megacon Games Response)

it seems you can keep rolling till you miss or everything is dead.


Secondary Weapons:
Buckler: For this do you can choose any Adjacent minion

Dark Crystal: Can you choose the card from your discard pile or is it random?

Ornate Chalice: Does the healing effect only target you, or it target any other Hero?

Headgear:

Helm: Does this apply 1/DC, 1/enemy, or 1/attack?


Accessories:

Mythical Cloak: Just for clarity, the +1 MP Cautious Move added after you calculate your normal movement? (Ex: If your Normal Movement is 3, your base Cautious Movement would be 2. This card make your Cautious movements 3)

Ring of Kings: How does this interact with the Brigand's Unravel card, if at all? Official Response: Ring of Kings should read that when you draw tokens from the bag, draw one extra and then discard one. So, with Unravel, you'd get 3 tokens and choose 2 of them to keep.


------------------
Blue Items

Primary Weapons:

Blackwood Bow: Does Overdraw let you choose the direction of the "line 1 square away"? How much damage does that hit do (1 damage or the same damage/effect that the primary target received?).

Horrifying Spear: Official Response: "Hit next target in line 1 square away" means an additional target that you have not yet targeted Do you need to be able to apply a d10 to it's TN or is the hit automatic? Does the hit do the same damage/effects as to the initial target (would Devastate do 3 damage to the primary and then 3 damage to an additional target "in a line" up to range 2 away). Does Impale also require the additional target have to be "in a line" or can it be anything in range 4 of the Hero?

Umbral Blade: For "+1 MP in Shadows", does this apply to Normal Movement or Cautious Movement? Must you be in Shadows at the start of the HC to receive this bonus or can you move 2 squares, go into Shadows, and then move an additional square. For the Life Steal, does the target need to be an enemy attacked or any adjacent enemy? If the enemy was killed do you still gain Vitality, if the enemy only has 1 Vitality (either the same enemy after the attack or an adjacent enemy) do you only heal 1 (as per the Apprentice's Leech attack)?

War Drums: Can only the Skald equip this item (because of the guitar symbol)? Or can any Hero equip it to gain the "Save 2 cards during the HC" effect.


Secondary Weapons:

Bulwark: Why does this item have +2 FD if it does not have any recipes? [Unless armor and helm items or Shield attack skills later on will, it is pointless]. Does the bonus damage only apply to Shield Attack skills that do damage (stupid question I know, but I'm curious if this lets Impenetrable do 1 damage to everything that attacks the Soldier) Does the Rage provided by Impervious Wall take up an Action Slot or is the Rage "stacked" off to the side/on the Bulwark itself. Does the "when hit" mean that the Soldier must take damage from the enemy attack? [Can another Hero use an Interrupt to auto hit the Soldier and give him a bonus Rage?]

Endless quiver: For Retrieving 1 Ammo at the end of the HC, are arrows used that turn considered to be in the discard for the purposes of retrieving? Are arrows that you discard at the end of your turn available targets for this ability [if you have 3 arrows, and only play one in an Action Space to help reduce Threat, can this item put one from your hand directly in, and then put the 3rd arrow in the quiver because you discarded it?]

Shield of Light: When Invoke is used, does any additional Faith cards drawn add to the power of the spell that triggered this roll? When making more than 1 attack roll in a turn, do previous Fath cards get discarded from this Shield or will they stack with the next Invoke ability.


Headgear:

Helm of Command: Does this apply 1/DC, 1/enemy, or 1/attack? Can the rerolls be separated to 2 different attacks/enemies? Can you see 1 reroll before you decide if you wish to use the 2nd reroll? Does the redirected attack auto hit (like the Brigand's Like a Reed in the Wind) or do you need to roll. If the attack has a status effect does the enemy need to roll their FD or is it automatically hit/not hit at all. If it does hit, how long does it last for (forever like normal monster DoTs do?)


Armor:

Leather of the Lightless" Official Response: Invisible means that adjacent enemies do not get to roll a notice check

Mantle of Fate: I assume the FD is taken from your dice pool. Do you set the FD before or after you roll? Is this effect 1/HC, 1/attack, or 1/roll. I assume the +1MP from this item does not get combined with your base movement when determining Normal or Cautious moves.

Traitea's Battle Plate: I assume the +2 Threat does not apply to the Threat Penalty.


Accessories:

Destroyer's Vambrace: What does "Hit 1 adjacent target" mean and how much damage does it do? Does it only trigger during an attack card and lets that attack also target one monster adjacent? Does it do 1 damage/HC to one target of your choice? If there are only Heroes adjacent to the one with this item, must they hit an adjacent Hero? If they are using a healing or boosting effect does it let you hit an adjacent Hero for "free".

Kira's Tear: If you use Light of Leadrin do you still gain the +2 FD for that HC or is it's bonus lost immediately?

Ring of Niria: If an attack only does 1 damage, and it is absorbed by this item does it also negate any possible status effects? When do you choose to negate the 1 damage (before or after the FD roll)?

Shroud of Xa'ndria: Official response: The Heroes threat can never go above 8 threat and thus could never trigger the normal threat penalty? When is the -1 AP per Hero Cycle applied? At the start of the HC, at the end, the wear's choice?

------

I think that's all the possible problems I can see interpreting the text on the items. And a silly interpretation of Bulwarks +1 damage to Shield attacks.
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Jarad Bond
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Can you have a negative AP total? 0 is minimum on the Darkness Meter. (Kenny, megacon forums)

When you get a potion (as a treasure draw), I thought you take a potion token and place it in the inventory and shuffle the potion card back into the white item deck. Is this correct? Yes

If an item is marked with a Quest symbol in the top right, can it only be gained via a quest and should be taken out of its normal item Deck for Treasure Draws? You can't buy it from a merchant (Endevor), but I don't know about gaining it from a draw...

I guess that's how you should play the wand. Sounds pretty powerful, but you're probably going to have to get really lucky to chain that much, and then have threat problems if you do, so...
 
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Wallace MacBix
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logris wrote:
Can you have a negative AP total? 0 is minimum on the Darkness Meter. (Kenny, megacon forums)

When you get a potion (as a treasure draw), I thought you take a potion token and place it in the inventory and shuffle the potion card back into the white item deck. Is this correct? Yes

If an item is marked with a Quest symbol in the top right, can it only be gained via a quest and should be taken out of its normal item Deck for Treasure Draws? You can't buy it from a merchant (Endevor), but I don't know about gaining it from a draw...

I guess that's how you should play the wand. Sounds pretty powerful, but you're probably going to have to get really lucky to chain that much, and then have threat problems if you do, so...


Thanks for a couple of answers I've missed. I haven't had time to keep up with the megacon forums.

As for the wand, well it's not less Threat painful than any other of the Apprentice's AoE skills (and nothing says it wouldn't work well for other heroes).

Just looking at the Apprentice, Hero's Edge + Reservoir of the Ancients + Attack (with a wand). That's 5d10 and 5 FD to potentially it every target within 5 squares for 1 AP (a 60% chance to get another attack each time). Also if it was ever combo'ed with the Mantle of Fate you would never need to roll. Or for a more comical approach, a Solider using a Wand to Devastate 5 squares away.
 
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Naomi Nabbit
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Ring of Kings was answered by Kenny in the MCG forums. Ring of Kings should read that when you draw tokens from the bag, draw one extra and then discard one. So, with Unravel, you'd get 3 tokens and choose 2 of them to keep.
 
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Wallace MacBix
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nyren wrote:
Ring of Kings was answered by Kenny in the MCG forums. Ring of Kings should read that when you draw tokens from the bag, draw one extra and then discard one. So, with Unravel, you'd get 3 tokens and choose 2 of them to keep.


Thanks, I had a hunch that was the intent, but I wasn't sure.
 
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Mathue Faulkner
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Here is a little clarification on Horrifying Spear:
http://boardgamegeek.com/article/14509335#14509335

I'm not sure where you got your official answer, but it doesn't seem to completely jive with Brian's response linked above (or maybe I'm just misunderstanding the context of your official answer). Brian's response seems more in line with the text on the card though...
 
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Jeremy Steward
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These are pretty much all opinions

and I can only answer some, because I don't have the game so I don't have the cards in front of me.

-------------------
Green Items


Primary Weapons:

Dagger: How does the "stay in Shadows" work. Does it only cancel breaking Shadows from a successful attack, or does it also apply to breaking Shadows from a Normal or Aggressive move? The way I see it, the circumstances doesn't matter - if you get the fate recipe you stay in shadows. I would even argue that if you did the reach/touch combo and got the recipe on the reach but not on the touch, since it is more or less treated as a single attack.

Shortsword: Is this a bonus to Hustle Cards regardless of when they were played in the HC (so they provide +4 MP instead of +2) or is the effect itself +2 MP. Hustle gives you +2 MP to use at any time in the HC, so I would argue that if you get the recipe, since the hustle card is still in play - would provide an additional 2 MP

Staff: Does Blink require LoS or a clear path to the target square, and is it Teleport up to 2 squares or exactly 2 squares? I know healing doesn't require LoS, which tells me that only attacks use LoS - so no.

Wand: Official Response it allows another attack using the same dice pool against another target Can you chain this to keep attacking every target in range (Weapon Range 5)? Based on
Quote:
I.08 - Can you use a Fate recipe more than once?
Recipes can be used only once for every pool of Fate Dice that you roll. (Official Megacon Games Response)

it seems you can keep rolling till you miss or everything is dead.
I don't like it that much, but I agree.


Secondary Weapons:
Buckler: For this do you can choose any Adjacent minion

Dark Crystal: Can you choose the card from your discard pile or is it random?

Ornate Chalice: Does the healing effect only target you, or it target any other Hero?

Headgear:

Helm: Does this apply 1/DC, 1/enemy, or 1/attack?


Accessories:

Mythical Cloak: Just for clarity, the +1 MP Cautious Move added after you calculate your normal movement? (Ex: If your Normal Movement is 3, your base Cautious Movement would be 2. This card make your Cautious movements 3) I agree with this

Ring of Kings: How does this interact with the Brigand's Unravel card, if at all? Official Response: Ring of Kings should read that when you draw tokens from the bag, draw one extra and then discard one. So, with Unravel, you'd get 3 tokens and choose 2 of them to keep.


------------------
Blue Items

Primary Weapons:

Blackwood Bow: Does Overdraw let you choose the direction of the "line 1 square away"? How much damage does that hit do (1 damage or the same damage/effect that the primary target received?). What I would do is draw your los line and extend it past and that tile is the affected tile.

Horrifying Spear: Official Response: "Hit next target in line 1 square away" means an additional target that you have not yet targeted Do you need to be able to apply a d10 to it's TN or is the hit automatic? Does the hit do the same damage/effects as to the initial target (would Devastate do 3 damage to the primary and then 3 damage to an additional target "in a line" up to range 2 away). Does Impale also require the additional target have to be "in a line" or can it be anything in range 4 of the Hero? The "hit next target" is definitely an aoe-like effect and requires a separate TN. For Impale however, I think you do it as worded and do 2 damage to an enemy.

Umbral Blade: For "+1 MP in Shadows", does this apply to Normal Movement or Cautious Movement? Must you be in Shadows at the start of the HC to receive this bonus or can you move 2 squares, go into Shadows, and then move an additional square. For the Life Steal, does the target need to be an enemy attacked or any adjacent enemy? If the enemy was killed do you still gain Vitality, if the enemy only has 1 Vitality (either the same enemy after the attack or an adjacent enemy) do you only heal 1 (as per the Apprentice's Leech attack)?
What I am thinking is this: lets say your normal move is 4 MP - you could move 3 spaces and keep shadows, or move 5 spaces and lose shadows. However if you moved 4 spaces and lost shadows you would also lose the extra MP. If you were out of shadows, moved 4 MP, and then entered shadows-you would get an extra MP but it would still be a normal move and you would lose shadows.
I'm pretty sure the life steal has to target the enemy you attacked and since it is after your regular damage, the enemy would still have to have health left to steal. And I'm pretty sure you only gain as much as you take.


War Drums: Can only the Skald equip this item (because of the guitar symbol)? Or can any Hero equip it to gain the "Save 2 cards during the HC" effect. No equipment is actually restricted, so as long as the "Save 2 cards" effect is passive, its fine.


Secondary Weapons:

Bulwark: Why does this item have +2 FD if it does not have any recipes? [Unless armor and helm items or Shield attack skills later on will, it is pointless]. Does the bonus damage only apply to Shield Attack skills that do damage (stupid question I know, but I'm curious if this lets Impenetrable do 1 damage to everything that attacks the Soldier) Does the Rage provided by Impervious Wall take up an Action Slot or is the Rage "stacked" off to the side/on the Bulwark itself. Does the "when hit" mean that the Soldier must take damage from the enemy attack? [Can another Hero use an Interrupt to auto hit the Soldier and give him a bonus Rage?]
The FD is likely an oversight.
The card usually tells you if its an attack, Impevious is not an attck, however "The Yoke is Heavy" is one that normally does no damage but it would with the bulwark.
The +1 rage has to be stacked on the side - makes no sense otherwise.


Endless quiver: For Retrieving 1 Ammo at the end of the HC, are arrows used that turn considered to be in the discard for the purposes of retrieving? Are arrows that you discard at the end of your turn available targets for this ability [if you have 3 arrows, and only play one in an Action Space to help reduce Threat, can this item put one from your hand directly in, and then put the 3rd arrow in the quiver because you discarded it?] When you use an arrow from the quiver, it is discarded immediately. Also, you discard card from actions spaces and cards from your hand in the "Hero Deck Phase" which happens after the "End of the Hero Cycle"

Shield of Light: When Invoke is used, does any additional Faith cards drawn add to the power of the spell that triggered this roll? When making more than 1 attack roll in a turn, do previous Fath cards get discarded from this Shield or will they stack with the next Invoke ability. The FD recipe takes place after the attack on the card


Headgear:

Helm of Command: Does this apply 1/DC, 1/enemy, or 1/attack? Can the rerolls be separated to 2 different attacks/enemies? Can you see 1 reroll before you decide if you wish to use the 2nd reroll? Does the redirected attack auto hit (like the Brigand's Like a Reed in the Wind) or do you need to roll. If the attack has a status effect does the enemy need to roll their FD or is it automatically hit/not hit at all. If it does hit, how long does it last for (forever like normal monster DoTs do?)


Armor:

Leather of the Lightless" Official Response: Invisible means that adjacent enemies do not get to roll a notice check

Mantle of Fate: I assume the FD is taken from your dice pool. Do you set the FD before or after you roll? Is this effect 1/HC, 1/attack, or 1/roll. I assume the +1MP from this item does not get combined with your base movement when determining Normal or Cautious moves. Generally 1 per roll

Traitea's Battle Plate: I assume the +2 Threat does not apply to the Threat Penalty.
The card says "To darkness Priority" so no, it doesn't apply to threat penalty

Accessories:

Destroyer's Vambrace: What does "Hit 1 adjacent target" mean and how much damage does it do? Does it only trigger during an attack card and lets that attack also target one monster adjacent? Does it do 1 damage/HC to one target of your choice? If there are only Heroes adjacent to the one with this item, must they hit an adjacent Hero? If they are using a healing or boosting effect does it let you hit an adjacent Hero for "free".
"Hit 1 adjacent target" essentially mean treat your attack as if it was an aoe and does the damage on the card. Heroes aren't a "target".

Kira's Tear: If you use Light of Leadrin do you still gain the +2 FD for that HC or is it's bonus lost immediately? Generally, cards only give their effect while they are in play.

Ring of Niria: If an attack only does 1 damage, and it is absorbed by this item does it also negate any possible status effects? When do you choose to negate the 1 damage (before or after the FD roll)? If an attack doesn't hit, it doesn' roll a FD.

Shroud of Xa'ndria: Official response: The Heroes threat can never go above 8 threat and thus could never trigger the normal threat penalty? When is the -1 AP per Hero Cycle applied? At the start of the HC, at the end, the wear's choice?

------

I think that's all the possible problems I can see interpreting the text on the items. And a silly interpretation of Bulwarks +1 damage to Shield attacks.
 
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Wallace MacBix
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Deadwolf wrote:
These are pretty much all opinions

and I can only answer some, because I don't have the game so I don't have the cards in front of me.

-------------------
Green Items


Primary Weapons:

Dagger: How does the "stay in Shadows" work. Does it only cancel breaking Shadows from a successful attack, or does it also apply to breaking Shadows from a Normal or Aggressive move? The way I see it, the circumstances doesn't matter - if you get the fate recipe you stay in shadows. I would even argue that if you did the reach/touch combo and got the recipe on the reach but not on the touch, since it is more or less treated as a single attack.


They aren't treated as a single attack. You make 2 separate rolls (and can hit different targets). Also it is still unclear if the combos even happen one after the other (if Shadow's Reach puts you to 6+ AP the DC should trigger before you can play Shadow's Touch, at least it isn't stated that it overrides the base rules). So I'd argue you would need 2 successful fate rolls (arguably one, but specifically on the Shadow's Touch, but I still think it's two).



Quote:
Shortsword: Is this a bonus to Hustle Cards regardless of when they were played in the HC (so they provide +4 MP instead of +2) or is the effect itself +2 MP. Hustle gives you +2 MP to use at any time in the HC, so I would argue that if you get the recipe, since the hustle card is still in play - would provide an additional 2 MP


I'd still argue the wording, on the blue shield it says "works like a prayer card", they could have used the same terms here "works like a hustle card" but they didn't, or just "+2 MP". Also, if you use this Fate Recipe then you much be considered to be Aggressively Moving, which means if you chose anything less than that for your Attack Action you wouldn't be able to benefit from this recipe.


Blue Items

Primary Weapons:

Blackwood Bow: Does Overdraw let you choose the direction of the "line 1 square away"? How much damage does that hit do (1 damage or the same damage/effect that the primary target received?). What I would do is draw your los line and extend it past and that tile is the affected tile.[/q]

And if you are shooting on a diagonal? (as no other AoE type ability can target on a diagonal). Plus nothing in the rules suggest this.


Quote:
Umbral Blade: For "+1 MP in Shadows", does this apply to Normal Movement or Cautious Movement? Must you be in Shadows at the start of the HC to receive this bonus or can you move 2 squares, go into Shadows, and then move an additional square. For the Life Steal, does the target need to be an enemy attacked or any adjacent enemy? If the enemy was killed do you still gain Vitality, if the enemy only has 1 Vitality (either the same enemy after the attack or an adjacent enemy) do you only heal 1 (as per the Apprentice's Leech attack)?
What I am thinking is this: lets say your normal move is 4 MP - you could move 3 spaces and keep shadows, or move 5 spaces and lose shadows. However if you moved 4 spaces and lost shadows you would also lose the extra MP. If you were out of shadows, moved 4 MP, and then entered shadows-you would get an extra MP but it would still be a normal move and you would lose shadows.
I'm pretty sure the life steal has to target the enemy you attacked and since it is after your regular damage, the enemy would still have to have health left to steal. And I'm pretty sure you only gain as much as you take.


They (Kenny) have said that if you do a Normal or Aggressive Move and then enter Shadows it will not break Shadows. Also I find it odd that it lets you move at full speed, enter Shadows and then gain +1 MP. As for the Lifesteal, there are items like the Buckler which let you knock 1 minion prone, but if you can only hit an initial target it would never activate (the minion would die from the attack before you could knock it prone), also for this item the Lifesteal would never activate vs. minions (only Lairs, Captains, mini-bosses, and Bosses), even then if you had a higher damage attack targeting a Captain it only would reduce the Lifesteal.


Quote:
War Drums: Can only the Skald equip this item (because of the guitar symbol)? Or can any Hero equip it to gain the "Save 2 cards during the HC" effect. No equipment is actually restricted, so as long as the "Save 2 cards" effect is passive, its fine.


There is still the unexplained guitar symbol on the card.


Quote:
Endless quiver: For Retrieving 1 Ammo at the end of the HC, are arrows used that turn considered to be in the discard for the purposes of retrieving? Are arrows that you discard at the end of your turn available targets for this ability [if you have 3 arrows, and only play one in an Action Space to help reduce Threat, can this item put one from your hand directly in, and then put the 3rd arrow in the quiver because you discarded it?] When you use an arrow from the quiver, it is discarded immediately. Also, you discard card from actions spaces and cards from your hand in the "Hero Deck Phase" which happens after the "End of the Hero Cycle"


I could be wrong, but I don't remember reading that in the rules anywhere, about discarding an Arrow after playing it from the quiver.

Quote:
Mantle of Fate: I assume the FD is taken from your dice pool. Do you set the FD before or after you roll? Is this effect 1/HC, 1/attack, or 1/roll. I assume the +1MP from this item does not get combined with your base movement when determining Normal or Cautious moves. Generally 1 per roll


Sure, but there are exceptions where it's only 1/HC, and the text here is unclear.


Quote:
Destroyer's Vambrace: What does "Hit 1 adjacent target" mean and how much damage does it do? Does it only trigger during an attack card and lets that attack also target one monster adjacent? Does it do 1 damage/HC to one target of your choice? If there are only Heroes adjacent to the one with this item, must they hit an adjacent Hero? If they are using a healing or boosting effect does it let you hit an adjacent Hero for "free".
"Hit 1 adjacent target" essentially mean treat your attack as if it was an aoe and does the damage on the card. Heroes aren't a "target".


Heroes are a target for AoE attacks, healing skills, and buff skills.


Quote:
Ring of Niria: If an attack only does 1 damage, and it is absorbed by this item does it also negate any possible status effects? When do you choose to negate the 1 damage (before or after the FD roll)? If an attack doesn't hit, it doesn' roll a FD.


This doesn't negate and attack. It absorbs 1 damage. The attack still hits but it does -1 damage. Does 0 damage turn a successful hit into a "miss".
 
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Steve Hajducko
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Quote:
They aren't treated as a single attack. You make 2 separate rolls (and can hit different targets). Also it is still unclear if the combos even happen one after the other (if Shadow's Reach puts you to 6+ AP the DC should trigger before you can play Shadow's Touch, at least it isn't stated that it overrides the base rules). So I'd argue you would need 2 successful fate rolls (arguably one, but specifically on the Shadow's Touch, but I still think it's two).


They aren't treated as a single attack, but because it's a combo, you are still considered to be in Shadows during the second attack and receive the bonus (+2FD) for being so. I'd say that you'd only need to proc the dagger on Shadows Touch in order to remain in Shadows after the full attack.

I'd also consider them a continuos action (I may be wrong) for dealing with the nature of the combo, the Darkness AP and other heroes actions. In other words, in order for it to be considered a 'combo', the cards need to be played in an immediate manner. I cannot, for instance, play SR, wait for the Soldier to perform an action, then play Shadows Touch as a combo card. Similarly, I think you could play all the cards (SR and ST) and if you hit 6 darkness AP in between, could still finish the combo.

This all comes from my view of combos as more of a quick 1-2 punch, although as I said, it's possible they are not considered as such
 
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Jeremy Steward
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Yah, the dagger with reach/touch could go either way. I don't really know the right answer. I think since its all in combo and shadows only goes away at the end, you only need it to proc once. But if you want to make it harder on your brigand go ahead.

What is the exact wording on the shortsword? But non-attacks give their benefits for the duration of the time they are in play.

Blackwood Bow: If you were firing diagonal, I would continue the line to the next diagonal square. This is just my opinion.

Is war drums an offhand? If so, the symbol is probably like the relic/focus symbol. And is the "keep 2 cards" passive or a FD recipe?

When you play an action card that uses an arrow, The arrow is discarded. How else do you think retrieve works? This is demonstrated in the gameplay vids.

For Destroyers Vambrace: This is like fingers of ia or orions tears in which you are actually targeting and not a true area of effect like blood of gaia. (Blood of Gaia attacks the square, but here you are attacking an adjacent target, that is the difference)

Ring of Niria: On second thought, the monster would probably still roll a FD and it only absorbs the damage not the FD.

 
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Wallace MacBix
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Deadwolf wrote:
Yah, the dagger with reach/touch could go either way. I don't really know the right answer. I think since its all in combo and shadows only goes away at the end, you only need it to proc once. But if you want to make it harder on your brigand go ahead.


Ah, don't know if I saw an official response about Shadows only going away at the end of a combo. Good to know


Quote:
What is the exact wording on the shortsword? But non-attacks give their benefits for the duration of the time they are in play.


Special
Hustle: +2 MP.


Quote:
Blackwood Bow: If you were firing diagonal, I would continue the line to the next diagonal square. This is just my opinion.


If normal AoE could be fired diagonally I'd agree, but I've seen them say that they can only be fired orthogonally. And since the bonus is similar to an AoE it should follow the same rules (instead of having unique rules for 1-2 items).

Quote:
Is war drums an offhand? If so, the symbol is probably like the relic/focus symbol. And is the "keep 2 cards" passive or a FD recipe?


The War Drums is both hands (like the green staff). And I assume you're right that it's the Skald's "secondary" symbol.

+3 FD

Special:
Play 4 Verses.
Save 2 cards during Hero Deck Phase.

Deep Echoes: -2 Threat & -2 AP


Quote:
When you play an action card that uses an arrow, The arrow is discarded. How else do you think retrieve works? This is demonstrated in the gameplay vids.


Retrieve works just as well on a turn after you use the arrows. I've been just "turning them over" (similar to an Ongoing) in my quiver and discarding them during the Hero Deck Phase, because I saw nothing mentioned in the book or other pdfs (that I remember).



Quote:
For Destroyers Vambrace: This is like fingers of ia or orions tears in which you are actually targeting and not a true area of effect like blood of gaia. (Blood of Gaia attacks the square, but here you are attacking an adjacent target, that is the difference)


I'll agree with Orion's Tears that you should never target a Hero. But the wording on Fingers of Ia says "the attack jumps to the next closest target (up to 2 squares away from the last target)....always hits new targets first before jumping to previously hit targets." Until the text is cleared up or something else is stated, I still think a Hero can be a target of this card if they are the only available target. (It should never happen because the Apprentice can choose how many Ongoings to clear, but technically if a Hero is standing next to the initial target and all enemies are 2+ squares away, the spell must target him before it can hit an enemy.

Since Destroyers Vambrace use the same language "adjacent target" I still think it's a bit ambiguous.

Quote:
Ring of Niria: On second thought, the monster would probably still roll a FD and it only absorbs the damage not the FD.


That's how I interpret this (and the Apprentice's skill that does the same thing). Though one could argue that thematically that 0 damage means the attack is too weak to inflict poison/etc.
 
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Jeremy Steward
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For the shortsword, I still maintain that if you played a hustle card earlier and then get the recipe, you instantly get +2 MP, because like I said, even though you have played the card already, the card is still in play.

Blackwood bow: You can attack diagonally, therefore the next tile can also be diagonal. Other aoes are only orthogonal because their cards specifically say they are.

War Drums: You could equip it on a character and get to use the save 2 cards and Deep echoes because it is a main hand (No card is actually restricted). But the fact that it gives 0 d10 makes it pretty crappy for existing heroes. I'm not sure why they included it in the base game.

Arrows are definitely discarded immediately. Action cards are flipped over because their spaces have to remain covered for threat purposes.

Vampires embrace: Because it says "Hit 1 adjacent target" that means you have to assign a d10 to it. If it is a hero, you can elect not to.

Also, if you let me know what Buckler, Dark Crystal, Ornate Chalice, Helm, Mythical Cloak, and Kira's Tear do, I can give you my thoughts, I couldn't tell from your description. It's cool if you don't want to bother.
 
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Steve Hajducko
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Quote:
Ah, don't know if I saw an official response about Shadows only going away at the end of a combo. Good to know


I can try and find the official statement, I know it's somewhere. It can also be implied from the official statement on Unseen Ally, since it's been ruled that playing UA after a successful Shadows Reach allows you to stay in Shadows, not to mention that to even play UA it requires you to be in Shadows to begin with, so you are most definitely considered to still be in Shadows for the second card of the combo.

Whether you only need to proc the dagger once or twice is more iffy. I think only once, but that's just a best guess.
 
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[q="Deadwolf"]For the shortsword, I still maintain that if you played a hustle card earlier and then get the recipe, you instantly get +2 MP, because like I said, even though you have played the card already, the card is still in play.


Oh I agree that you get +2MP, but are you getting +2 MP because the Recipe just gives you +2MP or does it make all Hustle cards provide a bonus 2MP (for +4MP total/Hustle). Heck do you even need to play a Hustle card to benefit from the +2MP that the item provides. And how does the Recipe interact with the different Movement Rules (do you only gain the benefit if you chose to Move Aggressively, because it's a Hustle?)

Quote:
Blackwood bow: You can attack diagonally, therefore the next tile can also be diagonal. Other aoes are only orthogonal because their cards specifically say they are.


Very good point.

Quote:
War Drums: You could equip it on a character and get to use the save 2 cards and Deep echoes because it is a main hand (No card is actually restricted). But the fact that it gives 0 d10 makes it pretty crappy for existing heroes. I'm not sure why they included it in the base game.


I agree. I "knew" that's how it would work, but it is still really unclear with the base game (and even if we know the answer I think it's good to point out things that aren't clear without research so the guys at Mercs can hopefully make a good comprehensive FaQ and/or get a redesign for the cards to make them easier to understand).

Also I agree, the item is terrible unless you bought the Skald Hero (also how is someone suppose to know what a guitar symbol means on the card without knowing that a Bard hero even exists). And that's my biggest complaint of this game, the "base game" is so not standalone it hurts.

Quote:
Arrows are definitely discarded immediately. Action cards are flipped over because their spaces have to remain covered for threat purposes.


Well that makes the Archer stronger that I previously thought. Do you have a reference for this, because I don't remember seeing anything that states this.


Quote:
Vampires embrace: Because it says "Hit 1 adjacent target" that means you have to assign a d10 to it. If it is a hero, you can elect not to.


Ah again good point. I guess that also means that it would only apply to attack cards (and not heals/buffs/etc.) because even if you can "hit" more than one of them, you never make an attack roll for them.


Quote:
Also, if you let me know what Buckler, Dark Crystal, Ornate Chalice, Helm, Mythical Cloak, and Kira's Tear do, I can give you my thoughts, I couldn't tell from your description. It's cool if you don't want to bother.


Sure thing, I like debating stuff, pointing out potential unclarity based on the written rules, or coming up with "broken" combos. I also forget that everyone in EU doesn't have the game yet. But it's late, and I don't exactly remember what I said them to begin with, so here's the cards before I go pass out. (Also I'm sure I "know" the answer to some questions I asked, or at least I can guess, but in my opinion a lot of the item cards have unclear text which don't have any clarification in the rule book)

Buckler
+1d10, +1 TN
Special
Knocks 1 Minion Prone

Dark Crystal (relic)
+2d10, +1 FD
Special
Retrieve 1 Hero Card from discard and add to the top of draw pile.


Ornate Chalice (relic)
+2d10, +1 FD
Special
Heal 1 Vitality

Helm
+1 Vitality
Special
May force enemy to reroll 1 FD attacking this Hero

Mythical Cloak (accessory)
+1 FD
Special
+1 MP to Cautious Move

Kira's Tear (accessory)
+2 FD
Special
Light of Leadrin: Reduces AP cost of every Hero card to zero for 1 Hero Cycle. Destroys item after use.

(just realized that this will always create a Loitering Penalty unless you play a 1+ AP card before you use the special effect, unless its effect was retroactive)

 
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Jeremy Steward
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Shortsword: It makes a hustle card give an addition 2 MP, so, you would need both the recipe and play a hustle card to get +4 MP. I would also argue that the recipe affects all hustle cards played.

Arrows: I don't think it is printed anywhere. They get discarded in the videos and there is nothing saying they aren't discarded. You know they are "spent", I'm not sure why you would assume otherwise.


Secondary Weapons:
Buckler: For this do you can choose any Adjacent minion. I think it has to be a target affected but not 100%

Dark Crystal: Can you choose the card from your discard pile or is it random? I would have to assume you can choose since it doesn't specify - that is really strong.

Ornate Chalice: Does the healing effect only target you, or it target any other Hero? not 100% but I would have to say only you or else it would specify otherwise

Headgear:

Helm: Does this apply 1/DC, 1/enemy, or 1/attack? 1 per attack

Kira's Tear: If you use Light of Leadrin do you still gain the +2 FD for that HC or is it's bonus lost immediately? Yah, you lose the +2 FD.

And yah - it totally invokes loitering. I'm actually seriously considering a houserule that allows a hero to play a facedown & sideways card (to distinguish it from rage) to an action space to increase the AP by 1. This allows loitering to do what it is suppose to and not punish bad hands and situations like this.
 
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Deadwolf wrote:
Shortsword: It makes a hustle card give an addition 2 MP, so, you would need both the recipe and play a hustle card to get +4 MP. I would also argue that the recipe affects all hustle cards played.


I think that's my preferred interpretation and causes the least amount of pain when trying to determine movement restrictions.

Quote:
Arrows: I don't think it is printed anywhere. They get discarded in the videos and there is nothing saying they aren't discarded. You know they are "spent", I'm not sure why you would assume otherwise.


Ah I haven't seen all of the videos (or I may have missed that part). And I just figured for consistency's sake it would follow a similar mechanic to ongoing.


Quote:
Buckler: For this do you can choose any Adjacent minion. I think it has to be a target affected but not 100%


Well if it has to be the target hit by the skill I'd call it near useless. Of the 3 attack Shield cards, only This Yoke is Heavy doesn't do damage, and it's effect already knocks a Captain or Minion prone.

If it doesn't have to be the target, it's pretty powerful for a green. Since Riding the Edge makes you make 1 attack per target, in the below example (if the Soldier gets lucky rolls) you can kill 4 minions and knock another 4 prone.

XSX
XMM
XMM
XMM
XMM



Quote:
Kira's Tear: If you use Light of Leadrin do you still gain the +2 FD for that HC or is it's bonus lost immediately? Yah, you lose the +2 FD.

And yah - it totally invokes loitering. I'm actually seriously considering a houserule that allows a hero to play a facedown & sideways card (to distinguish it from rage) to an action space to increase the AP by 1. This allows loitering to do what it is suppose to and not punish bad hands and situations like this.


That may be a good house rule if loitering stays the same as it is now (and sometimes it just doesn't make sense). I don't like mechanics that punish players because of random. In a 2-3 player game it is probable that a Soldier only gets interrupts (or attacks that they can't use from where they are), an Archer only gets arrows (or attack cards that require arrows when they have none), a Brigand gets cards that makes them be in Shadows but they aren't, etc.

I haven't tested it, but something like (# of players)/2 (rounded up) AP is added to the AP meter if the Heroes are caught loitering seems more of a mechanic in line with the game's intent (but it still doesn't penalize a group for sitting on the edge of a tile to heal).


Also if you think about it, the Loitering mechanic is almost pointless (after a couple of games anyways).

1) It only lasts for the Act, which is usually 3-5 tiles
2) Unless you are specifically trying to maximize treasure, on some tiles it's hard to the treasure limit to begin with (4x6 and a 6x6 with no lair).
3) If you got good treasure earlier in the Act (or from a previous act, if playing a Story) what do you need more for, as you'll just be selling it and hoping you can get a potion merchant.

And the big ones
4) As soon as you get 2-3 titles (so ~6-9 games) you really don't need more treasure. Outside of keeping some of the blue armors/helms, each character wants their blue weapon and secondary. After 2 titles who cares if you can only get 2-3 treasure per tile as you won't exactly need it ever again (until you have to go out and buy a treasure expansion deck).
5) As your team plays the game they will be removing a lot (and all eventually) of the white tokens and adding the 5 blue tokens. So a ~1/5 chance to draw a blue by the time you have 2-3 titles. From there it's just a formality.

So really loitering only hurts new parties, once you have 2-3 blue items and titles to keep them what do you care? If you're a decked out Soldier with 1 Vitality and in a "safe spot" wouldn't you just wait for the Acolyte to heal you instead of drinking the parties last Vitality Potion, regardless if it means the last tile will only have 2 treasure instead of 5?
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Mathue Faulkner
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FALCN120 wrote:

Well if it has to be the target hit by the skill I'd call it near useless. Of the 3 attack Shield cards, only This Yoke is Heavy doesn't do damage, and it's effect already knocks a Captain or Minion prone.

If it doesn't have to be the target, it's pretty powerful for a green. Since Riding the Edge makes you make 1 attack per target, in the below example (if the Soldier gets lucky rolls) you can kill 4 minions and knock another 4 prone.

XSX
XMM
XMM
XMM
XMM


You still only make one roll per Monster Type (although I think it's technically per TN), so you'd only be able to knock one other prone...unless there are multiple TNs.

Knocking a separate enemy from the targeted enemy is the only thing that makes sense...
 
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Mathue Faulkner
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Also, the Wand is ridiculously powerful for it's cost if that is the official answer. My wife chained 5 attacks tonight with the Acolyte's Smite card. If you combine the Wand with a Focus Potion, that single attack can obliterate a tile (while racking up Threat of course...).
 
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Jeremy Steward
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I'm going to see if I can try and get an official answer with the wand this week. Its seems a little broken to me. One thought I had was that you only roll FDs from attacks from cards but seems like a stretch.
 
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Rolfe Bergstrom
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mfaulk80 wrote:
FALCN120 wrote:

Well if it has to be the target hit by the skill I'd call it near useless. Of the 3 attack Shield cards, only This Yoke is Heavy doesn't do damage, and it's effect already knocks a Captain or Minion prone.

If it doesn't have to be the target, it's pretty powerful for a green. Since Riding the Edge makes you make 1 attack per target, in the below example (if the Soldier gets lucky rolls) you can kill 4 minions and knock another 4 prone.

XSX
XMM
XMM
XMM
XMM


You still only make one roll per Monster Type (although I think it's technically per TN), so you'd only be able to knock one other prone...unless there are multiple TNs.

Knocking a separate enemy from the targeted enemy is the only thing that makes sense...


Pretty sure you roll just once for the action, and then assign the dice to the targets based on TN. See page 20 of the rule book.

So with the diagram above, even if you were moving through multiple minion types (via riding the edge) you'd roll just once. You'd resolve the movement and damage that came from it, and knock Prone any one minion that you didn't kill. They wouldn't necessarily have to be a minion you targeted, but they would have to be within the 1 range of your shield at some point during that action.


Deadwolf wrote:
Shortsword: It makes a hustle card give an addition 2 MP, so, you would need both the recipe and play a hustle card to get +4 MP. I would also argue that the recipe affects all hustle cards played.


I’m not convinced that the “Hustle:” on the shortsword means it affects the Hustle card in any way, or requires the Hustle card. I think they’re trying to say that the power is itself named hustle. There's a pretty solid precedent that if it required the Hustle card it would actively say "Requires - Hustle" the way Shadow's Reach says "Requires - Shadow", etc.

Compare the Shortsword's "Hustle:" to the “Impale:” power on Horrifying Spear, or the "Overdraw:" power on the Blackwood Bow. On the spear it’s clear that the power doesn’t require you to play the “Impale” action card, nor does it modify the function of the “Impale” action card in some way… because there is no “Impale” card in any deck. Instead, on that card it’s really clear that “Impale” is just the name of the ability on the spear. Same thing for "Overdraw:" on the bow.

I think “Hustle” on the Shortsword is the same thing -- just the name of the power. (A power that gives you +2 MP every time you roll a Guile on an attack.)
 
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Mathue Faulkner
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R_b_bergstrom wrote:
mfaulk80 wrote:
FALCN120 wrote:

Well if it has to be the target hit by the skill I'd call it near useless. Of the 3 attack Shield cards, only This Yoke is Heavy doesn't do damage, and it's effect already knocks a Captain or Minion prone.

If it doesn't have to be the target, it's pretty powerful for a green. Since Riding the Edge makes you make 1 attack per target, in the below example (if the Soldier gets lucky rolls) you can kill 4 minions and knock another 4 prone.

XSX
XMM
XMM
XMM
XMM


You still only make one roll per Monster Type (although I think it's technically per TN), so you'd only be able to knock one other prone...unless there are multiple TNs.

Knocking a separate enemy from the targeted enemy is the only thing that makes sense...


Pretty sure you roll just once for the action, and then assign the dice to the targets based on TN. See page 20 of the rule book.

So with the diagram above, even if you were moving through multiple minion types (via riding the edge) you'd roll just once. You'd resolve the movement and damage that came from it, and knock Prone any one minion that you didn't kill. They wouldn't necessarily have to be a minion you targeted, but they would have to be within the 1 range of your shield at some point during that action.

Yep. You're right. That's how we've been playing...not sure why I forgot that when typing my response.
 
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Jeremy Steward
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R_b_bergstrom wrote:


I’m not convinced that the “Hustle:” on the shortsword means it affects the Hustle card in any way, or requires the Hustle card. I think they’re trying to say that the power is itself named hustle. There's a pretty solid precedent that if it required the Hustle card it would actively say "Requires - Hustle" the way Shadow's Reach says "Requires - Shadow", etc.

Compare the Shortsword's "Hustle:" to the “Impale:” power on Horrifying Spear, or the "Overdraw:" power on the Blackwood Bow. On the spear it’s clear that the power doesn’t require you to play the “Impale” action card, nor does it modify the function of the “Impale” action card in some way… because there is no “Impale” card in any deck. Instead, on that card it’s really clear that “Impale” is just the name of the ability on the spear. Same thing for "Overdraw:" on the bow.

I think “Hustle” on the Shortsword is the same thing -- just the name of the power. (A power that gives you +2 MP every time you roll a Guile on an attack.)


You are probably right. Serves me right for giving card clarifications without the actual cards.
 
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R_b_bergstrom wrote:
I think “Hustle” on the Shortsword is the same thing -- just the name of the power. (A power that gives you +2 MP every time you roll a Guile on an attack.)


I can accept that, but how does it combine with movement restrictions. I'd assume it's be +2 to your Normal Movement and then you'd calculate how much you get based on what restriction you chose when you played your attack card. But I could see it going either way (and I can still see it as a buff to the card specifically).


----------

Also I just thought of another problem. The Boots of Speed say "Aggressive Moves are considered to be Normal Moves", does that make cards that must be played as Aggressive (Riding the Edge for example) useless and unplayable?
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Mathue Faulkner
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Here is a silly question:

For the Buckler, the +1 TN is a defensive ability, right? It's not a +1TN on attack....right?

 
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Jarad Bond
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FALCN120 wrote:
Also I just thought of another problem. The Boots of Speed say "Aggressive Moves are considered to be Normal Moves", does that make cards that must be played as Aggressive (Riding the Edge for example) useless and unplayable?


That's golden. Obviously we need to use common sense here, but their inability to write cohesive rules is showing...


mfaulk80 wrote:
For the Buckler, the +1 TN is a defensive ability, right? It's not a +1TN on attack....right?


Yep, common sense here too. (Even though every other ability written on the cards applies to the hero and this one apparently applies to the enemies)
 
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