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Subject: Russian Railroads or Lewis and Clark? rss

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Jools Thomas
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I've got a 10 euro voucher for amazon de and am going to get a game. I'm torn between these two. For those that have played both, which should I get?
 
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Christian Gienger
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Judging on your ratings, you probably prefer Lewis & Clark as Russian Railroads might be too dry.
Also you should post such questions to Recommendations in the future.
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Christopher Dearlove
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Both excellent games. Russian Railroads wins for me, but our club also contains someone who rates L&C extremely highly. So it's really down to what sort of games you like. But in a way, they both have their similarities of rewarding people who can both have a plan, and can micro-manage (meaning, yes, you want to do this and that, but which one now).
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Mike Stevens
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I have played both and prefer Russian Railroads. It is easy to teach, easy to play, easy to set up and a very fun, quick playing worker placement game. There are lots of points to be scored and lots of ways to score them.

Lewis and Clark is a beautiful looking game but I just did not enjoy it all that much.
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Garry Rice
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I enjoy L&C more as there is more variability in each game...although I enjoy and own both.
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Christopher Incao
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I enjoy both very much... I think they each scratch a different itch. I find them both to be very competive games as you have to keep track of what other players are doing.
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Jools Thomas
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What kind of itches do you think they both scratch Christopher? Also, which one is shorter? Ah, choices, choices!
 
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Garry Rice
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Jools wrote:
What kind of itches do you think they both scratch Christopher? Also, which one is shorter? Ah, choices, choices!


They definitely scratch different itches...RR is a pure worker placement game and can definitely be played in a much shorter time period with experienced players...I've finished a 4 player game of this in an hour already.

L&C is a small deckbuilder, resource collection, and race game that generally takes longer to play.

Both games, as Chris said, require you to keep an eye on what everyone else is doing which will likely influence your play, although in different ways. RR you keep an eye on what others are doing and often try to do something different whereas in L&C you are looking at what your neighbors are playing and trying to optimize your play to benefit from the cards they've played.
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Todd Kauk
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I looked at both, but neither of them look very interesting. I like interactive games, RR looks dry and I hate the idea of sliding things up your personal board and L&C looks overly complicated and frustrating.

I would recommend:

Lancaster
Macao
Village w/ Village Inn
 
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Geo
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Russian Railroads is a better game. Besides my copy of the new 2nd printing of Lewis had serious quality problems.
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Garry Rice
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Todd Kauk wrote:
I looked at both, but neither of them look very interesting. I like interactive games, RR looks dry and I hate the idea of sliding things up your personal board and L&C looks overly complicated and frustrating.

I would recommend:

Lancaster
Macao
Village w/ Village Inn


Both games are pretty interactive...you're vying for spots on the board in RR and trying to make the best use of the cards your neighbors have played in L&C...not to mention take advantage of the location of their scout if they are in front of you...but no, neither game will appeal to some

l&C is no more complicated than any of the games listed above...the turn options are limited and very straightforward...the hardest part is learning the iconography on the cards, but its all explained well in the manual. It's going to depend on what type of games you enjoy
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Hardy
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Both games are not heavy on interaction.
RRR is a little more complicated regarding rules, on the other side L&C has a lot of cards with individual functions which makes it hard to get an overview in the first game.

RRR is a very solid, very streamlined game. Working very well, but it's rather abstract, theme totally exchangeable, a pure VP-gathering contest.

L&C has more thematic feel to it, and is also much more innovative and interesting in the way it mixed different mechanics and new elements.

Or in a short summary: RRR is a very solid good game made of known and approved elements, which everbody likes, while L&C is an exceptional, outstanding and innovative game which will polarize gamers.
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Jason
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GeoMan wrote:
Russian Railroads is a better game. Besides my copy of the new 2nd printing of Lewis had serious quality problems.


Out of curiosity, could you elaborate on the quality issues, please? Was thinking of trying to pick the game up (as well as RR, actually).

Thanks.
 
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Ryan Keane
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I haven't tried Lewis and Clark yet, but it's on the top of my wish list. The 2nd ed apparently has problems with the fragile board and very thin, easily warped cards.

Russian Railroads is just ok for me. I don't find it very interactive at all - like most other worker placements, you want to be aware enough of what other players are doing to determine which spots are highest priority for them (and thus you need to take first to avoid being blocked), but otherwise you're focused on your board. Also, you want to plan for end game scoring cards that other players are less likely to take. Other players that really enjoy the game have told me they are concerned about limited replayability. The lack of variable setup (basically there just variation in the order of engineers that come up, which are bonus actions that players can purchase so that only they can use them), along with the lack of interaction, means it's more likely you'll figure out your optimal strategy and do the same thing every game.
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Christopher Incao
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garry_rice wrote:
Jools wrote:
What kind of itches do you think they both scratch Christopher? Also, which one is shorter? Ah, choices, choices!


They definitely scratch different itches...RR is a pure worker placement game and can definitely be played in a much shorter time period with experienced players...I've finished a 4 player game of this in an hour already.

L&C is a small deckbuilder, resource collection, and race game that generally takes longer to play.

Both games, as Chris said, require you to keep an eye on what everyone else is doing which will likely influence your play, although in different ways. RR you keep an eye on what others are doing and often try to do something different whereas in L&C you are looking at what your neighbors are playing and trying to optimize your play to benefit from the cards they've played.


Thanks Garry... You captured in words exactly what I was thinking.
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TJ H
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I would like to ask another question then.

Concordia or Lewis and Clark?

Both are medium-weight / relatively new / similar mechanics (deck building, hand management, etc.).

What is better and how they differ?
 
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Jools Thomas
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Thanks for the info folks. You've made me realise I'd prefer L&C over RR but that it's current version has significant problems. My Amazaon DE voucher only lasts two weeks though so I can't wait till a 3rd printing. I guess I'm back at the beginning of my search!
 
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Christopher Dearlove
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Ryan Keane wrote:
Russian Railroads is just ok for me. I don't find it very interactive at all - like most other worker placements, you want to be aware enough of what other players are doing to determine which spots are highest priority for them (and thus you need to take first to avoid being blocked), but otherwise you're focused on your board.


You'll do better if you do more than that.

Last game I played, winning play (not by me) used two workers to score three points. Sounds crazy, of course he could have done better. But it prevented me scoring about sixty points.
 
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Mike DiLisio
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Todd Kauk wrote:
I looked at both, but neither of them look very interesting. I like interactive games, RR looks dry and I hate the idea of sliding things up your personal board and L&C looks overly complicated and frustrating.

I would recommend:

Lancaster
Macao
Village w/ Village Inn


http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/171733/bgg-sins-things...

See #6.

Sorry. Had to do it.
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Ryan Keane
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Dearlove wrote:
Ryan Keane wrote:
Russian Railroads is just ok for me. I don't find it very interactive at all - like most other worker placements, you want to be aware enough of what other players are doing to determine which spots are highest priority for them (and thus you need to take first to avoid being blocked), but otherwise you're focused on your board.


You'll do better if you do more than that.

Last game I played, winning play (not by me) used two workers to score three points. Sounds crazy, of course he could have done better. But it prevented me scoring about sixty points.


Doesn't sound crazy to me. Determining your net gain (how much you will gain vs an opponent will gain) is a part of prioritizing spots in WP games. Perhaps RR has more opportunities for large swings in points (winning scores being in the 400 range, which is high compared to most other games) as opposed to the normal min/maxing of small point margins that often occurs on the last turn of WP games, but I wouldn't consider that a significant increase in player interaction for RR's case. For example, RR doesn't have anything similar to the Intrigue cards in Lords of Waterdeep, which add opportunities for you to directly help or harm other players separate from the standard WP competition over actions.

I standby my main point that if you're looking for an interactive WP game, RR is not an ideal choice.
 
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Ryan Keane
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xlist21 wrote:
I would like to ask another question then.

Concordia or Lewis and Clark?

Both are medium-weight / relatively new / similar mechanics (deck building, hand management, etc.).

What is better and how they differ?


No one's answered this, so I'll offer some info, although I have only played RR and Concordia, not L&C.

Concordia is quite good but not amazing - the most interesting part for me is the variable distribution of good tokens for each region and in each city. This changes the dynamics of which regions are higher priority to build in. It's not really deck building, more hand building, with the main mechanic being when do you decide to stop playing your remaining cards in your hand and instead take a turn to pick up your discards back into your hand. I do feel that even with the variable setup, the gameplay and strategies would get a bit same-y for me after a while, which is what has prevented me from purchasing it.

From what I've read about L&C, it seems more innovative, but don't know how it compares on depth or replayability.
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Christopher Dearlove
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Ryan Keane wrote:
Dearlove wrote:
Last game I played, winning play (not by me) used two workers to score three points. Sounds crazy, of course he could have done better. But it prevented me scoring about sixty points.


Doesn't sound crazy to me.


It might have done, had I stopped there.
 
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Christopher Dearlove
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Ryan Keane wrote:
I standby my main point that if you're looking for an interactive WP game, RR is not an ideal choice.


And I by mine that you are underestimating the interaction. But nothing unusual, I think too many people think the only form of interaction that counts is actively attacking someone.
 
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Christopher Dearlove
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Ryan Keane wrote:
xlist21 wrote:
I would like to ask another question then.

Concordia or Lewis and Clark?

Both are medium-weight / relatively new / similar mechanics (deck building, hand management, etc.).

What is better and how they differ?


No one's answered this, so I'll offer some info, although I have only played RR and Concordia, not L&C.

Concordia is quite good but not amazing - the most interesting part for me is the variable distribution of good tokens for each region and in each city. This changes the dynamics of which regions are higher priority to build in. It's not really deck building, more hand building, with the main mechanic being when do you decide to stop playing your remaining cards in your hand and instead take a turn to pick up your discards back into your hand. I do feel that even with the variable setup, the gameplay and strategies would get a bit same-y for me after a while, which is what has prevented me from purchasing it.

From what I've read about L&C, it seems more innovative, but don't know how it compares on depth or replayability.


I've played both, and I'd agree with your basic assessment that L&C is more innovative, and a better game. Concordia is as you say, not deck building in the Dominion style, but rather marrying deck building with the well known mechanism of a set of actions you play one by one, not able to reuse until either you've used them all (in some designs) or play the "get back cards" card (in others, including - of necessity for this marriage I think - Concordia).

But L&C isn't deck building in the Dominion sense either. In fact it also could be considered hand building (if we call that marriage so). In fact it almost comes under the play all cards variant, except that you can stop early - but take a penalty.

There appears to be a contradiction in those two paragraphs, so I'll try to resolve it. Concordia has no trashing (it's just inevitable to use Dominion terms) so needs not to play all cards, but L&C can be extremely heavy on it, so could have play all cards (you usually play all of them in my experience, but not always). Concordia couldn't have trashing and work - as the cards are how you collect for scoring (that and building stuff, it's a sort of product of the two).

But despite L&C being better in my opinion, I'm happy to have bought Concordia. Actually I bought the very first copy sold at Essen, which might mean the first copy anyone bought. (It came with a handshake from the designer.)


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Rodney Sheldon
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xlist21 wrote:
I would like to ask another question then.

Concordia or Lewis and Clark?

Both are medium-weight / relatively new / similar mechanics (deck building, hand management, etc.).

What is better and how they differ?


I have played both. I prefer Concordia to Lewis & Clark. I like the deck building aspect of both games, but Concordia for me has a little more strategy and more interesting decisions to be made. I enjoy Mac Gerdts games. They have more freedom to them to try different strategies.

Lewis & Clark is an innovative game. It is part deck builder and part worker placement. The interesting thing about L&C is that it is a race game...not a victory point game. The goal is to win the race to the west...not score the most victory points.

And just to add...I have also played Russian Railroads... it is a more standard worker placement game. I enjoy it...but it finishes third in this group of games.

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