Recommend
4 
 Thumb up
 Hide
45 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Eldritch Horror» Forums » General

Subject: Anyone not a fan of AH but enjoy EH? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Jake
United States
West Hollywood
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
So after Settlers and several other euros my first ameritrash game was Arkham. I really enjoyed the theme and story it told. Damn it was hard! But as I moved on down the road of gaming I really started to dislike the foot print, randomness, running several characters (I play mostly 2/3 player), watering down from excessive expansions and the rules always seemed convoluted when they didnt need to be. Has Eldritch really taken care of those issues? I just want a streamlined AH with the same difficulty and great story. I have looked through all the posts and videos but still cant get a vibe for this game. Anyone have a similar experience with AH and move on only to really enjoy EH?

(I sold AH long ago and have not looked back)

-Jake
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Thomas
United States
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
"Music That Glows In The Dark"
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hate Arkham Love Eldritch, it is everything I wanted AH to be and more.
10 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chick Lewis
United States
Claremont
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I never was crazy about AH, and just LOVE Eldritch Horror.

It does, at least for me, fix those problems. Tells a superior, engaging story, and just KICKs your BOOTIE half the time.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mariano Rico
Spain
Madrid
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
jakece wrote:
I have looked through all the posts and videos but still cant get a vibe for this game.


Really? Wow.

Anyway, I have a weird love/hate relation with AH. If you just analyze the game mechanics ia actually such a simple, dull and repetitive stuff...and still there was a time when I could not stop playing it. That game delivers something truly special and hard to define. I kind of understand both haters and lovers of it.

In any case EH has taken care of most of the mistakes and as a whole, is a more polished game and easier to get to the table with pretty much any number of players. And solo is a blast.

But there are quite a few reviews giving you a lot of details explaining why. Actually, most of those cant help to compare them all the time.

4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Denis
Germany
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I like the general gist of AH, but everytime I played it, I found it way too long for what it was.
I like EH and would love it if it was more difficult.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jake
United States
West Hollywood
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Acererak wrote:
jakece wrote:
I have looked through all the posts and videos but still cant get a vibe for this game.


Really? Wow.

Anyway, I have a weird love/hate relation with AH. If you just analyze the game mechanics ia actually such a simple, dull and repetitive stuff...and still there was a time when I could not stop playing it. That game delivers something truly special and hard to define. I kind of understand both haters and lovers of it.

In any case EH has taken care of most of the mistakes and as a whole, is a more polished game and easier to get to the table with pretty much any number of players. And solo is a blast.

But there are quite a few reviews giving you a lot of details explaining why. Actually, most of those cant help to compare them all the time.



I guess I should say a vibe from someone who played AH but didnt take a liking to it. Most opinions seem to be people who never played AH or are fans of it.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bryce K. Nielsen
United States
Elk Ridge
Utah
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I enjoy them both. I think AH is the superior game primarily because of its feel. Being localized to a town, it tells a better story, while EH has a more sporadic story to it with the investigators world hopping. IMHO, EH hasn't taken care of any issues, just shifted things around. It's still about as random as AH, has a similar level of difficulty, and dice can turn on you at any moment. It's a fun game, and once it gets "watered down with expansions" you'll probably have a similar gripe with EH (right now, it's the opposite gripe, that there's not enough cards for variety), but in general, they're very similar games. EH has just as many cards to plow through, just as many fiddly decisions to make, and the text is even harder to read.

Honestly, seeings how you sold AH and were happy to do so, I would advice you to play EH before buying it. Find a friend or an FLGS to do a demo game. Then that will help you know if you like it or not.

-shnar
10 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
calvin chow
United States
seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I loved the idea of AH, but couldn't get through a game... EH is much more up my alley. Especially since I mostly play solo or with my wife--it's just a better fit for me/us...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jake
United States
West Hollywood
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks everyone and bgg! Response time and input on this sight never ceases to amaze!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jake
United States
West Hollywood
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
shnar wrote:
I enjoy them both. I think AH is the superior game primarily because of its feel. Being localized to a town, it tells a better story, while EH has a more sporadic story to it with the investigators world hopping. IMHO, EH hasn't taken care of any issues, just shifted things around. It's still about as random as AH, has a similar level of difficulty, and dice can turn on you at any moment. It's a fun game, and once it gets "watered down with expansions" you'll probably have a similar gripe with EH (right now, it's the opposite gripe, that there's not enough cards for variety), but in general, they're very similar games. EH has just as many cards to plow through, just as many fiddly decisions to make, and the text is even harder to read.

Honestly, seeings how you sold AH and were happy to do so, I would advice you to play EH before buying it. Find a friend or an FLGS to do a demo game. Then that will help you know if you like it or not.

-shnar


Yeah I was worried also that being the world, as opposed to a town, EH would have a much more thin story which would jump all over the place having no sense of a linear storyline.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bryce K. Nielsen
United States
Elk Ridge
Utah
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
So people will argue there is a cohesive story, or at least as much as AH's, but I haven't seen it yet. Not to say I don't like EH, I do, I just think AH has a better feel when it comes to atmosphere and mood in the game.

It's due to these varying opinions that I highly recommend you try before you buy.

-shnar
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mariano Rico
Spain
Madrid
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
jakece wrote:
shnar wrote:
I enjoy them both. I think AH is the superior game primarily because of its feel. Being localized to a town, it tells a better story, while EH has a more sporadic story to it with the investigators world hopping. IMHO, EH hasn't taken care of any issues, just shifted things around. It's still about as random as AH, has a similar level of difficulty, and dice can turn on you at any moment. It's a fun game, and once it gets "watered down with expansions" you'll probably have a similar gripe with EH (right now, it's the opposite gripe, that there's not enough cards for variety), but in general, they're very similar games. EH has just as many cards to plow through, just as many fiddly decisions to make, and the text is even harder to read.

Honestly, seeings how you sold AH and were happy to do so, I would advice you to play EH before buying it. Find a friend or an FLGS to do a demo game. Then that will help you know if you like it or not.

-shnar


Yeah I was worried also that being the world, as opposed to a town, EH would have a much more thin story which would jump all over the place having no sense of a linear storyline.


That is true with Encounters. One turn you are visiting the Vatican and the next you are in an old shop in Shanghai. It feels disconnected.

On the other hand, the story behind the clue gathering makes much more sense than in AH, you get the feel of researching something related to the GOO you are fighting in EH. And the victory objectives in form of different Mysteries to solve also delivers a much better narrative than just closing gates like there is no tomorrow.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
A S
United States
Providence
Rhode Island
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
I very much agree with Shnar on this one. They are not so fundamentally different that you may be annoyed by the same things in both games.

I have only played Eldritch Horror once and really the only way I found it less "fiddly" is that the monsters stay put. This eases the game mechanic a bit, but I like the tension/needed strategy that moving monsters brings in Arkham.

I do think Arkham tells the better story and overall feels more cohesive. Though I do like the global pulp adventure vibe of Eldritch. Also, even though it may be less cohesive, you can end up with some pretty entertaining scenarios.

In the game I played, I finished by sending the sailor (Silas) to Siberia to investigate a meteor (or some such disturbance) in the company of his personal assistant and a Vatican missionary. Also, this sailor happened to be blessed. On one hand, that really doesn't make much sense (a sailor with a personal assistant? friend from the vatican?). On the other, its absurdity makes it pretty entertaining.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Antonio Nessuno
Italy
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
i think Eh is more difficult of AH... what do you think? AH have a predetermined winning strategy
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
chris thatcher
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
AH have a predetermined winning strategy


I havent played just the base game in a long time as i own all the expansions, but, as to having a predetermined winning strategy..well, you can try...but its never that simple.

Quote:
In the game I played, I finished by sending the sailor (Silas) to Siberia to investigate a meteor (or some such disturbance) in the company of his personal assistant and a Vatican missionary. Also, this sailor happened to be blessed. On one hand, that really doesn't make much sense (a sailor with a personal assistant? friend from the vatican?). On the other, its absurdity makes it pretty entertaining.


Heh, Arkham can be as funny tho. Having a Nun on a motorbike wielding a shotgun!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Si Barnes
United Kingdom
Halifax
West Yorkshire
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I really wanted to like AH but found that there were just too many things to get my head around and with the length of game it never got to the table. I tried playing it with my wife and she took an instant dislike to it.

I like the globe-trotting element to EH and I love the omen track/reckoning mechanic. IMHO FFG have simplified the rules just enough to make the game more fluid and accessible and I haven't regretted selling AH. Plus, my wife (who is not a massive fan of more rules-y games) actually requests Eldritch!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ian Allen
United States
Madison
Alabama
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I played AH about 8 times throughout the last 3 or 4 years. I had several sessions - usually 6 player - where I was bored to tears and felt like I didn't get anything accomplished the whole game.

I owned AH from the beginning and faithfully bought every expansion as it came out, but never opened a single one. I bought the plastic gates and gate tokens, 2 full sets of each type. I bought the pre-painted investigator full set and all 4 of the pre-painted monster sets.

I never played the game once at my own house for game night. The game was so fiddly and complicated with so many pieces to keep track of, as I saw from playing it at my friends house every now and then, that the true horror of Arkham to me, was being the one to set it up and run it.

I am a huge Lovecraft fan and have the complete works on my bookshelf and pull it down and read through it every now and then. I have a foot tall Cthulhu figure staring at me from my desktop as I type this.

I almost felt like there was something wrong with me. Why couldn't I like Arkham Horror. The theme was there, the components were great, tons of other people seemed to think it was the best thing since sliced bread. I just couldn't muster any enthusiasm for it.

Then EH came along. While I like Mansions of Madness, I didn't like Elder Sign - or Cthulhu Yahtzee as I call it, so I was wary of this new game. I have come to distrust Cthulhu related products to the point now where I ... and I shudder to say this ... have started to try games before buying them. I know ...

However, after I researched EH I decided to go ahead an buy it and give it a try anyway, but knowing that if it was more of the AH system, then I was not going to follow the expansion pathway to hell - but trade it off instead.

However - to my great surprise - this turned out to be the game that I always wished AH could be.

1. There is one big map. No need to have an add-on map driving up cost and complexity in every future expansion. You are saving the world by traveling to exotic cities instead of just going to the bank and the sanitarium and the hospital and whatever. I like going to Shanghai and Sydney and Rome - the globe hopping theme appeals to me.

2. Monsters - there are usually just one of each monster other than cultists and say 2 of Goat Spawn and 2 of Ghouls. With the more spread out map and the mostly single creature style of the monsters, I can now use my pre-painted monsters on the map. Also I don't have to follow a cryptic symbol system of moving monsters around this way and that way and filling up the outskirts and whatever.
When a gate opens in EH a monster comes out and for the most part just stays at that gate. A few of the monsters thematically go straight to a certain location when they come out, like the Serpent Man going to the Amazon or the Elder Thing going to Antarctica or the Gnop-Keh (white ape creature) going to the Himilayas, the Mummy going to Egypt, etc.

3. Movement - movement is easy. You move 1 and then you move an additional 1 or 2 if you have a railway/ship ticket. Monsters in EH no longer clot up the map and block where you want to go - since you are on a global scale.

4. Stats - I always hated the AH gamey system of boosting one stat by dropping another. Why do I have to drop my Lore to 1 in order to raise my movement to 4 or etc. etc. etc. So fiddly and annoying. Whatever stat you raise, the one you lowered invariably turns out to be the one you need.
With EH you have set stats on the cards and if you go do certain encounters, you can raise them (level up) permanently. If I want to play a high influence politician that is crap at fighting, I choose Charlie Kane. If I want an Asian female martial artist that improves her stats quickly and can karate chop a Wraith like nobody's business, I choose Lily Chan or whatever.
Its up to you if you want to improve the character's fixed stats or not.

5. Dice rolling - with AH you can end up having 0 dice to roll on a test. With EH, no matter what happens you always roll at least 1 die and have a chance.

6. Buying equipment/items/weapons/allies - the process is so streamlined. You don't run out of cash like you do in AH or have to travel past blocking monsters to get to a shop. Instead you only have to be in any city, then for one action you can roll your influence number and purchase something from the Reserve stack of 4 items based on your roll. AND - if you fail your roll completely, you can take out a quick Debt in order to gain 2 successes and still usually get something.

7. Defeated characters - when a character is defeated, (not when devoured) in EH, you leave all the items there and someone can travel to that city and encounter them. They are either too wounded to continue, or are insane, depending on which of those stats defeated them. You then encounter them and read the thematic element on the back of the character card and roll a skill check and so forth. Very cool element.

8. Theme - mystery, special, and clue cards are thematically tied into each specific GOO. Arkham, with its 8 expansions or whatever, currently wins on sheer amount of content, but EH will catch up on that over time. As far as feeling "in the game", if I play a 5 hour session of AH and do nothing but buy a shotgun and lose 2 fights all game long, I don't really get much of the AH theme anyway.
In EH I always feel like my turns matter and I am doing something, and that is a major plus for me.

9. Closing gates - while there is a little more theme to closing gates in AH, its also more complicated and frequently more annoying. In AH you have to go in and then have 2 other world encounters and then pop back out and try to close the gate. You can get Lost in Time and space and basically lose turns (one of my least favorite of all game mechanics). The last game I played I got Lost in T and S twice and the guy sitting beside me got Lost in T and S 3 times in the course of the game session. bleh...
In EH - you travel to the Gate location during the action phase, and then during the encounter phase you draw a gate card, read the flavor text, make a roll, and either close the gate or suffer the failure effect. Very precise and to the point.

Every mechanism that I found annoying or hated about AH is streamlined and fixed/improved in EH and there is plenty of theme to go around.

The only drawback that my group is currently experiencing is that some of the decks are a little thin and you start seeing the same card multiple times in a game with the re-shuffling. I have full confidence that the upcoming expansions will fatten out those decks a bit.

Oh yes - I sold off all my AH stuff that had been gathering dust and haven't thought about it twice since.
16 
 Thumb up
0.07
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pauli Vinni
Finland
Espoo
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Shooock wrote:
i think Eh is more difficult of AH... what do you think? AH have a predetermined winning strategy


Base AH and base EH are about the same difficulty. So both are easy to win (too easy IMHO). But AH with almost any expansion becomes much, much harder!
I hope that EH expansions will do the same to EH.

All in all EH may be more suitable for casual play, but basic AH may be easier to win for casual players, because you just have to shut down all the gates and you will be fine! In EH there is more to do and you need to make more decision, so It may be harder to know what to do. But when you know, what to do to win the game, those games are quite the same (basic games without expansions...) for the difficulty aspect.
But the EH is much better streamlined, so it will be much easier to learn the rules and remember them... The AH really needs an effort to remember all the stuff that is going on... So EH as a whole is better made game. I really hope that we will see AH2 with EH rules!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ken Marley
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
My wife and I like both games, but...

It takes us about 3 hours minimum to play AH.

It takes us about 100 minutes maximum to play EH.

With work and family taking much of our time, we have played AH about 4 times in the past 4 years. We have played EH about 15 times in the past 3 months.

If I was single and could afford to play games all weakened like I did in my 20s, AH might be the better game, but for us it is no contest EH is the better game.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kain
Canada
Calgary
Alberta
flag msg tools
Avatar
youperguy wrote:
My wife and I like both games, but...

It takes us about 3 hours minimum to play AH.

It takes us about 100 minutes maximum to play EH.

With work and family taking much of our time, we have played AH about 4 times in the past 4 years. We have played EH about 15 times in the past 3 months.

If I was single and could afford to play games all weakened like I did in my 20s, AH might be the better game, but for us it is no contest EH is the better game.

This is about right, gameplay time plays a huge factor on ability to enjoy it. Although I think 3 hours for AH is a little generous, with few expansions tossed in, it's like 6 hours. While EH never exceeded 2.5 hours, under 2 hours if you have 2-4 players.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bryce K. Nielsen
United States
Elk Ridge
Utah
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Dark63 wrote:
youperguy wrote:
My wife and I like both games, but...

It takes us about 3 hours minimum to play AH.

It takes us about 100 minutes maximum to play EH.

With work and family taking much of our time, we have played AH about 4 times in the past 4 years. We have played EH about 15 times in the past 3 months.

If I was single and could afford to play games all weakened like I did in my 20s, AH might be the better game, but for us it is no contest EH is the better game.

This is about right, gameplay time plays a huge factor on ability to enjoy it. Although I think 3 hours for AH is a little generous, with few expansions tossed in, it's like 6 hours. While EH never exceeded 2.5 hours, under 2 hours if you have 2-4 players.

For now. We're not sure how future expansions may morph that (FFG having that problem with a lot of their games, expansion bloat)...

-shnar
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Awake Land
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
IMHO EH is the tighter and cleaner game, and I learned EH first. However...

AH, is a *beautiful* mess, there is something really appealing about the chaos of it, where when you can pull off a spell combo that actually does something cool, it feels amazing. There is just so much there you'll never see, the game remains a mystery.

Even so, EH is the game we're hoping for more more content and it seems it will expand better. Can't wait to get more investigators and AO.

Still w/o AH, there would be no EH, and it is still a good game, but admittedly, it took about 4-6 games to really make sense of the game to make it fun.

Basically, just get into the role(s) of the characters in AH and have fun, don't worry about the outcome. Try to win, but don't care too much.

Yes, in EH, it feels like Pandemic, "we HAVE to win" and that gives the game more excitement.

In Arkham we like to play like "I'm going to do this ridiculous/funny/wild thing" - OMG it actually worked! High five! To us, that is the spirit of AH.

5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Øivind Karlsrud
Norway
Bjørkelangen
Unspecified
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar: My two sons
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
jakece wrote:
So after Settlers and several other euros my first ameritrash game was Arkham. I really enjoyed the theme and story it told. Damn it was hard! But as I moved on down the road of gaming I really started to dislike the foot print, randomness, running several characters (I play mostly 2/3 player), watering down from excessive expansions and the rules always seemed convoluted when they didnt need to be. Has Eldritch really taken care of those issues? I just want a streamlined AH with the same difficulty and great story. I have looked through all the posts and videos but still cant get a vibe for this game. Anyone have a similar experience with AH and move on only to really enjoy EH?

(I sold AH long ago and have not looked back)

-Jake


My gaming friends all like Eldritch even though we usually play competitive strategy games. Some favorites we've played recently are Here I Stand, Imperial 2030, A Game of Thrones, Axis & Allies (Europe + Pacific combined). We even used to play World in Flames, so I guess we're somewhat hardcore wargamers. But the important thing is that we all like theme and we all like strategy, so when we like Eldritch that must mean we all feel there's both theme and strategy there. The only one who has played Arkham besides me agrees Eldritch is far superior as a game, and I think the rest would agree, too.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jan Probst
Germany
Kiel
Schleswig Holstein
flag msg tools
Does never being involved with AH count?
Couldn't really get into the concept. With all due respect for Ms Summers and the idea of some sort of hellmouth as a single place nexus of all the bad stuff happening, the city scale really turned me off even checking it out.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Øivind Karlsrud
Norway
Bjørkelangen
Unspecified
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar: My two sons
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
colmmccarthy wrote:
The play times for both base games seemed very comparable to me. Throw in your EH expansions and its playtime will grow and grow.


I wouldn't use shorter playing time as a selling point, but at least you have a maximum number of rounds. And I don't think EH will be changed that much by expansions. There is so much they can do with the game mechanisms as they stand, I think the expansions will just give us more variety. Maybe we'll see some new tokens with their own encounter decks, but mostly I expect more cards, AOs and investigators.

Just look at what they've done with Game of Thrones 2nd edition. After including the best parts of the expansions from 1st edition they don't need to 'fix' the game with big expansions, so they just release small expansions (basically, just new house cards).
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.