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Adventure Time Card Wars: Finn vs. Jake» Forums » General

Subject: Shot themselves in the foot rss

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Weston Ferguson
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Look I really like this game, it's fun and simple, easy to teach, but I don't see how this game is ever going to get treated with any respect for organized play especially with some of the unclear rulings on how some card effects work. Can anyone clarify which cards specifically have atk or def boosts that only last till the end of the turn? Because I feel that was pretty vague. That's a very small portion of what it has going against it with the uphill battle of this booster pack model their going for.

When you have to compete with Yugioh, Magic and whatever else is out there in a booster style format I think most companies fight an uphill battle unless maybe they have a really hot IP. Now Adventure Time is a very popular IP, but Card Wars is only referenced in one episode out of 5 seasons. Also the card game doesn't even feature characters from the show, so I feel like they've lost the young children appeal that other booster pack card games have. Not everyone is going to know what the card game is and I feel like $4 dollars a pack, like many have said is just far enough above an impulse purchase that I doubt many grocery stores or moms are even going to bother. So that means the main place to get the game is going to be FLGS, which means it's going to compete directly with Magic and Yugioh. Pretty sure the packs for those games sell for below 4 dollars at most of the stores near my house.

So Cryptozotic in my opinion by making the game expandable by booster packs and expensive booster packs at that, you have shot yourselves in the foot with a game that could have very easily competed with other card games in the market. Not only have you disappointed at least half, if not all of the people who have bought the game initially, I don't understand how in the world you think this game is going to survive with a booster pack model in a world where we have very excellent living card games like Netrunner and Summoner Wars.

I might be a small minority with these opinions and I guess we'll see what sales are like once the boosters hit. But I ain't spending a penny on a booster pack. The reason I got into board games and living card games is because I was done with the CCG model of things and craved something more.
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Mikey Deets
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It has already been answered in another thread about duration of triggered or payment effects. Uni-Knight and Schoolhouse effects only last until end of turn. The new printing will fix that. Everything is til end of turn, except for "gains +1 DEF." +DEF effects are listed in the rulebook. If a Creature that gets +1 DEF has damage, it heals 1. If it's not damaged, it permanently gains 1 DEF.


Re: Boosters--- They have said multiple times, here and on their website, that this Booster release is just to get cards into players hands as fast as possible. Decks take longer to produce. This booster release could be the only one they ever do, so the game has NOT turned into a "booster model." Collector's Packs will still be the primary way we get new content.

It's totally fine if you don't buy boosters. Just play with decks. They have already announced the next Collector's Pack, with NiceLands vs some other new deck (but not a new land type). I don't see why people are mad about boosters. It's fine to just play with decks.
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Weston Ferguson
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And I'm sure all of the cards in the boosters are going to be represented in collecters packs.......
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John Edmond
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I have yet to see anything saying that

And even then- so I get one alot of cards and then still have to buy boosters to build further? Or buy four character decks.

Having booster packs but somehow trying to say they wont have a "Booster model" is at the best amusing.
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Brian B.
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MikeyD wrote:
It has already been answered in another thread about duration of triggered or payment effects. Uni-Knight and Schoolhouse effects only last until end of turn. The new printing will fix that. Everything is til end of turn, except for "gains +1 DEF." +DEF effects are listed in the rulebook. If a Creature that gets +1 DEF has damage, it heals 1. If it's not damaged, it permanently gains 1 DEF.


Re: Boosters--- They have said multiple times, here and on their website, that this Booster release is just to get cards into players hands as fast as possible. Decks take longer to produce. This booster release could be the only one they ever do, so the game has NOT turned into a "booster model." Collector's Packs will still be the primary way we get new content.

It's totally fine if you don't buy boosters. Just play with decks. They have already announced the next Collector's Pack, with NiceLands vs some other new deck (but not a new land type). I don't see why people are mad about boosters. It's fine to just play with decks.


MikeyD, is this a real account? Do you work for Cryptozoic? Are you personal friends with Matt Hyra? Are you a Matt Hyra sock puppet account?

You own/have rated 5 games, 3 of them 10s. The 10s are all games designed by Matt Hyra.

The only thumb you have ever given is to a Matt Hyra post.

Matt Hyra himself has thumbed your posts.

You have only posted in threads belonging to games designed by Matt Hyra, strongly defending them.

I will ask again, is this a sock puppet account of Matt Hyra?
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Mikey Deets
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brianmbe wrote:
MikeyD, is this a real account? Do you work for Cryptozoic? Are you personal friends with Matt Hyra? Are you a Matt Hyra sock puppet account?


WOW, now I know what it's like having a stalker. surprise

Matt is a gaming acquaintance that I play with sometimes at local conventions. He brings pre-production copies of some games for people to try out, and I like them. Helps when the designer teaches you.

So, yeah, I guess I'm a fan/puppet. He's the only designer I know personally.

I don't normally rate games on here, but when I see some people trash a game that I like, I feel like making a counterpoint. Would you feel better if I rated some other games?
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Brian B.
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MikeyD wrote:
brianmbe wrote:
MikeyD, is this a real account? Do you work for Cryptozoic? Are you personal friends with Matt Hyra? Are you a Matt Hyra sock puppet account?


WOW, now I know what it's like having a stalker.


That took less than three minutes of my time.

I'm sometimes suspicious of accounts with no avatars or microbadges, etc. that White Knight certain games. It took about three clicks to see that you rate Matt Hyra games 10s, you thumb Matt Hyra posts, you've only ever posted in Matt Hyra-designed game threads, you have a long rant in the comments of a Matt Hyra-designed game, defending it, and you seem to to be somewhat defensive about complaints regarding the Cryptozoic Adventure Time switcheroo, while Matt Hyra himself has stayed out of the majority (all?) of the threads criticizing Cryptozoic on this matter.

That strongly points towards a sock puppet account, and it would be very sad if that were the case. If you're not Matt Hyra or a Cryptozoic employee (and I'll believe you're not), you behave just as a sock puppet account would.

Your passion for a particular designer (to the exclusion of any others) is very uncommon, that's all.
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William Giant
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brianmbe wrote:
Your passion for a particular designer (to the exclusion of any others) is very uncommon, that's all.


I do have a hard time imagining coming on the boards just to post praise for an acquaintance's games. There are so many wonderful things on BGG it does sound incredibly unlikely.

It would be like going into a Jelly Belly store over and over just for the Root Beer flavor.
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Brian B.
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Here is an interesting twist. My original post in this thread was thumbed by none other than Matt Hyra himself last night. Today, that thumb is no longer there.

Why did Matt Hyra thumb my post accusing MikeyD of being his fake account? And why did Matt Hyra then take back his thumb? Was that some sort of *wink wink* joke?

Is the lead designer/developer of Cryptozoic using MikeyD as a shill account to defend/rate his games? If so, are there other Cryptozoic/Matt Hyra shills on BGG?
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Daniel Barrett
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brianmbe wrote:
Here is an interesting twist. My original post in this thread was thumbed by none other than Matt Hyra himself last night. Today, that thumb is no longer there.

Why did Matt Hyra thumb my post accusing MikeyD of being his fake account? And why did Matt Hyra then take back his thumb? Was that some sort of *wink wink* joke?

Is the lead designer/developer of Cryptozoic using MikeyD as a shill account to defend/rate his games? If so, are there other Cryptozoic/Matt Hyra shills on BGG?


There are probably more shill accounts on BGG than you realize from many different publishers.
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Brian B.
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Helljin wrote:
brianmbe wrote:
Here is an interesting twist. My original post in this thread was thumbed by none other than Matt Hyra himself last night. Today, that thumb is no longer there.

Why did Matt Hyra thumb my post accusing MikeyD of being his fake account? And why did Matt Hyra then take back his thumb? Was that some sort of *wink wink* joke?

Is the lead designer/developer of Cryptozoic using MikeyD as a shill account to defend/rate his games? If so, are there other Cryptozoic/Matt Hyra shills on BGG?


There are probably more shill accounts on BGG than you realize from many different publishers.


That might be true. I'm aware enough of their existence to be suspicious of accounts like MikeyD's and I know they're around for dummy ratings, etc. This one just seems/seemed so obvious. I think the whole idea is kind of shameful, really.

And if it's ever confirmed that a particular designer/publisher/etc. has been using fake accounts to boost ratings, drum up support, or combat criticism, then I think they should be called out and shamed.*

In my humble opinion, shill accounts are lame. And I think that those that actively post are a degree worse than those that merely rate games.

*I'm speaking generally here, not just about this specific thread, which may or may not have revealed a sock puppet account.
 
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Matt Hyra
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brianmbe wrote:
Why did Matt Hyra thumb my post accusing MikeyD of being his fake account? And why did Matt Hyra then take back his thumb?


I thought your post was hilarious, so I thumbed it. Then I realized that Mike wasn't too pleased with the stalker behavior, so I un-thumbed it. He wasn't even aware of the Contributions tracking, etc. He thought someone had spent hours combing the forums. Mike is retired and only played Star Fleet Battles and Titan before I showed him a few of my games at an LA convention. I encouraged him to join BGG to find some new games. I didn't realize he was just going to trumpet my stuff. And because he's such a surly old coot, he defends my stuff pretty strongly.

Same thing happened with a non-gamer meet-up group I recently joined. I brought a couple of my games to a meet-up where I only knew one person there. The following week these near-strangers show up with stacks of all of the games I have made, including ones I didn't even show them. I won't make the mistake of telling them to come to BGG. They might only rate my games, as they don't own any others!

Like you say, Mike's account would be a pretty bad/obvious shill. I've been designing games for 10 years and have worked in the industry since 1996. Mike joined BGG 5 months ago. If shill accounts were so lucrative, I would have started one (or a dozen) 10 years ago!

The Cryptozoic bosses are unconcerned with BGG ratings, and so am I. We make licensed games for a casual audience, though there is crossover. We know that BGGers aren't going to rate our games highly, and we're OK with that. It means we probably hit the right level of analysis paralysis ( none ).

I don't post in complaint threads that aren't asking any questions, as it isn't worth my time. I also don't post in strategy threads, as that should be left to the players. I answer rule questions and the like and stay away from flame wars. So don't take my lack of participation in a thread to have some hidden meaning. And I won't be back to this thread, though it was interesting/enlightening. I only bothered to make this post to explain "The mystery of the disappearing thumb."

Thanks,
Matt Hyra
Cryptozoic R&D
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Brian B.
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Matt Hyra wrote:
brianmbe wrote:
Why did Matt Hyra thumb my post accusing MikeyD of being his fake account? And why did Matt Hyra then take back his thumb?


I thought your post was hilarious, so I thumbed it.


Thank you.

Matt Hyra wrote:
I won't make the mistake of telling them to come to BGG. They might only rate my games, as they don't own any others!


Oh, you should encourage them to come to BGG, but not just to champion your own titles, but to also discover everything else that the hobby has to offer.

Matt Hyra wrote:
If shill accounts were so lucrative, I would have started one (or a dozen) 10 years ago!


And if you did, it might be harder to tell if it was a shill.

For your detailed response, I'm thumbing your post... and it will remain thumbed.
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William Giant
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Well, looks like this (non)-mystery is solved gang.

In the interest of introducing MikeD to more than just Root Beer, which I like just fine, here are some similar games in weight and feel:

Smash Up

Killer Bunnies

King of Tokyo

Kind of a narrow window, Cryptozoic does nail it pretty well though. Wish their themes tied in a little stronger, but I appreciate the fact DC is much more likely to come off the shelf than Marvel because it's just easier to teach and get into a game. Anyone else have ideas?
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Matt Mansell
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Regardless of whether or not I agree with the OP, I came here to say one thing.

I like this game. I don't care one way or the other what the sales model becomes (boosters or otherwise), the game is fun to play. It really captures the feel and spirit of the show.

For me, this is a casual game. I am perfectly fine just having the two Collectors Boxes and playing a quick game here or there with my friends. No deckbuilding required. Pick a deck (Jake, Finn, LR, or BMO)and I'll pick one of the others. Play.
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Joel R
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Senas006 wrote:
Regardless of whether or not I agree with the OP, I came here to say one thing.

I like this game. I don't care one way or the other what the sales model becomes (boosters or otherwise), the game is fun to play. It really captures the feel and spirit of the show.

For me, this is a casual game. I am perfectly fine just having the two Collectors Boxes and playing a quick game here or there with my friends. No deckbuilding required. Pick a deck (Jake, Finn, LR, or BMO)and I'll pick one of the others. Play.


I second this sentiment. Card Wars is best taken as a fun casual game built specifically for fans of the show.

While people aren't happy with inclusion of CCG boosters, all it does is allow another level of play for those that want to take that step. If anything, the revenue from the boosters might make further expansions beyond Nicelands possible.

Like the show? Buy one of the Collectors Boxes.
Like the Collectors Box? Buy the other.
Like the game even more? Buy some boosters.
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Bert McCloud
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Matt Hyra wrote:
The Cryptozoic bosses are unconcerned with BGG ratings, and so am I. We make licensed games for a casual audience, though there is crossover. We know that BGGers aren't going to rate our games highly, and we're OK with that. It means we probably hit the right level of analysis paralysis ( none ).


Ignoring BGG is a bad idea. Everyone on here just wants to play some great games and listening to the community can be hugely beneficial for your games. Not all ideas are going to be good and you have to take everything with a pinch of salt. But in general we are helpful people that just want to play some great games.

Please don't assume that we all just play games that cause analysis paralysis. We are a varied community with a vast array of likes and dislikes. We may not all be kind and we may not all give you polite feedback. But there are a lot of helpful people here and the one thing we all have in common is that we love games, that's not something to ignore.
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Uncle Bob
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BertMcCloud wrote:
Matt Hyra wrote:
The Cryptozoic bosses are unconcerned with BGG ratings, and so am I. We make licensed games for a casual audience, though there is crossover. We know that BGGers aren't going to rate our games highly, and we're OK with that. It means we probably hit the right level of analysis paralysis ( none ).


Ignoring BGG is a bad idea. Everyone on here just wants to play some great games and listening to the community can be hugely beneficial for your games. Not all ideas are going to be good and you have to take everything with a pinch of salt. But in general we are helpful people that just want to play some great games.

Please don't assume that we all just play games that cause analysis paralysis. We are a varied community with a vast array of likes and dislikes. We may not all be kind and we may not all give you polite feedback. But there are a lot of helpful people here and the one thing we all have in common is that we love games, that's not something to ignore.


You know, I have to agree with this. Not all BGG members are crazy game fanatics. My favorite game is the casual-loved, BGG-hated Monopoly. I buy a new board/card game about once every six months or so - but, when I'm thinking about one (or if I happen to buy it on a whim), I always check BGG to see what folks are saying about it (and to discuss different rules and such).

When Card Wars showed up on my Facebook (linked by friend), I immediately came to BGG and watched one of the video reviews. As much as I love Adventure Time (which is a *lot*), if the site had trashed the game, I wouldn't have spent the $40+ on it... and I sure wouldn't have driven over five hours on release date to get it.

Face it, you're marking a niche game - anything that isn't sold in a big-box retailer is a niche game, since it means the majority of folks have to go out of their way to find it. No need to ignore or alienate a couple thousand folks who like to spend money on games.
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brendan b
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Lol...casual gamers hate AP, but they love keeping track of turbulent attack and defense values in their heads.

"ok...so I moved that guy...which means this guy gets +2 attack this turn...oh..wait..and that guy is flooped so this guy gets +3 attack...oh wait...the guy I moved used to have +3 defense because of that building...so did I just kill him by moving him?"
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Ryan C

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brendanb wrote:
Lol...casual gamers hate AP, but they love keeping track of turbulent attack and defense values in their heads.

"ok...so I moved that guy...which means this guy get's +2 attack this turn...oh..wait..and that guy is flooped so this guy gets +3 attack...oh wait...the guy I moved used to have +3 defense because of that building...so did I just kill him by moving him?"

Yes.
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Aaron Shanowitz
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Matt Hyra wrote:
We know that BGGers aren't going to rate our games highly, and we're OK with that. It means we probably hit the right level of analysis paralysis ( none ).

We only give high ratings to the most complicated of the complicated. In the top 100 alone are brain-melting games like Dixit, Love Letter, King of Tokyo, Ticket to Ride, and Crokinole.

At least you admit that you're only trying to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

BertMcCloud wrote:
Ignoring BGG is a bad idea. Everyone on here just wants to play some great games and listening to the community can be hugely beneficial for your games.

I agree, but I think you misunderstood Matt's comment. When he says he's unconcerned with BGG ratings, he means he's only concerned with sales. As long as people keep buying his generic, re-themed games, they'll keep cranking them out. These Adventure Time booster packs are a great example. The fans don't want it, and there's absolutely no reason for it in a world where the LCG model has proven to be much better for consumers, but it's a popular product so they're going to latch on to their fans like vampire bats.
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William Giant
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What if all the cards available on packs are eventually available in decks? Just without the foils.
 
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Uncle Bob
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Then those who *did* support the boosters will risk being annoyed that the $90 they spent buying a box was waay too much.

If they're going to do that, they need to announce it BEFORE the boosters are released so that their consumers can make informed decisions.
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Joel R
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For those on the fence about the booster singles or the box, a few online game stores are selling the boosters for $3ish and the full box for $60ish.

I doubt i'll buy a full box, but I might pick up a few boosters for that price, just to supplement and spice up the collector's pack decks.
 
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buffdrinklot wrote:
For those on the fence about the booster singles or the box, a few online game stores are selling the boosters for $3ish and the full box for $60ish.

I doubt i'll buy a full box, but I might pick up a few boosters for that price, just to supplement and spice up the collector's pack decks.


Could you give us links for full box for $60ish? This price is much reasonable.
 
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