Ryan Powers
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OK. So I'm in a position in a current game and am contemplating taking advantage of Exception #1 to rule 9.31. IN all cases I am talking about SK, not SK*.

9.31 says Skirmishers may not shock attack.

Exception #1 is SK May shock attack CH and routed units


So far, so good. The potential targets are CH, so I *can* in fact shock attack.

How does it work though? Let's go through the steps:

b]A) Shock Designation[/b]. This one seems straightforward enough.

B) The Charge (pre-shock TQ checks). As far as I can tell, both the SK and the CH check as normal.

C) Personal combat/leader loss. Should work as usual, though not likely to be relevant in this particular game.

D) Clash of Spears (determine superiority & column). Here's where it starts to get ugly.

Question #1 System Superiority: Can SK gain system superiority vs CH?
-SK do not have an entry on the Shock Superiority Chart (but SK* do)
-The design note at the end of 9.2 might imply that they are Attack Superior, though it's possible that it intends to refer to SK*. In any case design note != rule.

Question #2 Position Superiority: Can the SK gain position superiority?
-I see no reason why not. Potentially provided that only SK are involved. Technically 9.31 Item 2 applies to SK*, but I can't see SK being better at it than SK*.

E) Resolve Shock: Here's where halving (or not) the cohesion hits comes into play.

Question #1:Cohesion hit halving or not?

As written the cohesion hit halving only applies to *defending* skirmishers:

Halve (rounding down) all Cohesion Hits, with a maximum of
'1'
, inflicted (solely) by Skirmishers defending in Shock
Combat


However, 9.31 Item one explicitly talks about it in the context of attacking skirmishers (SK* in that case) using the doubling from superiority to counteract the halving:

If an SK* unit attacks an enemy through its flank or rear, thus
gaining Position Superiority, the halving of enemy losses still
applies--as does the doubling because of Superiority. In essence,
the two balance out and the end results is that the printed result
applies.


So... does it apply to attacking SK or not? One of these rules is wrong/incomplete as it applies to SK*, and even worse as it applies to SK.

Question #2a: How does the one hit cap apply given the answer to question 1?
Does the x2 and x1/2 cancelling out also remove the cap? Or is the damage still capped at one? Much like the last question the rule about the cap is written to apply only to defending SK. So what about the "the printed result applies" from the last rule snippet?

Question #2b: How does the one hit cap apply given multiple attackers?
If the cap does apply, is that SK can cause one hit per attacking SK, or per target unit? In other words if I send two SK at a CH unit, am I capped at one hit or two (or maybe even no cap depending on the answer to 2a)?

F) Check for possibly breakthrough. Once the cohesion hit questions are sorted, this seems straightforward enough again.

G) Check for Possible Collapse and Rout. Again, once the other issues are sorted out, seems straightforward enough. Keeping in mind that neither SK nor CH rout in the traditional manner.

Summing up, the rules for attacking with SK* are a bit fuzzy, and the rules for attacking with straight SK are even more so. Here are my answers, but if I were confident in them,. I wouldn't be asking...

I am inclined to say that the design note applies, so SK can get system superiority like the SK*, but will be the first to admit that the justification is shaky. Since I don't have an entry on the table for SK at all, I have to pull data from wherever possible.

I further assume that they can gain Position Superiority given that only SK are attacking. But again, these rules seem more slanted at SK*

As far as the halving and the cap questions, those seem to be based on an actual contradiction in the rules, and so really have no idea which makes the most sense.
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Tobrukker
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SK attacking chariots follow SK* rules. Treat as SK*.

Halving applies to attacking and defending. Attack Superiority thus negates the halving. The 1 hit max. is per combat.
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Ryan Powers
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marque du lion wrote:
SK attacking chariots follow SK* rules. Treat as SK*.

Halving applies to attacking and defending. Attack Superiority thus negates the halving. The 1 hit max. is per combat.


I'm certainly not saying you're wrong, because your conclusions line up pretty well with mine, but do you have any rules justifications for that response?

Making assumptions about what is applicable is fine and all, but becomes an exercise in futility when the rules providing the foundation your are extrapolating from are themselves contradictory.

All that said, that's pretty much how I intend to play it unless I get solid information otherwise.

As far as I can tell, there is nothing that prevents the CH from having to take the pre-shock check if they choose not to withdraw, and that's where I'm looking for the real "work" to get done. The resulting hits from combat are more a consolation prize.
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Jon
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I think you folks have it right. There is logic to the conclusions you are reaching I feel.

Interesting how we manage to turn up a few questions here and there in these well worked through rules. Just goes to show that any rule set is a work in progress I suppose.
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Ryan Powers
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Failed to get my line command, so had to send in the slingers with individual orders instead. Made it somewhat less cool than I had hoped, but did still manage to take out a CH with a SK.

Achievement unlocked!

Thanks for the assist
Tobrukker
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