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Subject: what is the mindset for a criminal deck. rss

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Jonny G
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I have made a sharper and anarch decks that were successful but for some reason I can never seem to make a criminal deck that works. Can you guys give me any advice on what strategies or mindset I need to have to make a successful deck?
 
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Carl Frodge
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Run Run Run Run Run Run Run Run Run.
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Carl Frodge
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In all seriousness, I only have experience with Gabe, and very little experience at that. But in that experience, I've found that Gabe focuses on making runs on R&D and HQ (and ocassionally Archives) a lot more than trying to make runs on remote servers. You're basically stealing 80% of your Agendas form R&D or HQ and only running remotes if you can easily get in or for the benefit of a card like Bank Job.

In my short experience, I find most of my steals are from R&D. Basically, you want to put a lot of pressure on HQ, and then when you have a good opportunity, make a bunch of runs on R&D (especially if you can get in there with The Maker's Eye at an opportune time.)

I'm sure someone else can elaborate, correct, and expand on what I've already said.
 
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Jonny G
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so what do you use for card draw?
What events do you find most useful (other then AS )?
what do you use for money?
any reason to not use desperado?
what programs are the most helpful?
 
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Philip von Doomula
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Erin OConnor
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Well, this is what I have:

Deck Created with CardGameDB.com Android: Netrunner Deck Builder

Identity:
Andromeda: Dispossessed Ristie (Humanity's Shadow)


Total Cards: (45)

Event: (21)
Account Siphon (Core) x3
Sure Gamble (Core) x3
Emergency Shutdown (Cyber Exodus) x3
Special Order (Core) x3
Networking (Humanity's Shadow) x3
Forged Activation Orders (Core) x3
Quality Time (Humanity's Shadow) x3 ■

Hardware: (7)
Plascrete Carapace (What Lies Ahead) x2
Doppelganger (A Study in Static) x2
Clone Chip (Creation and Control) x3 ■■

Program: (9)
Ninja (Core) x2
Crescentus (A Study in Static) x3
Peacock (What Lies Ahead) x2
Corroder (Core) x2 ■■

Resource: (8)
Kati Jones (Humanity's Shadow) x2
Armitage Codebusting (Core) x3
Same Old Thing (Creation and Control) x3

Influence Values Totals -
Anarch: 4
Criminal: 48
Shaper: 9


(I have not played this yet but...)

The basic idea is take the corps hard earned (or ill gotten) credits and make them yours. When you run on their servers de-rez their ice. When they are poor you can forge activate their ice making them discard it. By forcing the corp to re-rez their ice you are spending their credits for them when you are not stealing them.

The other cards are economy, support to scrub tags/endure meat damage and dig the deck to get what you need.
 
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Kaiwen Zhang
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You have to exploit weaknesses in the corp defense. Criminals have tools to punish all centrals (r&d via influence) and remote, so use them wisely when needed.

Making runs also makes you money with Desperado, but don't be too careless and make mistakes, like running into destroyers or getting flatlined.

You need a good knowledge of the corp's options and what is possible for them to do with the credits they have and evaluate your own options based on that.

Quote:
so what do you use for card draw?
What events do you find most useful (other then AS )?
what do you use for money?
any reason to not use desperado?
what programs are the most helpful?

card draw can definitely be an issue for criminals. you need special order to ensure you can keep running. you can splash for diesel or procon, or rely on Mr. Li.

emergency shutdown IMO is the second best event for crim. even using it on ices that are 4-5 credits a big boost. I used to hold them for bigger ices but found it's not that necessary, instead use it whenever you feel like it to set the corp's tempo back.

money is usually not an issue. go with easy mark, sure gamble, dirty landry, daily cast, etc. Desperado is key though, I wouldn't play a criminal with less than 3x. I also found lucky find to be quite good.

Desperado is the very best, no reason to use anything else. Doppleganger and Blackguard are OK, but the opportunity cost of not using desperado is too huge.

Sneakdoor is really nasty as a early-mid program to pressure the corp even more, especially if you see they're low on ices to spare. Savoir-faire is really good to make the corp rez ices for no reason and for click compression purposes.
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Carl Frodge
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gawbo005 wrote:
so what do you use for card draw?
What events do you find most useful (other then AS )?
-I find all of the ones I use to be useful when I need them. I'm limited to the core set, and a few data packs. These are the events I run:
-Sure Gamble
-Infiltration
-Account Siphon
-Diesel
-The Maker's Eye
-Inside Job
-Special Order
-Forged Activation Orders
-Easy Mark

Quote:
what do you use for money?
-Sure Gamble
-Infiltration
-Account Siphon
-Easy Mark
-Armitage Codebusting
-Bank Job
-Desparado
(There are better options, like Kati Jones, too)

Quote:
any reason to not use desperado?
-no

Quote:
what programs are the most helpful?
I like these:
-Ninja
-Femme Fatale
-Corroder
-Gordion Blade
-Crypsis
-Data Sucker or Knight (Knight's probably a better option)
-Sneakdoor Beta

Again, there are a lot of better or alternative options out there.
 
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Michael McLaughlin
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gawbo005 wrote:
so what do you use for card draw?
What events do you find most useful (other then AS )?
what do you use for money?
any reason to not use desperado?
what programs are the most helpful?

Just my opinions here, but TIFWIW:

- I've always run 3 Quality Time in Criminal. You really shouldn't have to worry about the influence because your base cards are so strong to begin with. Some builds have used Mr. Li with success, and I'm not here to debate which is best, but those are the two options I would choose from.

- If you're on the AS plan first and foremost, which I think you should be, use Forged Activation Orders and Emergency Shutdown. Shutdown is particular is absolutely brutal right now with so many decks splashing Archer.

- Not using Desperado is like saying, "I would like to make it needlessly difficult to win, just for the challenge." Here's the thing: Your economy in Criminal comes from running. Since you have to float tags from time to time and you're trying to be aggressive as possible, resource-based drip econ isn't a good option. So run Desperado and never look back.

- Most helpful programs are icebreakers. Seriously though, beyond the simple icebreaker + Datasucker suite, you don't need much in the way of additional programs, but Crescentus is very good in some versions of Gabe, since it gets out of the way once it's done its job. Some good versions of Andromeda run a singleton Keyhole just to pressure multiple central servers, but these options are generally considered "spicy." If you're new to criminal, just run icebreakers + Datasucker (and Sneakdoor Beta in Gabe), and you'll be fine.

Hope that's helpful to you. Best of luck!
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Ray Saltrelli
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gawbo005 wrote:
so what do you use for card draw?
What events do you find most useful (other then AS )?
what do you use for money?
any reason to not use desperado?
what programs are the most helpful?

Mr. Li is amazing for drilling through your deck and finding the cards you want/need. Special Order is also great for finding a much needed breaker ASAP.
 
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Stan Adecla
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Desperado is great, but don't fall for the circlejerk over the console since day 1. Doppelganger is good, and it's especially good after Bank Job and Siphon runs. Doppelganger can give you the option of fairly safe 2nd click Siphons, allowing you to run somewhere else and still have 2 clicks to remove the tags with, especially against NBN. If you're only sitting at one core set, but have the extra data packs, consider playing around with it.
 
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Yi Sheng Siow
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basic strategy

1. run and pressure centrals, trying to get corp to rez and break their own economy.
2. siphon corp.
3. emergency shutdown ice of 4cost or higher.
4. continue to pound centrals and hold remotes hostage using inside job.
5. figure out where is the best place to get the last few points. it can be HQ, R&D, or remote. you have to figure it out.
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Shane Ruman
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Probably played about 50 games with criminal (Andy and Gabe) and off the top of my head:

- inside jobs are often the all-star of the game for you -- sniping cards from remotes early end then combo'ing with other cards to get them later. Especially when you consider you have 6 of them with same ol' thing in there and can take changes (using them to get into HQ to pull that emergency shutdown, etc.)

- Knights are great surprises. I've won a number of games dropping a knight on an ice behind the first that was troublesome / unknown then inside jobbing past the first. Makes those ice forts corp thought was secure into very unsecure.
 
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Scott Kincaid
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the philosophy that I take to criminal is this :

"What would be the worst thing to possibly happen to the corp right now ? How hard can I kick them in the balls , and not stop kicking them ?"

-- to clean that up a little bit --

"How can I completely control the pace of a match and make the corp play reactionary as long as possible ?"

All of criminals best cards/tools involve controlling the corp's tempo.

Account Siphon , Inside Job , Emergency Shutdown , Desperado , and Sneakdoor Beta all are great examples of this.

Let me explain the concept of tempo in netrunner , and how to quantify it to make it easier to calculate.

The definition of "Tempo" is the rate , or speed , something moves. To put this in netrunner terms , it is how fast you can win the game , or improve your board state to an optimal position. If you are constantly improving your board to a point that your opponent cannot adequately defend itself from your attack , then you've essentially won the game (barring a mistake). It is very important to be able to develop your board quickly , and constantly "be ahead" of your opponent (regardless of whether you are corp or runner). If a player has to add steps , this takes away from their tempo.

EG : You're the corp. You have an agenda in hand , and a server that the runner cannot seemingly get into. Installing the agenda into that server and advancing it (threatening scoring points) , is an improvement in your board state. The Runner must now make a play to prevent you from scoring. You are ahead in tempo. This is evident because the runner must now play reactionary to you.

This may seem elementary , but it's a basic example of how tempo works. We can break this down even further though. In the previous example , the corp only had to accomplish 1 thing to further their goals (installing and advancing an agenda). The runner had to accomplish TWO things to prevent this (installing the card that they needed to get into the server , and then running the server). Since we're talking numbers now , we can quantify tempo in a very basic way. How many things , or "moves" , do you have to accomplish to put you in a position to score points. In the previous example , the corp is ahead by 2 tempo.

How is this relevant to your question ? Because of what I said earlier , about the best criminal tools are all excellent tempo tools. Let's look at Account Siphon.

When this card is played , money is being spent by the corp in some way , shape , or form. Be it from rezzing ice on HQ , or from getting hit with the siphon. If the corp gets hit by the siphon , then you've essentially cost them some tempo , and gained some yourself. This is because the corp needs to recoup its losses AND you've now gained money to further your own goals. The corp is now forced to do something that they didn't initially want to do. Detracting from their goals , taking away their tempo.

This is also a common theme , taking away the corp's tempo. Inside Job does this as well (the corp now needs to double ice their remote and have the money to rez both ice to defend the agenda). Shutdown doesn't need to be explained. But Desperado ? That's a tempo tool ? Yep.

Because you get efficiency out of your runs. This means you take less of an economy hit to make runs. Less clicks for cash is more clicks for anything else. You stay ahead. Plain and simple.

In closing , look at criminal as how to slow down the corp as much as possible from doing what they want to do. They'll make more sense if you do.

End of rant --- I also suck at writing. I really should clean up my rants more.
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Bryant Smith
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Dawson Smith
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First of all: No, you absolutely don't need to be running 3x Desperados. Come on.

(Sidenote to the douchetastic douche in this thread who implicitly told new players that they need three core sets in order to play Crim properly: you have been awarded the Douche of the Month Prize. Please collect it in the dumpster behind the Applebees where you probably spend your time anyway.)

Anyway, Desperado is great, yes, but it mostly helps Crim at the thing they're already best at, i.e: economy. Crim is flooded with cards to keep their economy rolling. They don't need to waste their console slot on it.

In-faction, the better Crim console options in my opinion are Doppelganger and Logos, depending on your strategy. Extra clicks are always welcome, and crim players should be spending them on runs anyway, so Doppelganger is great. Logos (which I run) gives Crim some much0needed tutoring, in addition to extra hnd-size, which is basically protection against all 3 kinds of damage the corp can do to you.

As to the original question: Crims run, a lot. They use ICE-breakers that are the most efficient right out the gate. These breakers is most likely where they will spend their influence. They are extremely flexible.
 
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Andrew Brown
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you do realise this thread is a year old, right?
 
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Dawson Smith
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Yeah, and I was amped up and a little tipsy when I wrote my earlier response, so I sincerely apologize for being a dick in it. Seriously. Netrunner players tend to be good folks and assuming any bad faith was stupid on my part. (So, again, apologies to Kaiwen Zhang)

As for it being a year old, it is still near the top of google's responses for how to play as crim, and so still worthwhile.

I've been honing my strategies, and definitely believe that having one each of your breaker suite and a lot of tutors is best. Then fill up with economy and run events. My current, so-far very succesful Andy deck, uses 3x Dysons's mem chips, 3x Data Folding, and 3x Underworld Contacts, among other things.

Inside Job seems to come in and out of favor in the meta, but to me, it's more of a quintessential Crim card than any console, or even Account Siphon (though Account Siphon is still incredibly important.) Think of it this way: Account Siphons are the Crims' best way of weakening the corp, but Inside Jobs are their best KO punches. I tend to use my recursion on InsideJobs, and that wins my games half the times.

Hope this helps, and again, I'm genuinely sorry about my tone up above.
 
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