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Subject: What would you have done?! - Strategic discussion on different situations rss

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Guido Schmuelling
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Hello everyone!
I was playing solo mage knight the other day and I am trying to get better at this game. I therefore tracked most of my early turns and figured, that I could do a kind of walkthrough with all users interested.
I hope, that I and everyone else is going to learn from this whole experience, if people are willing to share their thoughts and strategic thinking.
Therefore, I would suggest the following:
I will post a certain game situation with as much information as I am able to give you (hopefully something close to 100%). Everyone is welcome then to participate in the discussion. I would suggest, that actual moves are done in spoilers then to avoid biasing other people.
After some time, I will post what actually happened, my reasoning behind the turn and continue with a new game situation.
As this would require some effort, I would first like to hear, what you guys think of the whole idea.
Have a great day,
Cheers
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Dave
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Re: What would you have done?!
I really like this idea!
 
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Will Reaves
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Re: What would you have done?!
I think it's a great idea; unfortunately I doubt I will have time to actively participate. Hope it works out, though.
 
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Matthew Vanek
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Re: What would you have done?!
Love the idea!!
 
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Peter de Boer
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Re: What would you have done?!
Great idea, looking forward to it.
 
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Guido Schmuelling
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Game Situation No. 1
Allright then! I really hope this works out the way I want it to. Educational and entertaining

Szenario 1: Mines Liberation
Mage Knight Basic Game - No expansion
Players Character: Goldyx
Dummy Player: Arythea
Round 1 Turn 1

I chose to play a Mines Liberation Szenario just to mix things up a little. Therefore, I rated the boni in the end just the same as for the solo conquest option (all mines bonus etc.) I apologize about the cards being german, but I think you guys are smart enough to figure it all out

If you do not want to be biased, make sure that you do not look through my whole gallery. There might be some more pictures there, that you are not allowed to look at whistle

Things to consider in this situation:

The map:


The offers/source:

Blue, Red, Green Source Mana; Meditation, Wings of Wind, Tremor; Pure Magic, Ambush, Into the Heat

Herbalists, Peasants, Wild Monks

The opening hand:

Stamina x2, Manadraw, Rage Swiftness

The basic strategic questions I would like to give you along are:
What does the map offer? What is tough, what is easy? What are the problems, what opportunities are there?
What is interesting in the spell, AA, unit offer? What is a must have or what is something that we could easily miss out on.
What tactic would you chose and why? Why would you not choose any different one over this tactic?
How would your turn look like (in spoilers maybe) and how do you plan your 2nd or even 3rd turn? What do you set yourself as your goal for the first day?

I think that I will let the discussion go on for a few days maybe and then continue with my actual move, reasoning and the new situation.
 
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Jeff Thornsen
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Re: What would you have done?!
Opening Map, I see 2 viable paths to take:
1. Head south, towards the Mage Tower and Village. You can walk straight to the Village without provoking the Orc Summoner. If the Mage Tower has a bad defender, you might be stuck in the corner. Also, there are no units available to recruit in the Mage Tower this turn.

2. Head north, and fight through the Orc Summoner's. Explore from the Village and then perhaps move into the Glade. This seems like the better path to me.

Great Start looks like it would provide a good chance of letting you beat one of the Orc Summoners (Another blocking card and/or Concentration). If you draw Influence, then take the 2nd choice of recruiting at the village near the Mage Tower.

Edit: Even if you draw crap, you can handle almost any brown token draw:
-Medusa is the worst - you'd have to play rage and sideways cards to block, and then not be able to kill the Summoner.
-Minotaur might force you to block with 5 sideways cards, but you still kill the Summoner.
-Anything else you can take wounds or block, depending on which cards you draw and how many wounds you are willing to take.

I could be convinced to try Rethink, but I think this is a pretty good opening hand. The only issue is the lack of White/Gold mana in the source on the first turn.
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Sam Carroll
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Re: What would you have done?!
I concur with Faranim and go north. I'd take Great Start and see what comes up. Two move cards to get between the Orcs and fight one of them. If you get Will Focus on your draw, you can waste the Summoner at range (combo with Swiftness); if not, see if you can come up with 6 block, which will take care of most brown enemies (particularly the Medusa). In this case, I'd plan on powering Rage to kill the summoner and use Mana Draw to power Determination if it comes up.

If you can't find 6 block, it might be better to head south and check out the mage tower, perhaps recruit at the village. Unfortunately, 4 physical siege attack from Savage Monks won't kill any purple enemies, so I'd probably just take peasants for their flexibility. Wings of Wind/Night is a good spell to grab if you can. Tremor/Earthquake is great, but more helpful in the late game.

As for advanced actions, I generally avoid Pure Magic, but Goldyx should have enough mana to make it work well, so that would be my first choice. But it also depends what skills I draw when I level up, of course.
 
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Georg D.
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Re: What would you have done?!
I agree on what the others said. But I would consider taking planning and move to the space between mage tower, orc and village. Doing nothing else the first turn.

- The first turn is a bit slow but that doesn't matter that much in a solo game. With planning you will draw enough cards to play all cards in this round.

- playing one card nearly the same way as the others planned and drawing 2 cards my chances to kill the orc are the same.

- As I split movement and combat I have either 1 mana more or 1 card more in my hand.

- I have a chance to roll gold or white mana before I have to fight.

- At this space I'm very flexible on what I want to do next - I even see the tower-defender.

- In opposition to great start, planning will help me the whole round.

Rest depends on carddraw, mana source and tower-defender.
(with a bit of luck I either draw concentration or I draw swiftness and roll gold/white for ranged kill of the orc summoner.)
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Phil Pettifer
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I'd take Planning as there are several difficult fights at the start of this game and Great Start will only help you handle the first of them.

I'd power a Stamina and move SE, E and see what's in the Mage Tower. And if it was something I could reasonable expect to be able to deal with (after taking a few wounds probably) then I'd move to the Village. Then I have the option of recruiting, attacking the Mage Tower (possibly after Plundering the Village) or even moving back to the NW to defeat the Orc Summoners (if I drew Concentration but not much else).

The green mana in the source is often very useful in the first round of a game as you tend to take wounds early and so may need to power Tranquility. In this game it's even more important due to what's in the various offers. I'd try to keep this mana available for as long as possible.

My main aim would be to recruit at the Village, and then defeat the Mage Tower (taking Tremor) and the Orc Summoners. With a fair bit of luck it would even be possible to liberate the mine in Round 1 but it's not likely. I'd imagine I'd end the round in the village, having explored to the east, but ready to liberate the mine in round 2.
 
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Jeff Thornsen
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oops, I never played Mines Liberation before. I didn't realize that not all of those Orcs are rampaging.

Agree that Planning on the first turn makes more sense than Great Start.
 
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Georg D.
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Faranim wrote:
oops, I never played Mines Liberation before. I didn't realize that not all of those Orcs are rampaging.


Totally missed that too.

In this case I wouldn't turn towards the mage tower but towards the mine.

In my experience mines liberation solo is a race against the time. You have to free 6 mines in 4 rounds. This leads to a pattern:
round 1: move towards mine 1, fight at mine 1, move towards mine 2
round 2: fight at mine 2, move towards mine 3, fight at mine 3
repeat for round 3 and 4.
You don't have enough combat cards to do many fights outside of mines (if any at all).
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Guido Schmuelling
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Hey guys, I am really enjoying this so far. I think I will be able to post the new situation tomorrow around this time.
I should add though that since I could not find anything in the rulebook about it, only the Red City is a core mine tile. So 4 Lvl 1 Mines and one Lvl 2 mine.
 
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Georg D.
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schmuelle wrote:
I should add though that since I could not find anything in the rulebook about it, only the Red City is a core mine tile. So 4 Lvl 1 Mines and one Lvl 2 mine.

What's about tile *2*? It has a mine printed on...
 
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Mat J
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Solo mines on a 4 round game is quite, quite difficult (to me at least), so concentrating on the mines seems the only option really. Planning is the way to go, since you'll need to get to the mine and then attack next turn. holding that mana draw could be enough (giving you many options on the re-rolled blue die) to at least kill the dungeon monster. Worst case is the flipped brown is a medusa, and the summoner pulls a medusa too.

If this wasn't mines, I'd take planning, move south to see what was in the mage tower, and end turn. with 6 cards on turn 2 I could choose to either go recruit at the village, hit the tower, or snipe the summoner.
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Guido Schmuelling
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Fluxx wrote:
schmuelle wrote:
I should add though that since I could not find anything in the rulebook about it, only the Red City is a core mine tile. So 4 Lvl 1 Mines and one Lvl 2 mine.

What's about tile *2*? It has a mine printed on...

Not sure what you mean. I think that the szenario tells you to use the red city and 1 (2, 3) core Tiles for 2 (3, 4) Players. Therefore I figured that I need no core tile when soloing.
 
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Georg D.
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OK, I thought you wanted to say that there are no other coretiles with mines in the box.
How to handle the scenario solo is unclear. The only 'rules' I know are these: mines liberation- solo. But reducing it to 1 core including city is reasonable. With 6 mines solo is not much fun because there is not enough time for everything.
 
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Guido Schmuelling
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Game Situation No. 2
So here we go!
Since there is no real right or wrong in this discussion, I will just post my thoughts and move now. I really get some new ideas from your opinions though

The map is quite dangerous right from the getgo. No easy place to go.
The source is quite nice and my starting hand has a good mix of move and combat cards. Nevertheless, I do not have enough to take out either of the summoners. The two directions to go are very clear. Either the mage tower or the mine. You guys are clearly right, when saying that time is the biggest enemy in this szenario. Also, it is really tough to beat a mine within a single blow with your character only being lvl 1.
I like spells, and the wings of wind spell is surely not to bad in this szenario (tremor and meditation did not seem very good to me, as tremor seems best in city fights and meditation I thought was hard to value), but if I spend my move to go to the mage tower, the goal must be to conquer it, as all the rest of the paths are pretty much blocked by mountains/deserts and it will take quite a lot of time to conquer the tower. Therefore, I figured that I might aswell take the northern route, which basically meant that I either move into the village provoking the summoner or spend much more move to get there safely. I figured that stepping into the village and killing the summoner in one turn might be the best idea.
The most suitable tactic for this in my opinion was Planning, as I did not have enough combat cards to kill that summoner and Great Start was not surely going to get me to the village right away. Mana Steal could have been justified as well, as I was going to need a lot of mana for my first couple of fights, but I really do not like the tactic in solo games and digging one card deeper the 2nd and 3rd turn seemed much more valueable.

Considering the AA/Unit offer, I felt that Into the Heat is probably not as good in a 4 round szenario as the others are. Another concentration like effekt in ambush coupled with move seems pretty good for mine fights. As does Pure Magic, because we are going to get some crystals from the liberations anyways. Getting a unit before the next round (either one from the village) seems like a no-brainer.

So here is my actual move:

Powering Stamina with a blue die from the source to move NE, E. Ending my turn I drew March and Improvisation

Not much has changed, so here is my new hand:

Stamina, March, Swiftness, Improvisation, Rage, Manadraw
Blue got rerolled to Blue, so source stays at Blue, Red, White.

You guys are up next!

 
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Georg D.
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That is a tough decision. My first reaction was to go for the mine as fast as possible. But as I have to spend 3 movement for it the fight will be to hard. So my next idea is:

don't move! Provoke rampaging orc. hope for a manageable summon. If unsure what cards to play in the fight you should get rid of improvisation (powered by march) because that is the fighting card with the worst damage/card ratio.
The AA you take for leveling up depends on what cards are played and what skill you get.
Ambush is a great card and together with swiftness it can give you enough ranged combat power for killing the orc summoner on the mine.
On the other hand pure magic can be quite helpful too and as you said in his scenario crystals aren't that rare.
Nonetheless I would try to keep swiftness on my hand and take ambush as AA. (It is a bit tricky as you need white mana for swiftness and propably want to use the white mana in the source to generat two red mana with mana source. But the Chance is high you have white mana the next turn: you can roll white or gold, you can draw crsytalize or concentration, you get the skill with blue crystal+white mana.)
 
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Guido Schmuelling
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Game Situation No. 3
Allright, sad to see that only good old Fluxx is making a stand here, but I will reward him for it

I felt like picking up a unit for the first mine might be a good idea. This meant, that I needed to go into the village first and spending quite some time recruiting and moving backwards. However, I thought that not taking the mine down in one hit or taking a lot of wounds or even the risk of worse, the time spent at the city might be even worthwhile.
Therefore I did the following:

Use March for Move 2 E into the village provoking the summoner.
No Range Attacks. He summons a Minotaur. I play Mana Draw powered by a white die to get 2 red mana token from the red source die. I play Improvisation powered by a red die discarding Stamina to get 5 Block. I play Rage powered by a red die to kill the summoner. Getting 4 fame, 1 reputation, leveling up.


The skills i got to choose from were Green Crystal Craft and the "Might" skill, which lets you play cards with mana sideways.
I picked up the crystal craft in combination with the AA Ambush, which seemed like a good idea since I had no green mana in the source. Having spent Mana draw already I was not to big on the pure magic and Ambush seemed great as I had already spent 3 of my big movement cards. Crystal mastery replaced ambush in the AA offer.

I rerolled die white die to green and drew Ambush, Swiftness, Promise, Rage and Will Focus.

Things to consider in Situation No. 3:

The map:

Goldyx being in a village.

The offers/source:

Blue, Red, Green Source Mana; Meditation, Wings of Wind, Tremor; Crystal Mastery, Pure Magic, Into the Heat


Herbalists, Peasants, Wild Monks

The hand:



PS: I am sorry for not keeping track of the dummy player. That is something I did not take a picture of
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Georg D.
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Thank you for carrying this on. But I'm not sure if it is worth it. It is quite fun but if I'm the only one who follows it it is perhaps too much effort for you.

If you want to coninue:
The situation is a bit difficult. You couldn't use planning and want to spare most cards for the next turn. As you have no white mana you need 2 cards for hiring a unit. In addition the most interesting unit (monks) is not available in a village. Usually I don't care for villagers and prefer the herbalists. in this situation I think you need movement more than healing. (Tranquility isn't gone yet). So I would use mana-powered concentration with promise and hire the villagers. (I want to reroll the green die as I can get green from the skill.)
 
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Mat J
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(It's been an oddly slow weekend on the MK forums, tabletop day keeping everyone busy?)

I'd probably go for the herbalists myself. Although movement will be at a premium, I'd be thinking wound management here for these tough mine encounters coming.

But either would serve, I think it would just be personal preference most times.
 
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Jeff Thornsen
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As much as I hate wasting Concentration/Will Focus like this, I think the best thing is to Will Focus + Promise and recruit Peasants.

With Ambush, Swiftness, Rage and the Peasants for next turn, there is a good chance of taking out the Mine. We can also pillage the village next turn for more cards if necessary.

Edit: Well, I guess we could pillage this turn and hope to find Threaten. This would let us save Will Focus for the mine.
 
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Guido Schmuelling
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Game Situation No. 4
My thoughts were the following.
Picking up the Peasants for Movement was my first idea, too. As I said earlier, I had already burned a lot of movement this round. I was considering what was left in my deck and what I could possibly be doing with it.
There was another Swiftness, Crystallization, Determination, Tranquility, Threaten and March. However, there was noch white mana die in the source meaning that it was going to be kind of hard utilizing both swiftnesses to its fullest potential. Especially, if I would burn my concentration now recruiting a unit.
I really wanted to conquer a mine on the first round. The goal was set.
I did not want to burn my concentration for a unit.
This basically meant recruiting the herbalists, which in turn meant that I had to burn either my last Rage or my Swiftness sideways for 3 Influence, as I was not able to power my Promise.
Blocking was not really an option in my opinion, as I needed all my cards for attack value and I had the Herbalists to heal 2 wounds plus the tranquility on top of that. I decided that the upside of killing a brown monster in the range phase outweighed the 1 damage more of the Rage.
I was quite confident that I would be able to get the mine, even if it meant plundering the village if necessary.
So here was my actual turn (which took me about 20 minutes to decide ):

Use Promise and Rage (sideways) for 3 Influence, recruiting the herbalists. End my turn in the village.

Things to consider in the following Game Situation No. 4:

I drew Threaten, Determination and March.
My hand was then those three cards plus Ambush, Will Focus and Swiftness.
I had the herbalists at my disposal as well as a source containing green, blue and red. My skill is the Crystal Craft which gives you a blue crystal and a green token (not sure, if I had that wrong the other situation).
The map was the same:



The question still remains:

What would you have done?

 
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Georg D.
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difficult to say. I would plunder the village then use the skill to generate a green mana (and blue crystal). Empower Ambush with green mana and play threaten sideways.
The rest depends on what cards I draw from the village and what brown token awaits me at the mine.
 
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