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Subject: Message deleted for "Arranging a sale" rss

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Greg S
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I asked on a game-specific forum a simple question - does anyone have a copy of a particular expansion available.

Later today, the message was deleted.

I have asked this question before, and have never had an issue.

My problem with this is twofold:

1. I was simply inquiring if a copy was available - how else am I supposed to do this and remain "compliant"? Do I simply add it to my wish list and HOPE someone sees it?

2. There is an assumption that any sale will not be done through the Marketplace, which I resent. You are assuming dishonesty - from a paying customer no less.

Complaint over. Things stand as they stand, but I'm not happy. shake
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Matthew M
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There is a Marketplace section on every game page. We assume anyone interested in selling will have it listed there already, making a thread unnecessary.

Moderators can only respond to posts they are made aware of - we can't read every single thing posted to the site. Someone must have reported your thread yesterday, which is why it was deleted when previous threads had gone unnoticed.

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Jonathan Harrison
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One thing you can do, that I have done, is geekmail people who have the game you’re looking for listed as “For Trade”. I’ve bought games before that way that weren’t otherwise listed in the BGG Marketplace. I found traders fairly willing to list their for-trade items in the Marketplace for me to buy there.
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Susie_Cat
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Observations: Not everybody lists every game they have that they would be prepared to sell or trade; people are often more prepared to part with something when they know someone else will treasure it.

True story: I said "I would really, really like this game, it is my number one grail game, but I don't expect to ever get the chance to play it nevermind own a copy." Same day, a person sends me a GeekMail offering it for sale at a fair price.

Susie_Cat.
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Susie_Cat wrote:

Observations: Not everybody lists every game they have that they would be prepared to sell or trade; people are often more prepared to part with something when they know someone else will treasure it.

True story: I said "I would really, really like this game, it is my number one grail game, but I don't expect to ever get the chance to play it nevermind own a copy." Same day, a person sends me a GeekMail offering it for sale at a fair price.

Susie_Cat.
My only concern would be now that you tried it once, and it worked, that you want to try it again. And now everyone reading this topic wants to try it.

I don't think it's beyond the scope that this could easily run into a few messages a day of similar requests, which would certainly not be something I would want from the games that I am subscribed to.
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Chris
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HuginnGreiling wrote:
One thing you can do, that I have done, is geekmail people who have the game you’re looking for listed as “For Trade”. I’ve bought games before that way that weren’t otherwise listed in the BGG Marketplace. I found traders fairly willing to list their for-trade items in the Marketplace for me to buy there.



Of course, if one of those users whom you geekmail decides to complain (and consider it spam), then there's a whole different set of problems that emerges (see this, just a few days ago.

I don't know why asking if anyone has an expansion available that they're willing to part with should be considered verboten ... I agree with the OP -- it's basically like job-seeking. If you wait for someone to list it, 1) it's not when you want it; and 2) you have to deal with *everyone* bidding (or, if it's a sale, you could simply miss it). But, if you *network*, you may find something that isn't even available yet (and, perhaps, you may convince someone *to* list their copy for sale.



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Jonathan Harrison
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Lemur wrote:
HuginnGreiling wrote:
One thing you can do, that I have done, is geekmail people who have the game you’re looking for listed as “For Trade”. I’ve bought games before that way that weren’t otherwise listed in the BGG Marketplace. I found traders fairly willing to list their for-trade items in the Marketplace for me to buy there.

Of course, if one of those users whom you geekmail decides to complain (and consider it spam), then there's a whole different set of problems that emerges (see this, just a few days ago.

Wrong! This is completely different.

In the thread you linked, a Kickstarter designer GMed BGG users asking them to buy his product.

There is nothing in BGG policy against GMing a user to ask him whether he’d be willing to sell (instead of trade) a game he has listed for trade.

I’m not even sure what you’re trying to say here.
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Chris
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HuginnGreiling wrote:
Lemur wrote:
HuginnGreiling wrote:
One thing you can do, that I have done, is geekmail people who have the game you’re looking for listed as “For Trade”. I’ve bought games before that way that weren’t otherwise listed in the BGG Marketplace. I found traders fairly willing to list their for-trade items in the Marketplace for me to buy there.

Of course, if one of those users whom you geekmail decides to complain (and consider it spam), then there's a whole different set of problems that emerges (see this, just a few days ago.

Wrong! This is completely different.

In the thread you linked, a Kickstarter designer GMed BGG users asking them to buy his product.

There is nothing in BGG policy against GMing a user to ask him whether he’d be willing to sell (instead of trade) a game he has listed for trade.

I’m not even sure what you’re trying to say here.



I'm saying, unsolicited mail can always be perceived as spam. That's been proven in courts of law. It all depends on how much someone wants to be offended by it ....
 
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Jonathan Harrison
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No.

You are taking this discussion nowhere helpful by standing on a point you’re trying to make without reflecting on how insupportable it is.

Because by your reasoning, the GM I just got entitled “Enjoy yr posts” (no, I’m not making this up) could be considered spam.

Except that it can’t. Simply being unsolicited doesn’t expose something to being legally actionable as spam. Neither does commercial intent.

Spamming (think about how the word is used in electronic gaming) is bulk mailing. It is not privately GMing a trader to ask whether he’d sell instead.

Do I really have to say this?

There is no danger (good grief!) to GMing a user to inquire whether he’d be willing to sell instead of trade a game he has listed himself as being willing to trade.

Are you really trying to spend your time warning people that asking a trader whether he’d consider selling one of his listed games instead of trading for it could expose them to legal liability?

You’ll pardon my saying so, but this discussion has become ridiculous. You were wrong in comparing (a) GMing a trader to inquire about selling instead to (b) mass-mailing people trying to sell things to them; and instead of acknowledging the error of your comparison, you’re doubling down on your original argument, which can only discourage exactly the sort of behavior the trading/GMing interfaces are there to help facilitate. You are actively being unhelpful here.

Despite what you’re saying, GMing a trader to ask whether he’d consider selling instead of trading is acceptable and is a good idea.
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J J
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Lemur has history with regard to BGG and its rules in this area. He doesn't like them.
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Susie_Cat
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crambaza wrote:
Susie_Cat wrote:

Observations: Not everybody lists every game they have that they would be prepared to sell or trade; people are often more prepared to part with something when they know someone else will treasure it.

True story: I said "I would really, really like this game, it is my number one grail game, but I don't expect to ever get the chance to play it nevermind own a copy." Same day, a person sends me a GeekMail offering it for sale at a fair price.

Susie_Cat.
My only concern would be now that you tried it once, and it worked, that you want to try it again. And now everyone reading this topic wants to try it.

I don't think it's beyond the scope that this could easily run into a few messages a day of similar requests, which would certainly not be something I would want from the games that I am subscribed to.


I should clarify: When I posted, it was in response to a GeekList item and I was genuinely just commenting how very sad I was that I would never get the chance to play it. There absolutely NO intent to "solicit" offers.

I have seen probably a thousand of this type of comment over the years. The point I was trying to make is that the Geek in question would have got way more by placing said game in the Market place, however, he said saw my comment, he knew I wasn't just out to make a quick buck and asked what I would pay. I told him and we came to an arrangement. I hesitate to second-guess his motives, but I belive he had a couple of copies and he saw my comment and decided that I was a "good cause" so he would sell it for a reasonable amount. It is now one of my most treasured games especially as it is an example of "The Kindness of Geeks".

And I will never sell it. Ever.

Susie_Cat.
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Chris
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HuginnGreiling wrote:
No.

You are taking this discussion nowhere helpful by standing on a point you’re trying to make without reflecting on how insupportable it is.

Because by your reasoning, the GM I just got entitled “Enjoy yr posts” (no, I’m not making this up) could be considered spam.

Except that it can’t. Simply being unsolicited doesn’t expose something to being legally actionable as spam. Neither does commercial intent.

Spamming (think about how the word is used in electronic gaming) is bulk mailing. It is not privately GMing a trader to ask whether he’d sell instead.

Do I really have to say this?

There is no danger (good grief!) to GMing a user to inquire whether he’d be willing to sell instead of trade a game he has listed himself as being willing to trade.

Are you really trying to spend your time warning people that asking a trader whether he’d consider selling one of his listed games instead of trading for it could expose them to legal liability?

You’ll pardon my saying so, but this discussion has become ridiculous. You were wrong in comparing (a) GMing a trader to inquire about selling instead to (b) mass-mailing people trying to sell things to them; and instead of acknowledging the error of your comparison, you’re doubling down on your original argument, which can only discourage exactly the sort of behavior the trading/GMing interfaces are there to help facilitate. You are actively being unhelpful here.

Despite what you’re saying, GMing a trader to ask whether he’d consider selling instead of trading is acceptable and is a good idea.




So, you're saying ... I have 1700 games. Simply by being ON this site, I am saying I allow myself to receive solicitations from people to see if I'm interested in trading/selling (even though I don't have said items LISTED as "for trade/for sale.")

In fact, there is no limitation to how much email I could receive -- I could receive three emails, per day, for *every* game I own, requesting if I was interested in trading/selling and -- simply because I have an account here, I have to take it. I have no recourse?

So - yeah - personally - I'd rather see someone post something that says, "Anyone got this available (which could also be a trade!)" As compared to be deluged with emails.

And, from Wikipedia's definition of spam: Email spam is a subset of electronic spam involving nearly identical messages sent to numerous recipients by email.

I would say, based on *that* definition -- that emailing, say, 30 members who have a game in their collection, to see if they are interested in selling/trading the game, would qualify as that.

It's irrelevant, though -- if I were to receive an email like that, I'd simply ignore it. If it happened again, I'd probably report it to the admins (since, again, we *have* an area where I can list items for sale/trade). I would not have an objection to someone posting in a forum.

So - is it supportable? I think it is, based entirely on how I would react to such an intrusion. But, the thread was about posting in a forum. Someone else recommended emailing users. I'm simply saying that may not be the wonderful idea everyone else thought it'd be.

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Lemur wrote:
So, you're saying ... I have 1700 games. Simply by being ON this site, I am saying I allow myself to receive solicitations from people to see if I'm interested in trading/selling (even though I don't have said items LISTED as "for trade/for sale.")

No... he's saying that if you have a game listed for trade, it is acceptable to GM you to ask if you'd be open to selling it instead of trading it.
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Chris
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Genghis wrote:
Lemur wrote:
So, you're saying ... I have 1700 games. Simply by being ON this site, I am saying I allow myself to receive solicitations from people to see if I'm interested in trading/selling (even though I don't have said items LISTED as "for trade/for sale.")

No... he's saying that if you have a game listed for trade, it is acceptable to GM you to ask if you'd be open to selling it instead of trading it.




You are correct -- I stand corrected and I apologize.

I misread his original post (probably because it's happened to me before).

I thought he meant to email anyone who owned the game, at all -- to see if they'd be interested in trading it .... (and that has happened to me ... oh ... probably 50-60 times since I've been a member here). (since that would be closer to what the OP would be looking to do -- basically, find people who don't have the game listed as for trade/sale and seeing if they would still be interested in trading/selling it).

My apologies for misreading the original post. Obviously, what Jonathan said is correct -- me listing a game as for trade (or sale) effectively gives permission to email me to inquire.
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