Recommend
6 
 Thumb up
 Hide
9 Posts

Virgin Queen» Forums » Rules

Subject: French Activitation of an Ottoman Venice rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Chris S
Canada
Vancouver
British Columbia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Hello everyone,

This situation cropped up in a game we just played. The Ottomans are at war with Venice, and had taken Venice and Cyprus (for the VP). Then Spain plays Holy League, places 4 influence on the Papacy and wins it. Then Venice is activated by France. The Ottomans are allied with France. We were very confused by the rules. It seems to state that you would remove the key marker only if the controlling power is eligible to activate Venice, which would seem to rule out the Ottomans as they can only deactivate Venice. However, it also mentions that any troops in Venice would be displaced, which doesn't make any sense. The rules were really not very clear in this section.

Thanks!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
MLeis
Estonia
Tallinn
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Troops only need to be displaced if they occupy spaces that have a control marker removed. Since Ottoman control markers don't need to be removed, their troops can stay.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris S
Canada
Vancouver
British Columbia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
So if a minor power key is conquered, even by a major power eligible for diplomatic influence (say Spain was conquered by Venice), would the markers not be removed if Venice was activated?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steven
United States
Spokane
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
"The mystery of life isn't a problem to solve, but a reality to experience"
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
cs9804 wrote:
So if a minor power key is conquered, even by a major power eligible for diplomatic influence (say Spain was conquered by Venice), would the markers not be removed if Venice was activated?


No in this case it is different, because Spain is a power which is eligible to activate Venice. It's also worth remembering rule 24.6 (Resolving Diplomatic Status, pg 41 of the living rules):

Quote:
4. Activate: If the winner is listed as an Activate power and does
not currently have this power as an ally,
then deactivate the power from its current ally (if any) and then activate it as an ally of the winning power. If the Activated power is the Ottoman or Holy Roman (a game with less than 6 players), refer to the Scenario Book for instructions on Activated Major Powers.


So in order for Spain to lose control of the Venetian key during a diplomatic check, two things have to be true:

1. Spain does not win the diplomatic check of Venice.
2. A new power has to become the ally of Venice (EX: The HRE previously was allied to Venice and now France becomes its ally).

If both of these happen then you would remove the Spanish scm marker and any non-Venetian units, or units not controlled by the power activating Venice would be displaced.

Check out 24.4 (Activation, pg 39-40) in the living rules:

Quote:
3. Place Square Control Markers: Remove control markers from any keys of this minor where the control marker is from a major power that was eligible to activate this minor during this status check. Units that are not from either this minor power or the activating power are displaced if they occupy one of these minor power home spaces that just had a control marker removed. Keys of this minor power that now have no control marker on them are then marked with square control markers from the
activating power.

4. Place Hexagonal Control Markers: Remove control markers from any non-key spaces of this minor where the control marker is from a major power that was eligible to activate this minor during this status check. Units that are not from either this minor power or the activating power are displaced if they occupy one of these minor power home spaces that just had a control marker removed. Non-key spaces of this minor power that now have no control marker on them are then marked with hexagonal control
markers from the activating power.


So the Ottomans are immune to losing Venice, or any Venetian territory they conquer to a diplomatic check, because they can never activate Venice. On the other hand Spain, France, or the HRE risk losing the key in certain circumstances to a diplomatic check.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Zack S.
United States
Honolulu
Hawaii
flag msg tools
mbmb
SW_Cygnus wrote:
So in order for Spain to lose control of the Venetian key during a diplomatic check, two things have to be true:

1. Spain does not win the diplomatic check of Venice.
2. A new power has to become the ally of Venice (EX: The HRE previously was allied to Venice and now France becomes its ally).

If both of these happen then you would remove the Spanish scm marker and any non-Venetian units, or units not controlled by the power activating Venice would be displaced.

I think it's worth reinforcing that this is only the case when Spain conquered Venice (while it was allied to another power). If they win it diplomatically (even after they conquer it), then they'd lose it to a deactivation.

Also worth noting that if they declared war on the minor power (Portugal or one of the major-minors), then they're no longer able to influence the power and can ignore further results.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris S
Canada
Vancouver
British Columbia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
So if Spain ever declared war on a deactivated Venice, and it failed to activate, Spain could keep it indefinitely as they are no longer eligible to place influence due to them declaring war. However, if the Ottomans declared war on Venice and Venice failed to activate, would the Ottomans also lose their influence marker? (not that it would really matter, since they couldn't lose Venice itself).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Greg Forster
United States
Pleasant Prairie
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
badge
"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning" - Dr. Reiner Knizia
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Section 9.4.2 (page 13) says if you DOW a minor you remove your influence marker. This is not limited to powers qualified to activate so it also applies to the Ottoman as a deactivate power.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Zack S.
United States
Honolulu
Hawaii
flag msg tools
mbmb
cs9804 wrote:
So if Spain ever declared war on a deactivated Venice, and it failed to activate, Spain could keep it indefinitely as they are no longer eligible to place influence due to them declaring war. However, if the Ottomans declared war on Venice and Venice failed to activate, would the Ottomans also lose their influence marker? (not that it would really matter, since they couldn't lose Venice itself).

Spain cannot declare war on Venice. Unless there is a cost on the diplomacy chart you cannot declare war. They can declare war against Portugal though, in which case they would lose their marker and would not be affected by diplomatic resolutions.

The Ottomans do lose their influence marker if they declare war on Venice. From then on Venice can only ally with new powers, it can never deactivate.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris S
Canada
Vancouver
British Columbia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Thanks a lot!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.