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Subject: Dark Valley vs. A Victory Lost rss

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Alex N
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How do you think Dark Valley stacks up against A Victory Lost: Crisis in Ukraine 1942-1943? Both employ the chit-pull mechanism and are lauded for their playability and innovativeness. However, A Victory Lost has been criticized for it's component quality among other things.

Other than Dark Valley is a semi-monster game (which of course can be broken up into several play sessions) is there any good reason why I shouldn't drop A Victory Lost from my wish list and just buy Dark Valley? I really don't have room (or the funds) to buy both games.

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Kev.
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2 different games, with a different focus. There are other issues with AVL asides lack lustre map and counters.

TDV is a look at the entire campaign. AVL is look at an operation. If you want Operational I would look at A Victory Denied. Same designer etc, same mechanics better game in my view.

The only similarity for the two titles you mention is 1. East front 2. Chit pull it ends there.

I'm not saying TDV is awesome or better, just that AVL is not all that and a bag of chips.
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Adam Starkweather
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Just a quick correction - I designed A Victory Denied and Tetsuya Nakamura designed A Victory Lost.

If it matters, AVD is currently in print and AVL is likely to be reprinted somewhat soonish.

Red Star Rising would be a better comparison with Dark Valley in my stable of games.
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Kev.
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adamant wrote:
Just a quick correction - I designed A Victory Denied and Tetsuya Nakamura designed A Victory Lost.

If it matters, AVD is currently in print and AVL is likely to be reprinted somewhat soonish.

Red Star Rising would be a better comparison with Dark Valley in my stable of games.

Thanks Adam. My Bad I took it as a IGS title and ASSuMEd
 
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Darrell Hanning
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If I was going to pick one of the two to keep, I'd pick TDV. It covers the whole war on the East Front, and AVL is only one Soviet offensive (albeit a big one).

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pat cristy
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Adam, I love your WED great game. Santa (me) gave it to me Christmas 2012. Played it for months. Grand tactical (WED) to Operational (ALV) to Theater (TDV). All chit pull games. I have fallen in love with chit pull it seems.

Alex, I have to admit that I haven't played AVL and don't own its sister game. But I've viewed all the videos and read most the rules. I'm stuck on TDV. From what I can tell its very tense. I like the victory point system with the uncertainty. Seem like a good maneuver game. One thing that bothered me is the designer's solution for dealing with the armor units (sorry Adam). The attack value are high but defense too low. I understand the rational and it probably works well. Forcing the play to use the various resources correctly. Just mentally hard for me

I was fortunate to get both and a few other last winter. But ADV has captured my interest completely. If you like playing the whole ETO go with TDV but if you prefer an Operational game you might like ALV.

BTW... I have a big gaming table up stairs. But as I'm approaching retirement, I don't like stairs But I finally discovered VASSAL. Solves the space problem and you can restart instantly. Doesn't replace the joy of looking over the map and all those beautiful counters.

Hope this helps.
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pat cristy
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small correction. TDV is only Eastern Front not ETO but I think you get the point.
 
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