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Subject: Shooting when no opposing disc is on the board rss

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mike hunt
United Kingdom
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Could you please tell me, given that no opposing disc is on the board in each case:

* shooting disc - ends wholly in 10 circle, but hits a friendly disc that was previously wholly in the 10 circle onto the 10/15 border line. Do you remove any of the discs? Or is this legal?

* shooting disc - hits two friendly discs that were already in the 10 circle, none of the three discs involved end up on/over the 10/15 border line. Do you remove all of the discs? Or only the shooting disc?

* shooting disc - comes to rest touching a disc that was already on the 10/15 border line. The existing disc remains on the 10/15 border line, but the disc that struck it is fully within the 10 zone. Do you remove either/both discs? Or is this legal?
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Andrew Farrington
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Eagan
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I play:

1. All remain (legal)
2. All removed (not legal)
3. All remain (legal)

Have fun!
A.
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Matthew Rooks
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Kobe
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I'm aware different people play with different rules, but I always thought that as long as no opposing discs are in play, your own discs can never be removed (provided they remain fully on the board).
 
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mike hunt
United Kingdom
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I think it makes sense to remove your own discs (although we don't currently play that way), just because it's a game-balancing mechanism, which is generally a good thing.

I guess you could stay something like this

'If no opposing discs are on the board, then if at least one of the discs impacted during the shot is on/over the 15 line after the shot has been taken, then the move is legal. Otherwise the move is illegal, and all discs impacted during the shot are removed from the board.'
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John Grapentine
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Utica
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user276 wrote:
I play:

1. All remain (legal)
2. All removed (not legal)
3. All remain (legal)

Have fun!
A.


There are definitely rules variations, but as far as a lot of Canadian Crokinole leagues are concerned and as well as the World Crokinole Championships, this response is absolutely correct.
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Brad Miller
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jigmelingpa wrote:
I'm aware different people play with different rules, but I always thought that as long as no opposing discs are in play, your own discs can never be removed (provided they remain fully on the board).


I used to think the "must be in the 15 ring" was a stupid rule. Then I played two player against someone who hid his discs behind the pegs, making them nearly unclear able. I thought it was cheap BS. In a four player game, I still think it is pretty superfluous, but with 2, I'm okay with it now...
 
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Matthew Rooks
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Got it. I was completely unaware of this rule, and must've been playing a very simplified version of the ruleset.

Granted, when I play with friends, we have never gotten into a situation with someone "hiding" discs, so it probably has had zero impact on how we actually play, but good to know. I also usually introduce Crokinole to people who are playing it for the first time, so explaining this extra condition probably isn't worth the hassle (unless someone takes advantage of the hiding tactic).
 
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Fred Slater
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Hello,

The answer to these questions are based on rules for competitive crokinole adopted by the National Crokinole Association. (Canada)

Item 1 Both discs remain. This qualifies as a valid shot.

Item 2: The shooter and all discs touched are removed from play and may not score.

Item 3: Provided the discs are touching or touched during the shot both discs remain. This is a valid shot.
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Demian Johnston

Connecticut
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fslater wrote:
Hello,

The answer to these questions are based on rules for competitive crokinole adopted by the National Crokinole Association. (Canada)

Item 1 Both discs remain. This qualifies as a valid shot.

Item 2: The shooter and all discs touched are removed from play and may not score.

Item 3: Provided the discs are touching or touched during the shot both discs remain. This is a valid shot.


Up voting this response. Fred literally wrote the rules for the the Canadian National Crokinole Association. He and I discussed this very rule while playing at last year's World Crokinole Championships in Tavistock, ON.
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Matthew Rooks
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Can you explain the precise rule behind item 3? Not sure I understand it.
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Heroic Monkey
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This exact rule (found here http://www.nationalcrokinoleassociation.com) is this: "If there are no opposing discs in play, then the shooting disc or at least one disc struck during the shot must end up touching or within the 15 line."

I'm kinda surprised to hear this because I've never heard of this rule before - I thought only the disc being shot on that turn had to end up on or within the 15 line. Interesting.
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Demian Johnston

Connecticut
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Game Guardian wrote:
This exact rule (found here http://www.nationalcrokinoleassociation.com) is this: "If there are no opposing discs in play, then the shooting disc or at least one disc struck during the shot must end up touching or within the 15 line."

I'm kinda surprised to hear this because I've never heard of this rule before - I thought only the disc being shot on that turn had to end up on or within the 15 line. Interesting.


This is a common misunderstanding of the rule. In fact, i was involved in engaging a judge to clarify it at last year's WCC.

The point isn't about the shooting disc, but how the shooter leaves the board. Requiring the shooting disc to be in or touching the 15 could require 2 discs in the center. Allowing the flexibility of a combo still allows for some strategic play while preventing unopposed "hiding"

The point comes down to the balance of maintaining the element of strategy within the game while minimizing the potential advantage of leaving a disc behind a peg.
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Chris
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Game Guardian wrote:
I'm kinda surprised to hear this because I've never heard of this rule before - I thought only the disc being shot on that turn had to end up on or within the 15 line. Interesting.
Your understanding is the same as what is posted at Stan Hilinski's site and is how I was taught many years ago. I prefer the tournament rule though, so now I just have to retrain myself to use it.
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