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MERCS: Recon – Counter Threat» Forums » Rules

Subject: Beta Rules rss

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Greg
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I figured I'd start a thread with some specific questions toward the Beta rules that are available on the KS page. If nothing else, the designers can get an idea of some rule contents that may be lacking or lacking in clarity, and then can address it and update the Beta rules before testing.

I'll just start out with a couple questions before heading to bed.

1. Watching the recent video, Brian didn't have an OPFOR shoot at MERCS because he was behind 3 of his OPFOR teammates.

A.)Is there going to be rules preventing MERCS or OPFOR from shooting through areas with other figures?

B.)Or are you going to be able to shoot through areas that have minis in them but the ones in between will be subject to damage?

C.)Would there be a way to use a focused attack to shoot at an Agent in an area on the other side of an employee without affecting he employee, or is it going to always affect figures between shooters?


2.)If a MERC is in the same area as an OPFOR, if he wants to attack, does he have to attack an OPFOR in his area, or can he shoot at another OPFOR in another area? Some games force you to deal with the mini in the same space and don't allow for ignoring it to make a ranged attack elsewhere, so I was just making sure but not assuming it's the same for Recon.

3.) Is there any difference in how the OPFOR perform melee attacks as oppose to their normal ranged attacks?

4.) Are MERCS allowed to move out of an area that has one or more Agents in it? Some games (Heroscape) force you to risk taking a leaving engagement wound unless you have an ability that negates that, other games (Mice and Mystics) allow you to move out of a space with enemies unless there are more enemies in that space than hero characters.
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Brian Shotton
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1. The answer is B and has more to do with the level of the SecFor in the video than an general OPFOR rule. If a MERCS/OPFOR shoots past an area with minis, those minis offer the target Armor. Soak dice are added to the attack roll. Soak results are counted as damage towards those in the area. SecFor 1-2 don't put friendlies in harms way. SecFor 3-4 do.

This information would be in a side bar in the rules. It has not been added yet. I hope to post Beta 1.2 soon. The new version has the information above, as well as the full rules for B&C, and examples.

I will also be adding "Your First Game" text, although this may appear as a separate book.

2. He would have to deal with the mini in his area. Although he could Move out first...see #4.

3. There are no OPFOR who perform melee attacks yet. There could be some, but we would have to unlock them. Their rules are similar to the MERCS melee attack.

This is a special rules with two of the Mission Packs. These rules would appear on a special one-sheet with the pack.

4. There are some special SecFor that can capture and interrogate MERCS. If they have majority in an area (the MERC in the area is outnumbered), then the MERC cannot leave. If they do not have majority, or the SecFor cannot capture, the MERC is free to leave as long as he has the CP to spend.

This is a special rules with two of the Mission Packs. These rules would appear on a special one-sheet with the pack.

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Christina G.

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BShotton wrote:


I will also be adding "Your First Game" text, although this may appear as a separate book.



Brian, I would personally love to see a first game booklet with this game. I find it easier to learn a game if I can start playing, even if it is just a basic game, then move into the full blown rules once I grasp the basic concepts.
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Greg
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Thanks Brian for answering so quickly. As I look through the rules more I may post more questions here. My only purpose in this is to help you recognize ahead of time some questions that may come up and be able to account for them in updated rules.

I know it's a pain, but updating rules regularly throughout the testing process is a huge help, as not only will the required changes be fresh in your mind, but the testers will continue to get updated rules and not misplay things or "wing it" as much, until you get to the point where you can have 2.0 rules to give blind testers X months from now and they will be really polished and save you some headaches later.

Also, I've found that if you make changes to existing text/language, or adding onto a paragraph, it will help the long term testers easily recognize changes from the last version.

I agree with Christina, it would be awesome to have a first game booklet for the game. Basic level, family level or whatever, those first game setups really help people to get a grasp of the basics before tackling the deeper stuff.
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Greg
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Quote:
3. Increase the Security Level
In every refresh phase, the security level has a chance of increasing. It increases based off a few immediate
conditions, or from any attack bursts rolled via the casualty pool. Only one security level can be advanced per
refresh phase. When a security level increases, the counter is placed on the lowest number in the new level.
Immediate Conditions: If any of these conditions are met, place the security level increase token in the
casualty pool. The presence of one of these tokens negates the need to roll for the casualty pool, because these
conditions automatically raise the security level.
• Completing the secondary objective
• Killing 3 Employees in a round
• More than 8 OPFOR miniatures in play
Doubling the number of collateral damage discs
• 0 1
• 1 2
• 2 4
• 4 8


Casualty Pool: The casualty pool is made up of OPFOR placed in the casualty pool area near the frame AND any
OPFOR killed in action and placed on the players boards.
Match up any miniature in the casualty pool with their respective d8 into a security level dice pool. Roll all the
dice at the same time. Any attack bursts rolled increases the counter one step on the chart on a 1:1 basis. Extra
bursts are discarded.


A couple questions for text in red above.

1.) Doubling the number of collateral damage discs has been a topic of discussion lately. First of all, 1 CDD isn't doubling 0 CDD. So that language should be changed, to something like "Upon placing the first collateral damage disc, and then upon doubling the number of collateral damage discs in play" or something to that effect.

There has been some confusion as to the number of CDD's that are out and when you raise the security level. By the rules above, it looks like it's upon placing 1st, 2nd, 4th and 8th CDD, the security level goes up. However, based on the recent playthrough videos, Brian raises the security level upon 1st CDD placed (okay), but then not when the 2nd CDD is placed, but then raises it when the 3rd CDD is placed. This is certainly not the way I would think people would interpret doing it by the way the rules are currently written. In fact, James who posted the Beta test post said they went 1,2, 4, 8 because that's how the rules were that they had. So if it is different than that, there needs to be a change to the rules for us to know, but also for the testers to know. If Brian misplayed it for whatever reason (overtired, whatever), then he should acknowledge this or confirm the correct intention so everyone's on the same page.

2.) Any attack bursts rolled increases the counter one step on the chart on a 1:1 basis. Extra
bursts are discarded.


This is somewhat confusing. It says to increase the counter one step on the chart on a 1:1 basis for each burst rolled, but then says that extra bursts are discarded. What are considered "extra" bursts? It's not clear. If 3 bursts are rolled, do I increase the counter on the chart 3 spaces or not? This needs to be clarified.


 
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Michael Callahan
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I think those Beta rules are a few iterations old:

Here is the clarification of the "doubling" issue from a week or so ago on the KS comments:

Quote:
No. It isn't when you double the total amount out. It is when you have placed double the amount from the last SL increase. Immediate SL increases based off of CDD will be on the frame. There are some mission pack with special rules regarding CDD, but for the general game the numbers are these. First number is out in the structure--> total number out 0-->1, 1-->3, 3-->9



Quote:
The numbers players need to worry about when placing CDDs: 1, 3, 9. We've never had a test get close to the next number, but the next number would be 27.


my question is on the latest video,... it seem like it a level two disc counts as three (perhaps because it requires three damage to go from level 1 to level 2)????
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Greg
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yamato2 wrote:
I think those Beta rules are a few iterations old:

Here is the clarification of the "doubling" issue from a week or so ago on the KS comments:

Quote:
No. It isn't when you double the total amount out. It is when you have placed double the amount from the last SL increase. Immediate SL increases based off of CDD will be on the frame. There are some mission pack with special rules regarding CDD, but for the general game the numbers are these. First number is out in the structure--> total number out 0-->1, 1-->3, 3-->9



Quote:
The numbers players need to worry about when placing CDDs: 1, 3, 9. We've never had a test get close to the next number, but the next number would be 27.


my question is on the latest video,... it seem like it a level two disc counts as three (perhaps because it requires three damage to go from level 1 to level 2)????


Thanks for digging that up Michael. thumbsup

The reason I started this thread was to go through the posted beta rules document and ask questions to help the designers (and us) see potential questions that need to be addressed. Stuff like this can help them update the rules they supply to playtesters in order to have the most current set available.




James Tolbert wrote:


That's good to know. I think we played that wrong in the beta test. Since that was recorded I'm sure they took note of our error.


Yeah, this is good to get fleshed out James. If the 1,3,9,27 thing has been around a while, they should have updated the beta rules before giving them to you.

That said, I'm sure there was some quality test results that you guys supplied, as you mentioned taking lots of notes and looking at things from different angles. But it would have been more optimal if you had the updated rules to use. Hopefully they keep this in mind and get the rules updated before any more testing is done. As a playtester, I always appreciate the most up to date rules or any other changes that have been made to components, as it allows for a more productive testing session and less redundancy.
 
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