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Cuba Libre» Forums » Rules

Subject: Bots to take guerillas off spaces to use somehwere else rss

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Rodi de Boer
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I think the bots will never take guerilla's off spaces to use them somewhere else for their Op/Event. Players would do this when it benefits them of course.


In my game at the final propaganda card after all actions had been doen, but the Free Rally of the Directorio, they (Directorio bot) had the chance to Free Rally in Havana (of all places).

They had one guerilla left, 4 bases were built, one of which in Havana City itself (just built with cash marker earlier in the same propaganda round). They didn't have any control on the board.

The best play would obviously be (but I might be missing something) to take enough guerilla's off of some spaces to free rally them into Havana City, especially since that would mean they get to their victory condition and win the game.


The situation up until the Free Rally is in this picture (after it gets approved):
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Volko Ruhnke
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Yup, you're right, the bots don't do that.

This is just to make the bots simpler to manage, as it will not come up that often that taking off your own piece makes such a big difference. There are many many possible situations in which a player will do something more creative or efficient than the dumb old flowchart (I hope!). So we give the bots other advantages ...

Cheers, Volko
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Rodi de Boer
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So what would you have done in this situation? (Not that it really matters)

Just curious.
 
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Jeff Grossman
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More clarification from Bot-whisperer Oerjan:

Quote:
Volko already replied to this one, but to elaborate a bit further: For a while during the development of A Distant Plain (which was simultaneous with the Cuba Libre development), its GovBot was allowed to remove its own cubes in order to Train them elsewhere - with the result that it almost always Trained in the maximum number of spaces allowed (or the maximum number it could afford, if less). We tried several iterations of this, but when the Training instructions grew too long and the 'bot *still* often removed cubes to Train in the maximum number of spaces, we went back to "Train only to place cubes from Available".

And that was just one single Op, with a fairly narrow set of conditions to meet, that caused all this trouble. If we expand the concept to instructions that (1) allows the 'bot to remove pieces to pull off smart Ops or Event plays (like the game-winning DR Rally described above) but (2) avoids wasting a lot of Resources (the way ADP's GovBot did...n't) and (3) *doesn't* make the 'bot do stupid removals at least as often as it does smart ones (e.g., at any time *other* than the final Propaganda, removing Guerrillas that block some other faction's Control and thus prevents Agitation/Civic Action/Construction wouldn't be very smart for DRbot)... then we end up with a set of very complex instructions, different for each 'bot, that take a long time to evaluate during play, and would probably still have exploitable loopholes in spite of our best efforts to prevent just that. Rather than add several more pages of complex rules for something that only rarely is important and has a big risk of backfiring, we instead went for the simple solution that works most of the time :/

If I'd been the DR player in that final Propaganda Phase, then of course I would've removed enough pieces to take Havana City by Rallying. But the flowchart I have in my brain for evaluating the situation on the game map and selecting the proper action is rather longer than a single page...
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Volko Ruhnke
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And just to clarify (in the "never say never" category), I was responding regarding Cuba Libre. In A Distant Plain, the Govbot does take its cubes from the map when Training, if needed (8.6.2 2nd bullet), a special case. After the back and forth that Oerjan mentions, we ended with that, mainly as another potential way for Karzaibot to inconvenience a Coalition player. vfr
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Volko Ruhnke
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MrFixxiT wrote:
So what would you have done in this situation? (Not that it really matters)

Just curious.

You're right, it doesn't! It really depends what you are after playing: the challenge of beating the bots as designed, a surrogate for playing against other human players, a good story told by the gameplay, or a good simulation of history. In the first case, I would not have removed a Guerrilla for placement in Havana and breathed a sigh of relief. In the other cases I probably would have reasoned as you did that a DR human would do so and followed that.

Hope that answers! Volko
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