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Subject: Tell us your RELIGIOUS reasons for political positions rss

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Moshe Callen
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μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος/ οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε,/...
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In response to the shtick that supposedly "religious reasons have no place in public discourse in a democracy", I invite people to give purely religious reasons for supporting political positions that most people would support. An example I gave in another thread is that I think I recall learning that Quakers, per their religious doctrine, support a separation of "church and state" (to use the American style Christian-centric phrase) again IIRC anyway.

I'll start: My religion forbids forcing anyone to act against their system of values and so I support freedom of religion.
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Boaty McBoatface
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Assuming you mean a deity based religion (and not a broader definition) none.
 
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Derry Salewski
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I assume there's some correlation between being both vaguely anarchist and agnotic-y.
 
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Boaty McBoatface
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scifiantihero wrote:
I assume there's some correlation between being both vaguely anarchist and agnotic-y.
Not really, I am agnostic and really loathe anarchy.
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Walker
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My religion teaches that all people are sinners, and therefore I oppose placing too much political power in the hands of a single person.
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Josiah Fiscus
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My religion teaches specific ways that I need to worship God. Therefore, the only two political systems that are acceptable to me are either one that is explicitly Christian or one that allows for freedom of religion. Anything else would morally obligate me to break the law.
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whac3 wrote:
In response to the shtick that supposedly "religious reasons have no place in public discourse in a democracy"....
Not a shtick that anyone is sticking to, I believe.
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Moshe Callen
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ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ/ πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν./...
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μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος/ οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε,/...
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Venga2 wrote:
whac3 wrote:
In response to the shtick that supposedly "religious reasons have no place in public discourse in a democracy"....
Not a shtick that anyone is sticking to, I believe.

Of course but also the problem comes that as had been seen here on RSP if a religious reason exists, all too often non-religious reasons coming from that person are dismissed."We know why you really ant it...." So in practice the notion very much does preclude religious people from the democratic process, however much those touting the principle claim otherwise.
 
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How about......... Abortion
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Moshe Callen
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ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ/ πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν./...
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μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος/ οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε,/...
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TheDashi wrote:
How about......... Abortion

Ah, yes.

As an Orthodox Jew, I support a woman's right to choose and her right to have an abortion because of Jewish Law. This includes the clear example where the Written Torah does not treat the killing of an unborn child as either murder or manslaughter.
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How about...... The Death Penalty
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Jasper
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whac3 wrote:
Venga2 wrote:
whac3 wrote:
In response to the shtick that supposedly "religious reasons have no place in public discourse in a democracy"....
Not a shtick that anyone is sticking to, I believe.

Of course but also the problem comes that as had been seen here on RSP if a religious reason exists, all too often non-religious reasons coming from that person are dismissed."We know why you really ant it...." So in practice the notion very much does preclude religious people from the democratic process, however much those touting the principle claim otherwise.
I am not sure I see that very often, but that is another discussion and I'll not derail this thread.

For many decades all shops in The Netherlands were closed on Sundays. That was explicitly on religious grounds and at the same time supported by the majority. As that majority diminished into a minority the laws have been progressively relaxed over the years. All as it should be. Democracy doing what it is supposed to be doing.
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TheDashi wrote:
How about...... The Death Penalty
What, I though religious (and secular) opinion is very divided on that. How does it apply to the question at hand?
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Venga2 wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
How about...... The Death Penalty
What, I though religious (and secular) opinion is very divided on that. How does it apply to the question at hand?


I think you just answered your own question.
 
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Moshe Callen
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ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ/ πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν./...
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μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος/ οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε,/...
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TheDashi wrote:
Venga2 wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
How about...... The Death Penalty
What, I though religious (and secular) opinion is very divided on that. How does it apply to the question at hand?


I think you just answered your own question.

My reason in the OP for talking about about positions most people would support was to make a point. We all know that there are religious reasons for backing views with divided opinion or against the majority. Specifically, across the spectrum, policies will have religious support as well as secular reasons. So the expression of a religious reason for support is not meaningfully grounds for dismissal as such. Saying it's not a reason that appeals generally is fine but also different.
 
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Walker
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"The significance of a person's life is determined by the story they believe themselves to be in." - Wendell Berry "If nothing lies beyond the pale of death, then nothing of value lies before it." - SMBC
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Thy mercy, my God, is the theme of my song, the joy of my heart and the boast of my tongue. Thy free grace alone, from the first to the last, has won my affection and bound my soul fast.
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Because my religion teaches that all human beings are created in the image of God, I support the notion that human beings have inalienable rights which no government ought to abridge.
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Walker
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"The significance of a person's life is determined by the story they believe themselves to be in." - Wendell Berry "If nothing lies beyond the pale of death, then nothing of value lies before it." - SMBC
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Thy mercy, my God, is the theme of my song, the joy of my heart and the boast of my tongue. Thy free grace alone, from the first to the last, has won my affection and bound my soul fast.
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Because my religion teaches that God desires sincere worship rather than rote or compelled worship, I oppose attempts to sent up a state religion.
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whac3 wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
Venga2 wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
How about...... The Death Penalty
What, I though religious (and secular) opinion is very divided on that. How does it apply to the question at hand?


I think you just answered your own question.

My reason in the OP for talking about about positions most people would support was to make a point. We all know that there are religious reasons for backing views with divided opinion or against the majority. Specifically, across the spectrum, policies will have religious support as well as secular reasons. So the expression of a religious reason for support is not meaningfully grounds for dismissal as such. Saying it's not a reason that appeals generally is fine but also different.


Having only religious reasons for a policy would tend to make me dismiss it. If there are non-religious reasons for a policy and your religion also supports it, good for you (and possibly others that share your faith), but irrelevant to me. I'm not sure what the problem is here.
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Moshe Callen
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ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ/ πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν./...
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μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος/ οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε,/...
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rshipley wrote:
whac3 wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
Venga2 wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
How about...... The Death Penalty
What, I though religious (and secular) opinion is very divided on that. How does it apply to the question at hand?


I think you just answered your own question.

My reason in the OP for talking about about positions most people would support was to make a point. We all know that there are religious reasons for backing views with divided opinion or against the majority. Specifically, across the spectrum, policies will have religious support as well as secular reasons. So the expression of a religious reason for support is not meaningfully grounds for dismissal as such. Saying it's not a reason that appeals generally is fine but also different.


Having only religious reasons for a policy would tend to make me dismiss it. If there are non-religious reasons for a policy and your religion also supports it, good for you (and possibly others that share your faith), but irrelevant to me. I'm not sure what the problem is here.

The problem is dismissal of expressions of religion in the political arena.
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Boaty McBoatface
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whac3 wrote:
rshipley wrote:
whac3 wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
Venga2 wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
How about...... The Death Penalty
What, I though religious (and secular) opinion is very divided on that. How does it apply to the question at hand?


I think you just answered your own question.

My reason in the OP for talking about about positions most people would support was to make a point. We all know that there are religious reasons for backing views with divided opinion or against the majority. Specifically, across the spectrum, policies will have religious support as well as secular reasons. So the expression of a religious reason for support is not meaningfully grounds for dismissal as such. Saying it's not a reason that appeals generally is fine but also different.


Having only religious reasons for a policy would tend to make me dismiss it. If there are non-religious reasons for a policy and your religion also supports it, good for you (and possibly others that share your faith), but irrelevant to me. I'm not sure what the problem is here.

The problem is dismissal of expressions of religion in the political arena.
Why is it any more valid then insanity or stupidity? A policy has to have solid foundations to appeal to someone. It is no more valid to make policy based on lack of information then it is to base it on myth.
 
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Moshe Callen
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ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ/ πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν./...
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μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος/ οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε,/...
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slatersteven wrote:
whac3 wrote:
rshipley wrote:
whac3 wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
Venga2 wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
How about...... The Death Penalty
What, I though religious (and secular) opinion is very divided on that. How does it apply to the question at hand?


I think you just answered your own question.

My reason in the OP for talking about about positions most people would support was to make a point. We all know that there are religious reasons for backing views with divided opinion or against the majority. Specifically, across the spectrum, policies will have religious support as well as secular reasons. So the expression of a religious reason for support is not meaningfully grounds for dismissal as such. Saying it's not a reason that appeals generally is fine but also different.


Having only religious reasons for a policy would tend to make me dismiss it. If there are non-religious reasons for a policy and your religion also supports it, good for you (and possibly others that share your faith), but irrelevant to me. I'm not sure what the problem is here.

The problem is dismissal of expressions of religion in the political arena.
Why is it any more valid then insanity or stupidity? A policy has to have solid foundations to appeal to someone. It is no more valid to make policy based on lack of information then it is to base it on myth.

Except religious reasons are given to state why a person supports it, not why others should do so. Yet that gets lost in the discourse and religious people's freedom of political speech gets trampled in the name of "secular democracy".
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Boaty McBoatface
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whac3 wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
whac3 wrote:
rshipley wrote:
whac3 wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
Venga2 wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
How about...... The Death Penalty
What, I though religious (and secular) opinion is very divided on that. How does it apply to the question at hand?


I think you just answered your own question.

My reason in the OP for talking about about positions most people would support was to make a point. We all know that there are religious reasons for backing views with divided opinion or against the majority. Specifically, across the spectrum, policies will have religious support as well as secular reasons. So the expression of a religious reason for support is not meaningfully grounds for dismissal as such. Saying it's not a reason that appeals generally is fine but also different.


Having only religious reasons for a policy would tend to make me dismiss it. If there are non-religious reasons for a policy and your religion also supports it, good for you (and possibly others that share your faith), but irrelevant to me. I'm not sure what the problem is here.

The problem is dismissal of expressions of religion in the political arena.
Why is it any more valid then insanity or stupidity? A policy has to have solid foundations to appeal to someone. It is no more valid to make policy based on lack of information then it is to base it on myth.

Except religious reasons are given to state why a person supports it, not why others should do so. Yet that gets lost in the discourse and religious people's freedom of political speech gets trampled in the name of "secular democracy".
Who has said they cannot say why they support a law? If someone gives a reason for supporting a piece of legislation it is beholden on those who oppose it to challenge their reasons. Why should "religious" opinions be given any more shift then any other kind of opinion?
 
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Moshe Callen
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ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ/ πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν./...
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μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος/ οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε,/...
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Lots of people have-- repeatedly. Were't you paying attention?
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whac3 wrote:
Lots of people have-- repeatedly. Were't you paying attention?
Obviously not no, as I cannot recall the last time a law was passed (or even a campaign launched) that wanted to restrict what people of faith could say or campaign for.

Perhaps you would care to point out any that I have missed?
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Rich Shipley
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whac3 wrote:
rshipley wrote:
Having only religious reasons for a policy would tend to make me dismiss it. If there are non-religious reasons for a policy and your religion also supports it, good for you (and possibly others that share your faith), but irrelevant to me. I'm not sure what the problem is here.

The problem is dismissal of expressions of religion in the political arena.


Why is it a problem? People should be as free to dismiss irrelevant speech as people are to utter it.
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