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Subject: Seeking Help Designing LoL/DotA-esque "kits" rss

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Adam Stapley
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Hello!

I'm working on my longest standing project, and am currently tightening the bolts on the characters themselves, as the mechanics are set. I'm looking for people to help me design Character Kits for each the six Characters. I'll include a little about each Character, as well as keeping the current progress of each Kit updated on here!

Current goal is for each character to have 15 well fitting, well rounded cards that support their role in the game.

Kenneth:
Kenneth is the proverbial tank Character. In addition to normal mechanics, Kenneth can power his abilities by drawing additional cards from his deck face down into his hand. These are essentially "dud" cards, but as in hand cards are also HP, this ability helps him tank, but do too much and you'll be stuck with a useless hand until the monsters take you down a few notches. Kenneth should only be capable of melee damage.

Current Kit:
-Pull a Monster Adjacent
-Pull self adjacent to a monster
-Taunt all near enemies
-Damage all enemies around
-Steal Health on Damage
-When damaged, damage one point back to the enemy
-Receive bonus damage next turn equal to the damage received this turn
-Stun any target damaged this turn
-Throw an ally
-Throw a monster
-Discard 2 face down in-hand cards to draw one card
-Stun each monster after it deals damage to Kenneth this tur
-Push back all enemies in a Cone
-Place 3 cards face down from the discard. These cards must be used as HP first. Any remaining deals damage to surrounding monsters next turn.
-Discard any number of cards (even face down) each card discarded this way does one damage to a nearby monster.


Harry:
Harry is the "assassin" or "rogue" of the group. He dabbles in the occult, and slips in and out of the shadows to damage an opponent. His cards are cheap, but weak individually, they must be played in large combos to be most effective. This, however, leaves him with few cards in his hand and as such, low HP. His mobility is low to moderate, unless he's approaching an enemy. Harry should only use melee. Harry is able to power his cards up by spending cards from the top of his deck, causing him to tire much more quickly.

Current Kit:
-Move to East of Target up to X spaces away
-Move to East of Target up to X spaces away
-Move to East of Target up to X spaces away
-Move to East of Target up to X spaces away
-If on East (In shadows), no aggro gained from this attack
-If on East, Extra damage
-If on East, Stun target
-If on East, Move after attacking
-Hexes an adjacent enemy, dealing damage (and thus aggro) on the following turn.
-If in the shadows, remove all aggro before enemy movement
-Sacrifice a number of life, deal that much damage
-Move X, damage any enemy passed by
-Damage now + Damage when attacked
-Retrieve a shadow card from discard
-Discard any # of cards, redraw immediately.




August:
August is an alchemist from the 19th century. He uses his vast experience of chemistry to throw powerful, but costly, Area of Effect damages at the enemy. This placed August into the "Mage" role, with powerful damage but little HP and low mobility. August should have a lot of AoE damage that can be thrown a short distance. August's equipment gets so damaged that he cannot recover as quickly as others once he's out. As an effect, when August runs out of cards in his deck, he becomes unable to act for longer than the other characters.

Current Kit:
-Lower aggro of friendly units in area
-unpassable wall
-damage now AoE
-Damage over time AoE
-Damage now + Over time AoE
-damage + Stun range
-Damage + Stun melee
-Damage now melee
-Damage now + over time melee
-Ice patch (doesn't require a movement point to move over)
-Change type of item (i.e. Rigid to Wire)
-Recycle a card from the discard pile
-Destroy a minion at 1 HP, refresh a discard pile
-Become immobile, cards cost less to play




Donovan:
Donovan is the school's Quarterback, and all around star athlete. He is, as such, agile, mobile, and able to throw well. He takes the Archer role of the game, providing consistent damage from afar, but if he gets put into a fight he will go down quickly. His extended distance and more powerful throws require him to set his feet. As a result, some of his skills are able to be made more powerful by sacrificing movement points. Donovan will have large amounts of range.

Current Kit:
-Keep this card on the table, attacks are ranged
-Keep this card on the table, attacks are ranged and stun
-Keep this card on the table, attacks are ranged and taunts
-Keep this card on the table, attacks are range and less aggro
-Keep this card on the table, attacks are range and 2x attack
-Pushes melee target back
-Melee + stun
-Can only damage or be damaged by target for X turns
-Return all expended movement points
-Push an enemy back and move with it. If it hits a wall, stun + Damage
-Discard a card to let an ally draw one
-Transfer half of the expended movement to another player.
-Discard X, no damage this turn
-Only take damage from the single highest source this turn
-Extra damage to a target already damaged at least once this turn



Maisy:
Maisy is the team's utility role, supporting, damaging, and healing all decently, but doing none of them incredibly well. As such, her deck will require several different directions. However, as she plays, her previous experiences are tracked. If you have several healing cards that you've played into the discard already, your healing will be more effective. After the next deck reshuffle, you may choose to specialize into another of the roles, by playing those cards into your discard pile. She attacks with her Saint Bernard, keeping it on a leash, allowing her to use an extended melee style.
EDIT: I've made Maisy very combo based, giving her strong opportunities to make big moves and combos three turns at a time.

Current Kit:
-Damage over 3 turns. Cannot use "Dog" card during this time.
-Makes a wall enemies can't cross for 3 turns. Cannot use "Dog" card during this time.
-Maisy doesn't gain threat over the next 3 turns (dog)
-Restores belief to a target
-No belief lost to any target around dog (dog)
-Enemy attacks another enemy in its range
- + movement (dog)
- Restore belief AoE
-Target draws one card face down in front of them (as a shield)
-Leash - 2 range attack
-Leash - 2 range attack + stun
-Leash - Damage to all within 2 spaces
-Leash - "Swing" enemy to any space within 2 spaces
-Leash - damage to any target that is adjacent over the next turn
-Attack and then retreat one step





Kelly:
Kelly is the primary healer of the group, as she is a Pre-Med student. Most of her cards lay around the idea of high cost with healing as the reward. The High cost, however, leaves her with low HP and vulnerable to attacks, or unable to heal efficiently. She has a limited number of tokens that she receives at the beginning of game she can use to power up her abilities. However, they're not replaceable, once they're spent, they're gone. Kelly's attacking should be primarily from a distance, but should be weak.

Current Kit:
-Heal target
-Heal AoE
-Heal all (several turns)
-Protect from extra effects
-Damage + Heal
-Damage this turn, stun next turn
-Stun + move
-Place a token. If enemy moves over it, damage
-Add health card to player's hand from discard
-+1 draw for X turns
-Cancel damage from one target
-Reduce incoming damage by X
-Move behind nearest ally
-Heal but stun player
-Deal armor cards
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Sturv Tafvherd
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got a link to rules / examples of play / pictures?
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Adam Stapley
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I can explain the rules quickly here!

Object:
The game is set around a college university with the world's only time machine. Through this time machine, monsters from Grimm tales are coming forth. In order to win, the players must use their items to close all of the open rifts in time or defeat the boss monster upon his or her arrival. (Just realized how much like Arkham Horror this sounds, it's not that similar).

Player Decks:
The game is played over a series of four years, with the students taking new classes each year. Starting with a 100 level class the first year, the players choose the class that they'll be taking for the year. Each class leads to different items being taken. These items are added to the player's deck of fifteen cards and act just like the fifteen character specific cards with one difference-- each item has a type. Types are such as Rigid, Sharp, and Wire. The type is used in a certain combination to close a gate. For example, if the rift is opened in a cupboard in one of the buildings, it may only require a rigid item wedged between the handles to close the rift, but different openings might take more creative solutions.

Combat:
Each player has a certain hand limit based upon their level. This hand limit is both their offensive capability and their HP. Each card has a cost and many have a secondary cost. The cost of a card is the number of cards that must be discarded in order to play that card. The secondary cost changes with each character (I explained how each person's cards are powered up earlier, that's their secondary cost). Each character also has a standard "attack" action that does a certain amount of damage for a certain cost. Players take their turns moving around the board and playing whichever cards they wish to play that turn, knowing that the more cards they play, the less HP they'll likely have left. I'm currently experimenting with dice rolls to see if that makes the combat better or worse.
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Adam Stapley
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I've updated the list with current progress! Will have more later.
 
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Adam Stapley
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Was at the beach for the last couple days, but am still looking for help with these. Think about things you can do in LoL or DotA that you really like the idea of, or think about things you'd like to be able to do in this type of game. Any help or suggestion is greatly appreciated!
 
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Adam Stapley
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Still really looking at these. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Even any idea
 
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Adam Stapley
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Bump for huge update
 
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Kevin Jeong
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Hi there. While the characters seem pretty Leaguey and interesting to me, the gameplay just doesn't draw me in.
To me it looks like the cards take a lot of book-keeping to handle and a lot of the game boils down to: go here, play card, go there, play card.

The beauty of League (to me) is that everything is incredibly fast paced and real-time. You have 10 different things going on at once at all times. It's hard to coordinate your team but when it all comes together, it's a beautiful show of explosions and flash.

It's really hard to emulate that in a board game as board games are start and stop at their core. You make a move and you stop and think about your next one while in League, you're constantly moving. I don't get that feel from the game as described. I like the idea, I like the roles, just maybe a different implementation.

Good luck!
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Adam Stapley
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Thank you for the feedback! I was actually just the other day talking about how I didn't think a league-like board game would ever work! Haha. I really envision this game more like Mage knight than I do like league. It is going to (hopefully) take the things I like most from mice and mystics (such as always having 4 players and being very beautiful) and mixing it with the replay value of Arkham horror and the combat of a heavier Mage knight esque game. It's not intended to play like league, I am just trying to make kits that feel like they're cohesive.

The game itself is entirely a cooperative game, and will have a feeling of "we need to do this now or it's game over" as you're over whelmed by the game. I guess a fair comparison might be myth, but I haven't played it yet so I'm not positive on that haha.

Essentially these fifteen cards are each player's "basic action" deck if you're a Mage knight player.

That being said, can you tell me about your concerns with the book keeping of the cards? That's a thing no really hate in games, and would love an outside view on how this game sounds. That's one of the reasons I hate maisy's current "enemy can't move" card, it adds a status to the game that would have to be kept track of, rather than the enemy either being stunned of not stunned.
 
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Kevin Jeong
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Don't know how you're handling all these statuses (DOT, stun, immovable, unpassable) but for me and my group, I would end up forgetting to either remove them or do their effect especially if there are a lot of statuses or a lot of monsters. For example August's impassible wall, if there isn't a physical wall to remind me to deal with it, with so much going on, I'm going to forget it. Also all the damage over time skills I'd end up forgetting to remove them when their time is up. The less I have to remember and the less I have to take care of during the enemy turn, the better.

Haven't played Mage Knight (really want to though!) so I might not be in your target audience but that's my hopefully helpful $0.02.

Good luck!
 
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Adam Stapley
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Thank you again for this!

I'll have to think about the Damage over Time, I for some reason didn't think of it as a book keeping aspect, but it's a major one. As for the unpassable wall and stun, there will be chits associated with these, so they'll be physically on the board, with tokens or a die or some way of keeping track of turns remaining on the board in front of you. For example, the wall might be a chit that you place on the board, leaving the card in front of you on the table. At the end of each turn you either turn the card 90 degrees until it's time to discard it or place a piece on it until it's time to discard it. As for immovable, that is something that at this time I don't really like. It's looking more and more like just a replacement for that one item is going to be necessary.
 
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Adam Stapley
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Bump again for huge update, all characters have tentative set made.
 
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Drew Hicks
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If you haven't played Sentinels of the Multiverse, I'd check it out. The game reminded me a lot of DotA in terms of character construction, abilities that sort of chain off of eachother, and so on.

Anyway, I'd consider minimizing the number of status effect as much as possible, and DoT is tough to deal with often. Sentinels has some similar problems with bookkeeping so you should keep track of that as well.

I'll have to look over these kits a bit more in depth but I think it might be to your benefit to have more copies of less different cards, just to keep the burden of knowledge low on different players.
 
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Taylor G
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Sounds a bit like a cross between Rise of the Runelords and Descent.

I have some thoughts on Kelly. Full time healers work okay in LoL or DoTa, but I don't know if it would be well fit to a board game. I could see the player using Kelly getting bossed around a lot. Her low health wouldn't let her do much but sit back and heal whoever needs it. I would be careful that playing her would actually produce interesting decisions, and not just there as an aide.

The video games you are emulating worked hard to make their support characters not boring to play, and many would argue that even now they haven't succeeded.
 
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Adam Stapley
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Drew: I agree with the status effects to a minimum-- I've weeded out everything except for stun and DoT. Both of these will be handled by using counters, a simple one for stuns and a counter (probably with a number) to put on both the card and target, with the card remaining on the table, and thus producing aggro, throughout the duration, which will be kept track of by turning cards 90 degrees at the end of each turn. As far as the fewer cards, with more copies, I've thought of employing this, but decided to go big at first and if that detracts then scale back, rather than the other way around.

As far the feedback on Kelly, that's a fair point for sure! I think I can look into her being much better at all of the non-combat aspects, such as having high mobility outside of dangerous areas and being more able to close portals. Perhaps her Pre-Med equipment can help with that, as a wildcard of sorts for class of item.
 
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