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Lords of Vegas» Forums » Rules

Subject: Betting - Laying off rss

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Donald Dennis
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If I want to bet in your Casino, do you need to have enough to cover just my base win, or double for double-pay out?

If you aren't required to have enough to cover double pay out do you have to lay off the bet to the bank?

If you aren't required to have enough to cover a double pay out and don't have to lay off the bet to the bank, and you didn't lay off the bet to the bank, does the gambling player only get standard winnings? Or do they take the rest from the bank?

 
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Rick Teverbaugh
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A casino owner never has to pay out more than he has whether he lays off or not, so I wouldn't wager more than you could possibly get back.
 
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quohog the great
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money is public knowledge as well so you know what your getting into.

in my group often times people will bet what the visiting bank has in order to either empty their earnings or force a layoff in which the better is in a better position if they lose.

Though we may have a different way of looking at things
 
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quohog wrote:
money is public knowledge as well so you know what your getting into.

in my group often times people will bet what the visiting bank has in order to either empty their earnings or force a layoff in which the better is in a better position if they lose.

Though we may have a different way of looking at things


You can't ever force a layoff. If I have 2M and you want to bet 4M, I'm not forced to layoff half just because I don't have it, and in this instance, I never would. If I accept the bet as is and win, I get the full 4M because that's what you wagered. If I accept the bet and you win, you only get my 2M because that's all I have to pay out.

So as the above poster said, don't ever bet more than you can possibly win back because you can't win anymore cash then player has on hand. The layoff is only to prevent large losses from another player when you have a large amount and they want to try to cripple you.
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quohog the great
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DoomTurtle wrote:
quohog wrote:
money is public knowledge as well so you know what your getting into.

in my group often times people will bet what the visiting bank has in order to either empty their earnings or force a layoff in which the better is in a better position if they lose.

Though we may have a different way of looking at things


You can't ever force a layoff. If I have 2M and you want to bet 4M, I'm not forced to layoff half just because I don't have it, and in this instance, I never would. If I accept the bet as is and win, I get the full 4M because that's what you wagered. If I accept the bet and you win, you only get my 2M because that's all I have to pay out.

So as the above poster said, don't ever bet more than you can possibly win back because you can't win anymore cash then player has on hand. The layoff is only to prevent large losses from another player when you have a large amount and they want to try to cripple you.


perhaps i have worded badly. but was meaning forcing a layoff is the best possible move for the person gambling against. in my games we all typically spend every possible dollar in order to maxamize potential gain since its only a tiebreaker in the end. so knowing this if its player A's turn and next is player B with 10mil betting 5mil in case they layoff isn't the best of moves (in most cases). What often a better strategy is the bet the full 10mil so the big decision goes to player b.

choices being risk your stack in which you do have the edge but miss a turn if you lose
layoff and get minimal return if you win or stiffled if not lost turn. and if a 2/12 rolls go bankrupt anyway.

i wouldn't advocate betting more than what they have in any situation with the exception of kingmaking in which case that'll likely be your last game with me
 
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Graeme SSSSS
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I'm slightly confused by the idea of "forcing" a layoff...I though the accepting of a bet in your casino is entirely optional? So consequently, how is it possible to force a layoff? If the casino owner can't/doesn't want to cover the potential losses, he can refuse to accept it. Although I now realise this is actually an accidental house rule!

However the rules are pretty clear that in the event of a 2/12, the casino owner can only pay what they have. If someone gambles $5m and the casino owner has $8m, he would lose $5m in the event of a gambler winning and $8m in the event of him hitting doubles. The $2m difference is lost.

The rules are also pretty clear in saying that you are not allowed to bet more than the casino owner has. These two rules together *do* eliminate the possibility of "forcing" a layoff.
 
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Donald Dennis
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88GJS88 wrote:
I'm slightly confused by the idea of "forcing" a layoff...I though the accepting of a bet in your casino is entirely optional? So consequently, how is it possible to force a layoff? If the casino owner can't/doesn't want to cover the potential losses, he can refuse to accept it. Although I now realise this is actually an accidental house rule!

However the rules are pretty clear that in the event of a 2/12, the casino owner can only pay what they have. If someone gambles $5m and the casino owner has $8m, he would lose $5m in the event of a gambler winning and $8m in the event of him hitting doubles. The $2m difference is lost.

The rules are also pretty clear in saying that you are not allowed to bet more than the casino owner has. These two rules together *do* eliminate the possibility of "forcing" a layoff.


I don't remember the original rules I saw saying "can't bet more than the casino has". If that's the case it answers the question, but I thought the only betting restriction was not betting more than $5 per tile in the casino, and what the player making the bet has on hand.

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Graeme SSSSS
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Walsfeo wrote:
88GJS88 wrote:
I'm slightly confused by the idea of "forcing" a layoff...I though the accepting of a bet in your casino is entirely optional? So consequently, how is it possible to force a layoff? If the casino owner can't/doesn't want to cover the potential losses, he can refuse to accept it. Although I now realise this is actually an accidental house rule!

However the rules are pretty clear that in the event of a 2/12, the casino owner can only pay what they have. If someone gambles $5m and the casino owner has $8m, he would lose $5m in the event of a gambler winning and $8m in the event of him hitting doubles. The $2m difference is lost.

The rules are also pretty clear in saying that you are not allowed to bet more than the casino owner has. These two rules together *do* eliminate the possibility of "forcing" a layoff.


I don't remember the original rules I saw saying "can't bet more than the casino has". If that's the case it answers the question, but I thought the only betting restriction was not betting more than $5 per tile in the casino, and what the player making the bet has on hand.


I think this might be an issue with editions then. I don't have the physical game to hand here, but have consulted online rules here http://mayfairgames.com/mfg-shop3/rules/MFG4120-Rules-V1_0.p... which don't prohibit betting more than the casino can cover. But the rules that came with my version of the game also state that the "laying off" concept is an optional addition to the rules, so I'm sure I've read a slightly different version...
 
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Steve Duff
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88GJS88 wrote:
The rules are also pretty clear in saying that you are not allowed to bet more than the casino owner has.


I think you misread the rules. They say you can't bet more money than you have.

You can bet more than the casino owner has, because they also state quite clearly what happens when you do - "if the boss does not have enough money to fully pay off, you only get the money he does have".

The printed rules I have match your rules link.
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