Ender Wiggins
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If having your BGG photos used on another website without permission or attribution is of any concern to you, see this thread:

Massive illegal reproducing of BGG's database and photos (Offender: boardgamesource.com)

The site www.boardgamesource.com has reproduced thousands of images directly from boardgamegeek. I've written to their contact email address (boardgamesource@gmail.com) about some of my images, and other photographers might want to check if this affects any of their photos.
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Oh no. Call the whambulance.
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Ross W
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and now the site is down.

Quote:
With regret, boardgamesource.com is no longer available.

This site was built using content made available by boardgamegeek.com via a public API which appeared to give permission to do so.

The owner of boardgamegeek.com has now stated that he intends to change the terms of usage for the API to specifically exclude this site.

Thank you for the many kind messages I've received about this site today as a result of the discussion on BGG forums. I'm sorry that you're no longer able to use it.

You can still contact me via boardgamesource at gmail dot com.
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Bill Norton
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So BGG users were upset that their intellectual property was being used in a way they didn't authorize.

But this is the same site that is upset with Games Workshop for making people remove Games Workshop intellectual property?

Yeah, I know there are differences but still struck me as funny.

Bill
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It is more complex then the GW issue, and of 'course all IP infringments are complex. How many of the people that are active in this forum was upset at the GW issue, you are saying all people where which might not be true.

There is also quite a big difference by mechanical stealth of content and somebodys creating something based off an IP.

I am not versed enough in the GW issues to know (I hardly noticed it, and acctually not care that much. My only GW related photos are still on this site).
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Simon
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there are plenty of boardgamer blogs on the internet that may use an image from BGG from time to time. My understanding is that BGG does have an issue with this (though its good form to ask the original image poster for permission). This site used more than just a couple of images. Its a question of the wider community using something or whole scale copying of material. GW has shown that they do not distinguish between the two.
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Single photos might be avalible as we can set Creative Commons licenses of updates (which I personally do with attribution etc demanded)
 
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My photos that I've submitted to BGG have been used on many other websites. They were taken from BGG and used without my permission. However, I don't mind at all in most cases because they are usually photos of one of my published games like Quarantine, and they are helping to promote the games. So in these cases, I don't mind that my copyrights are being violated. However, any of my other photography being used (especially for commercial gain) will receive a cease and desist letter.
 
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manchuwok wrote:
My photos that I've submitted to BGG have been used on many other websites. They were taken from BGG and used without my permission. However, I don't mind at all in most cases because they are usually photos of one of my published games like Quarantine, and they are helping to promote the games. So in these cases, I don't mind that my copyrights are being violated. However, any of my other photography being used (especially for commercial gain) will receive a cease and desist letter.


For the pictures of your published game you want to promote, why not use a Creative Commons Share Alike Non-Derative Non-Comercial or some license like that. It might even make cease-and-desist letters easier to send out.
 
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Bryan Daley
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You guys seriously think you have a right to complain about someone re-using photos you uploaded to BGG? Have you looked at the terms and conditions of the website?

By uploading User Submissions to Geekdo, you hereby grant Geekdo a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, perpetual, sublicenseable, and transferable license to use, reproduce, distribute, adapt, modify, prepare derivative works of, display, and perform the User Submissions in connection with the Website, website extensions, and the business of Geekdo and its successors and affiliates, including without limitation for promoting the Website in any media formats and through any media channels.

And if you are going to argue that BGG didn't do the distribution:

By uploading User Submissions to Geekdo, you hereby grant each user of the Website a non-exclusive license to access your User Submissions through the Website, and to use, reproduce, distribute, display, and perform such User Submissions as permitted through the functionality of the Website and under these Terms of Service.

Sorry guys, but if you want control of your images, don't put them on a public wiki site (which is what BGG essentially is).
 
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daleygamer wrote:
...as permitted through the functionality of the Website...


Missed the key phrase in there.
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Bryan Daley
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manchuwok wrote:
daleygamer wrote:
...as permitted through the functionality of the Website...


Missed the key phrase in there.


Actually I did not. I copied it over. Last time I checked, save to file was allowed by the website...

In addition, BGG does not have that qualifier with regard to their license.
 
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The terms of service do not allow users of the site to download pictures and thus inherit rights to use those photos in any manner, irregardless of the copyright status of those pictures. That is illegal in all jurisdictions. The piece of the terms of service that I drew attention to indicates that other users may use those images as they wish on the BGG site only.

However, as mentioned, I only put photos on BGG that I expect to be used, even without my permission.
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manchuwok wrote:
The terms of service do not allow users of the site to download pictures and thus inherit rights to use those photos in any manner, irregardless of the copyright status of those pictures. That is illegal in all jurisdictions.


I think this could be slightly confusing. It is definitely not illegal anywhere to use terms of service to permit people to make use of copyrighted material in many different ways.

However, if what you are trying to say is that terms of service cannot destroy a copyright, you are completely correct. Ultimately what ends up happening is that nonexclusive transferable license to your copyrighted material is transferred to other people.

manchuwok wrote:
However, as mentioned, I only put photos on BGG that I expect to be used, even without my permission.


Regardless, I think this is the right attitude to take. The actually wording of the terms of service really doesn't even matter to an individual user, because most people do not even read them. If you are uploading material to a public wiki type website, social media website, or forum, you should have very minimal expectations regarding retaining control over your copyrights.
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Dennis
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daleygamer wrote:
You guys seriously think you have a right to complain about someone re-using photos you uploaded to BGG? Have you looked at the terms and conditions of the website?

By uploading User Submissions to Geekdo, you hereby grant Geekdo a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, perpetual, sublicenseable, and transferable license to use, reproduce, distribute, adapt, modify, prepare derivative works of, display, and perform the User Submissions in connection with the Website, website extensions, and the business of Geekdo and its successors and affiliates, including without limitation for promoting the Website in any media formats and through any media channels.

And if you are going to argue that BGG didn't do the distribution:

By uploading User Submissions to Geekdo, you hereby grant each user of the Website a non-exclusive license to access your User Submissions through the Website, and to use, reproduce, distribute, display, and perform such User Submissions as permitted through the functionality of the Website and under these Terms of Service.

Sorry guys, but if you want control of your images, don't put them on a public wiki site (which is what BGG essentially is).

http://boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/Image_submissions

"Image Copyrights:

By submitting an image to BoardGameGeek, you are granting permission for it to be shown on the site, but you retain all other rights; if someone wants to use your picture elsewhere, they must obtain your permission."
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daleygamer wrote:
manchuwok wrote:
The terms of service do not allow users of the site to download pictures and thus inherit rights to use those photos in any manner, irregardless of the copyright status of those pictures. That is illegal in all jurisdictions.


I think this could be slightly confusing. It is definitely not illegal anywhere to use terms of service to permit people to make use of copyrighted material in many different ways.


Err yes it is, Copyright might be seen as untransferable in Sweden to start with. (It is questionable if CC licenses are compatable with Swedish law). The law is not completly clear on this and INAL but it is quite possible that even according to the above stated license, demand economic compensation or cease & desist from somebody that illegally use your photos.

And as said the ToS do not give a general download license to the site but to transfer the content between different GeekDo domains and possibly to use it in advertiseing, it is quiet clear that it would be the ToS.
 
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clockworkd wrote:
daleygamer wrote:
You guys seriously think you have a right to complain about someone re-using photos you uploaded to BGG? Have you looked at the terms and conditions of the website?

By uploading User Submissions to Geekdo, you hereby grant Geekdo a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, perpetual, sublicenseable, and transferable license to use, reproduce, distribute, adapt, modify, prepare derivative works of, display, and perform the User Submissions in connection with the Website, website extensions, and the business of Geekdo and its successors and affiliates, including without limitation for promoting the Website in any media formats and through any media channels.

And if you are going to argue that BGG didn't do the distribution:

By uploading User Submissions to Geekdo, you hereby grant each user of the Website a non-exclusive license to access your User Submissions through the Website, and to use, reproduce, distribute, display, and perform such User Submissions as permitted through the functionality of the Website and under these Terms of Service.

Sorry guys, but if you want control of your images, don't put them on a public wiki site (which is what BGG essentially is).

http://boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/Image_submissions

"Image Copyrights:

By submitting an image to BoardGameGeek, you are granting permission for it to be shown on the site, but you retain all other rights; if someone wants to use your picture elsewhere, they must obtain your permission."


Hrmm I would like clearification from BGG admins on this issue as I can see the ToS and Image Submission guidelines can be seen as be oppossed to each other.
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Bryan Daley
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virre wrote:

Err yes it is, Copyright might be seen as untransferable in Sweden to start with. (It is questionable if CC licenses are compatable with Swedish law). The law is not completly clear on this and INAL but it is quite possible that even according to the above stated license, demand economic compensation or cease & desist from somebody that illegally use your photos.


Honestly not debating you, because all of this is up for interpretation, and whether or not the clause is valid, etc., but FYI - under the ToS you are knowingly sending your data to the United States, and Texas law applies:

"A. The laws of the State of Texas govern all matters arising out of or relating to these Terms of Service, without giving effect to conflicts of law principles thereof.

B. You submit to the exclusive jurisdiction of the state and federal courts of the State of Texas for resolving any claim or dispute arising out of or relating to these Terms of Service.

C. You agree that: (i) the Website shall be deemed solely based in the State of Texas; and (ii) the Website shall be deemed a passive website that does not give rise to personal jurisdiction over Geekdo, either specific or general, in jurisdictions other than Texas."
 
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daleygamer wrote:
virre wrote:

Err yes it is, Copyright might be seen as untransferable in Sweden to start with. (It is questionable if CC licenses are compatable with Swedish law). The law is not completly clear on this and INAL but it is quite possible that even according to the above stated license, demand economic compensation or cease & desist from somebody that illegally use your photos.


Honestly not debating you, because all of this is up for interpretation, and whether or not the clause is valid, etc., but FYI - under the ToS you are knowingly sending your data to the United States, and Texas law applies


I have discussed such laws with Lawyers before, it is debatable if those are in accordance with International trade agreements etc. I.e all this is up for interpretation.

I did geekmail Aldie about this thread, because I would really like clearification of 1) the meaning of the ToS in regards to the photos and 2) If changes to clearifiy this is planned. (Because it is an issue)
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Brian
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From my limited understanding, you aren't transferring copyright. You are licensing Geekdo etc. to use your material. You still control the copyright. They are just allowed to use it.

Regarding the:
By uploading User Submissions to Geekdo, you hereby grant each user of the Website a non-exclusive license to access your User Submissions through the Website, and to use, reproduce, distribute, display, and perform such User Submissions as permitted through the functionality of the Website and under these Terms of Service.

That's just them stating the obvious. They are listing things which likely fall under fair use. When I read this thread, my browser requests the information. It's then copied into memory. It may also be cached on disk. It goes to my graphics card where the images are then copied into the page buffer. It's then displayed on my monitor. These instances of copying are all necessary for the functionality of the website. I'm not sure why 'distribute' is listed. I'm guessing depending on your local network, the information may be cached by a proxy server, and that then distributes it to you. The key point is that this is done for the functionality of the website. They are transient copies which are needed for things to work.

This clause isn't a carte blanche. Mass downloading and re-hosting is not needed for the functionality of the website and it is not fair use.

Article about copying programs into memory. Similar to caching pages.
http://digital-law-online.info/lpdi1.0/treatise20.html

Article about fair use.
http://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/fair-use/four-factors/
 
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Quote:
By uploading User Submissions to Geekdo, you hereby grant each user of the Website a non-exclusive license to access your User Submissions through the Website, and to use, reproduce, distribute, display, and perform such User Submissions as permitted through the functionality of the Website and under these Terms of Service.

This just lets other people use your user submissions within BGG.

For example, it licenses me to reproduce and use Dennis' lovely photo of Pandemic in a Geeklist, or in this post, as I've done below.

It certainly doesn't license me to reproduce that photo outside of BGG. If I want to use that photo on another website or blog, I must ask for permission.

 
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Brian
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EndersGame wrote:
For example, it licenses me to reproduce and use Dennis' lovely photo of Pandemic in a Geeklist, or in this post, as I've done below.

It certainly doesn't license me to reproduce that photo outside of BGG. If I want to use that photo on another website or blog, I must ask for permission.


You didn't reproduce it. You linked to it. BGG is still hosting the image.

Just like I can link to this Captain America picture from annihil.us, a Marvel run site.


If you downloaded it. Uploaded it to imgur or another site like that, and then only used for a post on BGG, that could be considered infringement.
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Brian
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On a side note, by quoting your comment, I did reproduce the text which you wrote.
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