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Subject: game on irregular warfare in WW2? rss

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Geoff C
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Is there such a beast? I've been reading and greatly enjoying http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/books/product/9780471404194-it...
and a global or atleast ETO based game on irregular warfare would be fascinating.
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Enrico Viglino
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Not on the whole war, but Tito is primarily concerned
with irregular warfare.
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Andrew N
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Edelweiss looks at partisans and anti-partisan activity (on an operational scale) as part of the Caucasus campaign.
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Helmut Hohberger
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Then there's Combat Commander: Resistance!.

EDIT: Sorry, missed that you said global or ETO. This here is clearly tactical.
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Pete Belli
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This could be an interesting design challenge.

The game should start when the Axis powers are at the peak of their conquests. The various Allied powers would play against the game system. Players representing Britain, the USA, France, and the USSR would each have separate goals while operating under the umbrella of the larger war effort... and the major military campaigns would be "factored in" using a deck of event cards.

Allied commanders would compete for control of the various irregular forces fighting the Axis occupation forces while launching Special Ops missions. Historical examples would be the kind of struggle-within-a-struggle which took place in France or Yugoslavia between the Communist resistance fighters and the other groups opposing the Germans. In places like China the USSR would have a separate agenda while France would have to play the game with one eye on the post-war situation in North Africa and Indochina.

Fascinating.
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Eric Walters
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There's a few:

The Twilight War -- game on the French resistance. OOP but somewhat available on the secondary market.

Tito -- game on the Uugoslavian resistance. OOP but easily available on the secondary market.

Partizan -- another game on the Yugoslavian resistance

Warsaw Rising: Revolt of the Polish Underground, 1944 -- plays more like a conventional warfare game; not surprising given the circumstances.

If this is just too limiting, there is always

War of Resistance -- Yes, it's China and not global/ETO, but the scenarios with Mao's communist partisan army are worthwhile (e.g., the "Hundred Regiment Offensive"0. Been some kibitzing on OOB accuracy in this game, despite the detail, from Asian war-game designers/researchers.

And has already been pointed out, there's a few tactical games on the subject.

Why aren't there more titles? Partisan warfare is covered somewhat abstractly in ETO strategic games and in some operational ones. But the action is clearly the regular/conventional war aspects. Not sure there's enough people purely interested in the topic for a stand alone game on it.
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Paul Aceto
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This upcoming ATO Annual might be of interest: Set Europe Ablaze: The Resistance War 1939-1945

http://www.atomagazine.com/Details.cfm?ProdID=138&category=6

From the ATO page:

Set Europe Ablaze captures the spirit and complex choices involved in Occupied Western Europe. Award-winning designer John Prados, who last gave us Beyond Waterloo, again focuses on action in France, Belgium, and the Netherlands. Prados brings us a card-driven game pitting the Occupying Axis forces against the combination of Allied intelligence efforts and brave local citizens, fighting the shadow war that made "the Maquis" a name to remember proudly.

Unlike many board strategy games, the focus is not on movement and combat by military units but on political-economic strategy. The Axis player wants to extract as much raw materials and finished goods as possible, to aid the war effort, and the Allied player seeks to avert this. Allied tactics include sabotage, interdiction, and intelligence gathering.

Axis responses include partisan sweeps, counterintelligence operations, and labor pool mobilization to repair damage. Turns abstractly represent about six months each, with rounds within each turn varying according to cards played. While there is no "combat" in a literal sense, there are competitions for resolving actions that have both players rolling dice. Excitement levels will be high, as players wonder what the next card will bring.

Allies will take advantage of infiltration and special units (SAS, Jedburgh, OSS) while the Axis will use Security forces, the Abwehr, Gestapo, and even Vichy police. "Barbie" competes with "Passy" and "Giskes" versus "Jean Moulin." There is even Stalag XVII.

Set Europe Ablaze is the 2014 Annual, with an extra large magazine and a complete game, using 280 full-color, die-cut markers. (Plus, every Annual has some extra goodies inside!) Order Set Europe Ablaze when you start or renew your subscription for a substantial discoun


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Zouave wrote:
This upcoming ATO Annual might be of interest: Set Europe Ablaze: The Resistance War 1939-1945
Axis responses include partisan sweeps, counterintelligence operations, and labor pool mobilization to repair damage.


While I like the basic idea, I'm a bit bothered by the choice of words here. I know it's just a marketing blurb, but I hope the final product calls things as they are (forced labour, terror tactics).
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B Schneider
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I am definitely ordering the ATO annual, sounds great, however, I suspect it wont be out until next year.
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Jur dj
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Czas Honoru: Operacja Most III aka Days of Honour on the Polish resistance attempt to capture info on V2s before the Germans can collect the pieces. Two player

The Outcast Heroes this is just after WWII as Polish resistance fighters take on the Russian occupation. A coop with traitors

Both tragic games, but that's part and parcel for Polish history
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Michael Sommers
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ericmwalters wrote:
Partisan warfare is covered somewhat abstractly in ETO strategic games and in some operational ones. But the action is clearly the regular/conventional war aspects. Not sure there's enough people purely interested in the topic for a stand alone game on it.

War in the East (First Edition) had partisan units on the map that the Germans had to deal with.
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Geoff C
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Thanks for the input all! Twilight War or Set Europe Ablaze is sort of what Im looking for, although I had really hoped that someone had done a modern, abstract version much like the COIN series but on a grander (fortress europa) scale.

Byrne, will play SEA if you get it! A COIN game maybe in our future too....I am coming to realize that multiplayer modern-design conflict games is where my sweetspot really is, (although my historical/thematic interest isn't modern).

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Geoff C
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pete belli wrote:
This could be an interesting design challenge.

The game should start when the Axis powers are at the peak of their conquests. The various Allied powers would play against the game system. Players representing Britain, the USA, France, and the USSR would each have separate goals while operating under the umbrella of the larger war effort... and the major military campaigns would be "factored in" using a deck of event cards.

Allied commanders would compete for control of the various irregular forces fighting the Axis occupation forces while launching Special Ops missions. Historical examples would be the kind of struggle-within-a-struggle which took place in France or Yugoslavia between the Communist resistance fighters and the other groups opposing the Germans. In places like China the USSR would have a separate agenda while France would have to play the game with one eye on the post-war situation in North Africa and Indochina.

Fascinating.


Exactly! Although I am leaning towards ETO right now. I am putting some ideas to text file, but I am in no way an accomplished designer.

But if no one else does it....who knows.
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Neal Durando
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I'm still scratching out research toward an operational treatment of IW in the Auvergne, 1942-44. It is a _very_ slippery fish, as there are so many levels of conflict going on in the same spot but all along different lines of operation.
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Brian Train
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Eric pointed out that there are relatively few gamers who are interested enough in the subject for there to be a successful stand-alone game on it, so it stands to economic reason that there would be even fewer gamer-designers willing to go to the trouble.
However, this is not an economic hobby to be involved in, on any side of the equation, so we do have a number of games that touch on the subject.
I am awaiting John Prados' work; I saw a prototype in 2012 at the annual Connections conference and it looked good - John Prados also did Warsaw Uprising.

But to the question of why there are few gamers interested in the topic - I think it is because of the nature of the topic itself.
Resistance warfare highlights the grimy, icky, morally ambiguous side of World War Two, and to compound this guerrillas have always been treated in the histories as useful auxiliaries to the great (professional) standing armies, but never the authors of their own liberation.
(The sole exception here would be Yugoslavia, but Western histories always seem to take the tack that they couldn't have done it without Evelyn Waugh and the Balkan Air Force, and a last-minute assist from the Red Army.)
Relatively few gamers want to dwell on the various ambushes, massacres, atrocities, murders of the innocent, reprisal killings, ethnic cleansings and treasons that went on in World War Two.
Why focus on that, when you can play Panzer commander or Monty planning to bounce the Rhine?
So that's why in the Europa series of games partisan brigades show up as occasional inconvenient roadblocks and railway cutters, and the Sicherheitsdienst regiments show up as little 1-8 units you throw into a stack at the last minute to give it another defence factor.

Pretty short shrift indeed, and another example of the historical myopia that afflicts the hobby.

Brian
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B Schneider
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Talonz wrote:
Thanks for the input all! Twilight War or Set Europe Ablaze is sort of what Im looking for, although I had really hoped that someone had done a modern, abstract version much like the COIN series but on a grander (fortress europa) scale.

Byrne, will play SEA if you get it! A COIN game maybe in our future too....I am coming to realize that multiplayer modern-design conflict games is where my sweetspot really is, (although my historical/thematic interest isn't modern).



Yeah, buddy! I am planning on taking pretty much all of July off for leave, not sure what your schedule is, but I am sure we'll be able to work something out...
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Geoff C
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I am wondering who the players are in this game....UK, USA....who else? The Axis might be better left as an automatic enemy given some of the comments above. Im not sure there was a whole lot of Russian black ops going on, although I know they had an intelligence agency (KDH?) of some sort.

A partisan/resistance player? For what I have in mind (allocation of resources to recruiting and training black ops, intelligence gathering, in preparation for various random mission cards and major events) I can't see a player focuses on purely resistance working, unless there was enough material to give them their own unique mission deck I suppose.

I was thinking players would move resources to resistance areas to support them in response to missions, but if there are only 2 players...dang. Bit of a wall here.
 
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J.L. Robert
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I'm still waiting for a game covering Mountbatten's campaign in Burma.
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James Brown
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J.L.Robert wrote:
I'm still waiting for a game covering Mountbatten's campaign in Burma.


The CBI Theater was last to get any supplies or resources so I guess it should get less notice from any game makers.
 
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