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Subject: Questions I Still Have After Scouring Forums rss

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Tom Shuman
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I still have a lot of rule questions with this game even after trying to read through the rules, official FAQ, and The Geek forums. I'd love to hear people's opinions but I obviously would most appreciate references to designer weigh-ins or actual weigh-ins from people who were involved in design/development. It's possible I just missed the answers in the rules so just bear with me. I'll list them here in no particular order:

1. Can an agent move adjacent to an alien during movement without becoming engaged? From what I understand, only starting or ending movement adjacent to an alien makes you engaged.

2. Can the GD209 robot (I think that's the name, the biotech's skill) become engaged? I would assume not because how would it become disengaged (it does not have its own action)?

3. I think I saw something that aliens can treat windows like doors. Do they walk through as though it were an unblocked side? Is it the same with signals?

4. It seems like signals are checked (as to whether they flip) as they move each hex since LOS reveals them immediately. However, I remember reading somewhere that reaction shots are only determined based on range/LOS to the alien when it reaches the destination of its movement. This seems to me like a strange distinction to make. Is that correct?

5. Do you "unlock" weapons for all agents with the reinforcement/armory rules or only put in weapons that would benefit the agents into the random pool to draw from? The way I've been playing is that you draw from a pool of all potential weapons (for all agents) which you could use in a later mission if you bring that agent. Is that correct?

6. When does the mission end? If you reach the successful condition without reaching x strategy phase, is it over?

7. What is the range on the xeno-grey's leadership (I don't have it in front of me for the name, the one that teleports in or activates other aliens) ability? It says something about 1 area. Does that mean up to one area away or only things within the same area as the xeno-grey?

8. "Reaction" advanced tactics (like the one that rolls extra 2 def dice) can be used on an alien turn. Is it only once per turn though? Once per round?

9. How in the world does the Hulk's charge (I think that's its name) skill work? So many questions. Do you move one hex into only empty spaces? Does it move back aliens after you have moved? If the move is from one area to another, do the aliens in the old area or new area move?

10. In mission 5, do the landmines remove when they explode or do they persist?


That is all for now. Thanks for your time and patience.
 
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Karl
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#1 From the rules as written he does not become engaged.

#2 not sure.

#3 yes to both, aliens and signals

#4 no. Signals also move area by area. They are revealed as soon as LOS is achieved and their movement ends. Yes, this is different to the guard rule

#5 Depends. In Campaign you put in all potential weapons. In single mission mode you only use the usable weapons.

#6 When the missions says so or if the victory conditions say so. In #1 it ends as soon as all 4 teleporters are destroyed or after turn 11. In mission #2 it always goes for full rounds.

#7 Its always up to, but I don#t have the card here either

#8 Once. Tactics are all only used once unless a card (all special events) asks you to refresh them

#9 not sure (would need exact text)

#10 they are removed.
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Joey madscientist
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1. Yes, the developers have said you can run by (but not through) an alien on your move phase without being engaged. Stopping adjacent to them is different though.

2. I don't believe that it can be engaged, but I could be wrong.

3. Yes and yes.

4. Not sure of the question.

5. you draw from all weapons during reinforcements, not just those beneficial to the agents in play.

6. Depends on the mission, some go all the way, some stop at a certain point.

7. You mean xeno-alpha. 2 aliens up to one area away move with and end up in the same area as the xeno-alpha.

8. tactics can only be used once per mission unless something special happens. (just found this out myself)

9. you can use this to disengage, so yes you can effectively move in to a hex that has an alien in it, effectively pushing them back an area. This only moves aliens at 0 range, so only the adjacent aliens.

10. landmines explode and go away.
 
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Tom Shuman
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Thanks for the responses. Seems like y'all are mostly in agreement. I did mean xeno-grey. Their activation when they have no LOS. Is it their area and 1 area away or only things within the same area? What I meant with the hulk's skill was: do you check the aliens at 0 range before or after he moves? Can he move at somebody (invade their hex) to push them out? What is the order of movement and pushing?

Other questions I thought of:
1. Is Sally (the turret) affected by fog?

2. The word "targeted" on the infiltrator's character card is confusing. Does that mean she is not looked at to trigger alien AI (ignore her) or just that she cannot be shot at when at a certain range?

 
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Joey madscientist
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xeno-grey - within 1 area. so their area and anything 1 away.

hulk - since it is used to disengage it would be aliens that are at 0 before hulk uses the skill.

1. yes

2. she has stealth ability so she cannot be shot at or moved to (unless it is a spine critter, they can see through her stealth ability.)
 
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JoeyTheMadScientist wrote:
xeno-grey - within 1 area. so their area and anything 1 away.

hulk - since it is used to disengage it would be aliens that are at 0 before hulk uses the skill.

1. yes

2. she has stealth ability so she cannot be shot at or moved to (unless it is a spine critter, they can see through her stealth ability.)


For the Hulk's charge, the op's question isn't when it is determined to be activated, but rather what happens when it does activate.

For the infiltrator, what Stealth does is makes it so that she is ignored when determining LOS for any effects. However, worth noting, the {+} AI triggers don't require LOS, so if that particular activation said to "move 1 hex towards the closest agent", then the alien could still be moving towards the Infiltrator. It doesn' matter if its a Spine Critter or not.
 
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Joey madscientist
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ah crap, yeah forgot about the {+} rule with stealth.
 
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Tom Shuman
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Home now so I can actually read the Hulk Charge skill. It reads "Move 1 Hex. Aliens at {0} are moved back to an adjacent area. (Can be used to disengage)." That clears up some things I asked but begs other questions. The way it's worded, the moving of the alien(s) is not optional (nor is the movement). Could you not move and push the aliens back? Could you move and not push the aliens back?

I would assume the ability means that if you use the ability to land next to any aliens, you move those rather than move aliens that you start adjacent to before using the 1 movement point. Is that right (you move aliens you land near rather than ones you started near)?

Lastly, can you use the skill if that one weather effect is up that does not allow disengagement? Namely, does "cannot" take precedence in this game over "can" like in lots of others?
 
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Joey madscientist
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i've always taken it as this: if i were in a fight, or starting one, i wouldn't move in to my opponent's space to push him. i would run next to him and then push him, but stay in my spot. maybe i have it wrong though, that's just the way i have interpreted it.
 
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sergeant shu wrote:
Home now so I can actually read the Hulk Charge skill. It reads "Move 1 Hex. Aliens at {0} are moved back to an adjacent area. (Can be used to disengage)." That clears up some things I asked but begs other questions. The way it's worded, the moving of the alien(s) is not optional (nor is the movement). Could you not move and push the aliens back? Could you move and not push the aliens back?

I would assume the ability means that if you use the ability to land next to any aliens, you move those rather than move aliens that you start adjacent to before using the 1 movement point. Is that right (you move aliens you land near rather than ones you started near)?

Lastly, can you use the skill if that one weather effect is up that does not allow disengagement? Namely, does "cannot" take precedence in this game over "can" like in lots of others?


Thus far, everything I've encountered in this game that have multiple effects are always handled sequentially as they appear in the text. The Alpha's move then drag 2 other aliens along with them. You declare the attack, then discard 1 ammo (before rolling) to make the Marine's attack an area attack. The Hulk rolls his attack then can discard additional ammo tokens to add more hit results to the roll. The skill says to move 1 hex then push away aliens at range zero. Unless we are told different that's how I read it and that's how I am playing it.
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Joey madscientist
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good point hero, now i am curious as to what the dev intended. i had a completely different set of logic going in to that skill, but i have been wrong on tons of stuff with this game so, color me curious :-)
 
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Skaak
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sergeant shu wrote:
Home now so I can actually read the Hulk Charge skill. It reads "Move 1 Hex. Aliens at {0} are moved back to an adjacent area. (Can be used to disengage)." That clears up some things I asked but begs other questions. The way it's worded, the moving of the alien(s) is not optional (nor is the movement). Could you not move and push the aliens back? Could you move and not push the aliens back?


Since none of the wording is stated as optional, you have to do everything in order. In this case, it means you activate charge, then move Hulk 1 hex, then push move any aliens he is adjacent to--in the new hex, not the old one--one area away. If you don't want the aliens to be moved, you'll have to find some other method of repositioning the Hulk.

sergeant shu wrote:
I would assume the ability means that if you use the ability to land next to any aliens, you move those rather than move aliens that you start adjacent to before using the 1 movement point. Is that right (you move aliens you land near rather than ones you started near)?


Correct.

sergeant shu wrote:
Lastly, can you use the skill if that one weather effect is up that does not allow disengagement? Namely, does "cannot" take precedence in this game over "can" like in lots of others?


I don't think the designers have weighed in on this yet. My gut feeling is that you would still be able to use Charge (because disengaging is a specific action that requires a die roll, whereas Charge is a movement action that explicitly voids the normal disengagement rules).
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Skaak wrote:
sergeant shu wrote:
Lastly, can you use the skill if that one weather effect is up that does not allow disengagement? Namely, does "cannot" take precedence in this game over "can" like in lots of others?


I don't think the designers have weighed in on this yet. My gut feeling is that you would still be able to use Charge (because disengaging is a specific action that requires a die roll, whereas Charge is a movement action that explicitly voids the normal disengagement rules).


To me, it's not a question of whether the skill can be used, but what are the actual effects if it is used. I don't see anything in the rules to disallow me from giving my agent an action that has no game effect. Giving the Hulk an action to use Charge is legal unless something explicitly prohibits the use of Charge. The question in my mind is whether the movement of Charge is exclusive of any other effects/conditions in the game or if that particular event is intended to only effect the speed value of the agent. If it is the latter, then it could also mean that an agent that is Bleeding would still be able to move as well.
 
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Tom Shuman
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As the OP, I feel within my rights to keep this confusion train rolling. I played mission 5 last night. We used the Hulk's charge a bunch and we used it sequentially as written. The Hulk moved one space (whether he started next to an alien or not we considered irrelevant since it can be used to disengage). Once he moved one hex, he could push any aliens he landed adjacent to into neighboring areas (of his choice). Once the weather effect that forbids disengagement was out, he could still use the skill but not to disengage (weather says disengagement is prohibited, not evading, so both should be prohibited in our minds). We lived by camping out inside and making s'mores (read: healing like crazy with the biotech) while my robot went out and drew their fire (poor lad, never saw it coming). I think we played it right.

New questions:

1. Can GD-209 use Sally (the turret)? I assume not since it says you have to use "combat" while GD-209's page says he can move and "fight." Not the same. That would have been hilarious though.

2. When an alien AI says closest, are you counting by area or by hex? I take it literally and look at which agent is physically closest first without taking damage into account. If both are tied, I look at damage/remaining life.

3. Can the marine use guard when bleeding? It says he can't use devices/skills, but that is an ability. However, since we are playing w/ human POV, how would you know what direction he is facing when he is knocked down? Can you disengage while bleeding?

4. Is there any way to swap out tactics or skills once you've acquired them? As in, when you unlock a tactic, are you unlocking the ability to choose a basic (and maybe advanced) tactic for each mission, picking each time? Or are you picking that specific tactic 'til death do you part? Seems like you need an awful lot of foresight to grab the alien knowledge skill ahead of time to use with alien weapons much later.


Good talk, Russ. Good talk.
 
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sergeant shu wrote:
1. Can GD-209 use Sally (the turret)? I assume not since it says you have to use "combat" while GD-209's page says he can move and "fight." Not the same. That would have been hilarious though.

2. When an alien AI says closest, are you counting by area or by hex? I take it literally and look at which agent is physically closest first without taking damage into account. If both are tied, I look at damage/remaining life.

3. Can the marine use guard when bleeding? It says he can't use devices/skills, but that is an ability. However, since we are playing w/ human POV, how would you know what direction he is facing when he is knocked down? Can you disengage while bleeding?

4. Is there any way to swap out tactics or skills once you've acquired them? As in, when you unlock a tactic, are you unlocking the ability to choose a basic (and maybe advanced) tactic for each mission, picking each time? Or are you picking that specific tactic 'til death do you part? Seems like you need an awful lot of foresight to grab the alien knowledge skill ahead of time to use with alien weapons much later.


Good talk, Russ. Good talk.


1. I have no idea. I'd need to reread the section on the GD209 and read the mission briefing (as I haven't gotten that far yet).

2. Range is always measured by area. The only tricky thing is if you are in the same area as the target, but not adjacent, you are still at range 1. And if you are adjacent, but in different area's you are still at range 0. There is a really good illustration of these in the rulebook. I forget what page though.

3. Interesting question. Since it is a passive and doesn't require an action to activate, nor are you giving the marine a combat, I would say that Guard would still work. It is only suggested that you knock down the figure to mark it as bleeding. It is not a rule. And because your combat is forfeited, I would say that you can't spend your combat (and movement) to attempt a disengage.

4. I believe that they stay the same for the duration of the campaign. I would prefer it this way (if I am wrong). You don't really need Alien Knowledge until you are almost ready to draw from the alien weapon pile. So you should be able to make a fairly accurate guess as to when you would need the Alien Knowledge skill. Then again, in mission 3, I got the Dreadgun, but it was so late in the game that I only had 1 attack with it anyways.
 
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Skaak
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sergeant shu wrote:
2. When an alien AI says closest, are you counting by area or by hex?


Distance from aliens is always measured in areas.

sergeant shu wrote:
3. Can the marine use guard when bleeding? It says he can't use devices/skills, but that is an ability.


I don't think this has been officially ruled on anywhere, but my gut feeling is that he cannot use guard since it's effectively a combat action and bleeding agents are prohibited from combat.

Then again, it's kind of a gray area since the rules don't explicitly exclude actions or items that result in attacking aliens.

sergeant shu wrote:
4. Is there any way to swap out tactics or skills once you've acquired them?


Not if you are playing campaign mode (although I think there was a Kickstarter-specific extra device that allows you to do this). In campaign mode, the specific tactics and skills that you choose for your agents are attached to those agents until they die.

I think Alien Knowledge is mostly intended to be picked as the agent's second skill (final level up reward); or, as you mentioned, with extreme foresight.
 
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Tom Shuman
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To further clarify my second question. I am aware you measure range by area. To me though, if two agents are equidistant by area and the AI tells me to attack or go to the agent who is closest, I will go to/attack the one that is closest by hexes.
 
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There is a Device {which is a kickstarter promo item} which lets you respec your character, swap skills and so on.
 
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Quote:
To further clarify my second question. I am aware you measure range by area. To me though, if two agents are equidistant by area and the AI tells me to attack or go to the agent who is closest, I will go to/attack the one that is closest by hexes.



I borrowed this from Mikeg99's Galaxy Defenders Quick Reference v1.1:

Quote:
- If more than 1 agent is eligible to be attacked, attack agent with more
wounds. If tie, alien attacks agent with fewest remaining hit points
 
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Skaak
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sergeant shu wrote:
To further clarify my second question. I am aware you measure range by area. To me though, if two agents are equidistant by area and the AI tells me to attack or go to the agent who is closest, I will go to/attack the one that is closest by hexes.


As per aipalm's reply, this is not the correct way to play (by the rules; if you want to houserule it, you of course can, but it will make the game a little easier since it becomes much simpler for you to protect fragile characters).

You can find details on alien targeting on p. 37 of the rulebook, section 8.10, which is where Mikeg99's summary is getting that line item.
 
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Tom Shuman
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I understood that rule for targeting. The rulebook says "if more than one agent is eligible for attack, the alien attacks the most wounded agent..." However, I was talking about movement and things that don't involve attacking. A xenon-beta that needs to move toward the closest agent (since he has no LOS), for example. I've been playing that if two agents are equidistant by area, then you look spatially which one is closer since the wording says closer. The tie breaker in the instance of attacking is clearly spelled out as damage. Maybe the hint is on page 8 of the rulebook where it says "the area has several uses in the game: determining distance..." Maybe all instances of distance are calculated by area. That just seems weird to me.

In any case, I'm having a lot of fun with the game so far. For all my questions, I still think we are playing right most of the time (a feeling quite alien [pardon the pun] to someone who's previous campaign/minis game was descent 2.0).
 
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Skaak
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sergeant shu wrote:
Maybe all instances of distance are calculated by area. That just seems weird to me.


It is weird, but that's the way the game's designed.

Best generic instance of this I could find in the rulebook is p. 31: "Typically, the behavior rules are based on the distance [measured in areas] between the alien and agents." That "typically" makes it a bit wishy-washy, but from the other things Simone (of the Gremlins) has said around the forums it sounds like aliens exclusively measure things in areas.

If you want to try and get an official ruling on this, my advice is to create a new thread in the Rules forum with a picture (or very clear text) example of an instance where this has come up, and a single question asking how best to measure range. I don't think Simone has ruled on this yet, and he tends to answer straight-forward single questions more than threads like this one that trend all over the place.
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If the Aracnos uses it GRAB ability, can this trigger GUARD if the Marine is the one being GRABBED?
 
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Also, would the Aracnos GRAB the sentry or the GD robot or will it only go after fleshy Agents!
 
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Skaak
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sador42 wrote:
If the Aracnos uses it GRAB ability, can this trigger GUARD if the Marine is the one being GRABBED?


Why are you posting this question multiple times in different threads? It's much better forum etiquette to post once, or even better create your own thread.
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