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Subject: Setting/background rss

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B Lewis
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I just want to ask a straightforward question(ok several questions but one basic one.)
Is there, however rudimentary, a background,setting,history behind the world of Myth?
To expand, what is the Darkness, is it a sentient living force or being?
What are the characters` motivations for pursuing these quests-gold, fame, a loftier purpose such as protecting people or places they care about? Where are they, and what kind of environment is it?
I know there are stories in the quests, but where is the over arching story and world to knit it all together? Yes I know I could invent it myself, but is it there to start with? I`ve read the online rule book and watched numerous videos. I know it is a kind of sandbox.
I don`t want to play a full blown RPG. Been there, done that. Nowadays I can enjoy PACG, A Touch of Evil, Arkham/Eldritch Horror, Runebound etc. I used to play Warhammer Quest.
All these have at least a basic setting and some character background that I can use my imagination to build on.
Sorry that got a lot more long winded than I intended, I just feel that Myth had the potential to be more fulfilling than these in the long term. Or is it just a tactical skirmish game with a fantasy flavour? Not that that`s bad, just not what I`m looking for.
More flavour, if you will.
Cheers.
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Yaeu Li
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I think it would be great if there was collection of art and lore put together eventually whether that was online or as part of a future Myth KS.
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Thorsten Schröder
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There are some hints of lore out there. Some gods or evils are mentioned and some of the monsters hae a litte background. The Cyclops are not a real race but people converted by some plants (body-snatched).

But I think that the lack of more lore is the concept behind this. You could use any fantasy background you like. It's generic enough for that.

I recently started playing Diablo 3 a bit again and imagined that it'd be cool to present that lore to my gaming group via playing Myth. Don't know if thats ever going to happen though...
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Donny Behne
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The designers specifically left it lore-light so you could create your own reasons and backgrounds. This isn't WHFB where everything is fleshed out and you're just visiting. This game is sandbox in many, many ways.
 
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B Lewis
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Thanks guys. Have to get my old DM-ing head back on and get creative?
Or I`m just waiting for Shadows of Brimstone, but that`s a whole other discussion.
Edited for sarcasm.
 
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Thorsten Schröder
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JimbobJones wrote:
kelann08 wrote:
The designers specifically left it lore-light so you could create your own reasons and backgrounds. This isn't WHFB where everything is fleshed out and you're just visiting. This game is sandbox in many, many ways.


Good Lord, I never thought that I'd hate the word "sandbox" as much as you people have made me hate it. Any time they're missing a rule, "it's a sandbox". Details are missing on a quest? "It's a sandbox." Lore is missing from the game? "Sandbox".

There's nothing wrong with saying "they haven't fleshed it out yet. Maybe they will in future expansions". But that doesn't make it "sandbox" at all.

How do I know? Everything has names. The orcs aren't "orcs", they're "Grubbers". The bug boss isn't "bug boss", it's "The Terror with 1,000 Legs". The big barbarian dude isn't "big barbarian", he's "Marcus the Ready". Iathi, Tailless, Sycline -- all have names that stop them from being "generic fantasy setting" and move them into "Myth Lore".

They likely haven't flushed out the lore yet. Maybe they never will. There's nothing wrong with that, but for the love of Mork (or is it Gork?), stop saying it's a "sandbox".

You're a teacher, right, Donny? (according to your profile, anyway). What if you asked a student a question that they didn't know the answer to and they said "I'm giving you the option to answer the question yourself, because it's a sandbox!"

Something tells me they wouldn't be getting an A+. (Although they'd likely get points for creativity).

Sometimes it's OK for there not to be an answer, even to the rules questions that need them. The answer "I don't know, yet" is a perfectly valid one. But that doesn't instantly make it "open ended" or a "sandbox" -- it just means there isn't an answer right now, which seems to be the instant (and instantly annoying) thing you and a lot of other Myth fans jump to every time there isn't an immediate answer.

So for the love of Gork (or is it Mork?), STOP IT!!!


I'm really getting tired of the fact that in almost every thread someone is trying to make me hate the game. If people are unsatisfied with the game then move on and play something else.

I GET IT THAT YOU THINK THAT THIS GAME IS POORLEY DESIGNED!!!
People have told me so in... it feels like a thousand threads.

So please folks: Write something constructive or else please shut up.

I enjoy reading what people write about playing the game and having fun. Why do you want to take that away from me?
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John Middleton
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A sandbox game gives you the tools to create whatever you want and to explore where ever, or whenever, you want. Something like Moldvay D&D or Gurps is a sandbox.

Myth doesn't give you shit for tools. It gives you decks that you can't really expand on without buying more stuff. It gives you some tiles which actually have some fairly constricting rules about laying them out and populating them. It gives you a few monsters but no information on adapting any others to the game. What's more, Myth actually has very tightly defined conditions for victory in every game.

Myth is pretty damn far from a sandbox in the way traditional RPGs are.


The lore thing bugs me too. They went out of their way to name the monsters weird names and included some rather crap fiction in the character profiles, but that is it. The quests present a little bit but much of the text, especially on the Story Cards, is almost nonsensical.

They need to decide which way they are going here.


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Donny Behne
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JimbobJones wrote:
kelann08 wrote:
The designers specifically left it lore-light so you could create your own reasons and backgrounds. This isn't WHFB where everything is fleshed out and you're just visiting. This game is sandbox in many, many ways.


Good Lord, I never thought that I'd hate the word "sandbox" as much as you people have made me hate it. Any time they're missing a rule, "it's a sandbox". Details are missing on a quest? "It's a sandbox." Lore is missing from the game? "Sandbox".

There's nothing wrong with saying "they haven't fleshed it out yet. Maybe they will in future expansions". But that doesn't make it "sandbox" at all.

How do I know? Everything has names. The orcs aren't "orcs", they're "Grubbers". The bug boss isn't "bug boss", it's "The Terror with 1,000 Legs". The big barbarian dude isn't "big barbarian", he's "Marcus the Ready". Iathi, Tailless, Sycline -- all have names that stop them from being "generic fantasy setting" and move them into "Myth Lore".

They likely haven't flushed out the lore yet. Maybe they never will. There's nothing wrong with that, but for the love of Mork (or is it Gork?), stop saying it's a "sandbox".

You're a teacher, right, Donny? (according to your profile, anyway). What if you asked a student a question that they didn't know the answer to and they said "I'm giving you the option to answer the question yourself, because it's a sandbox!"

Something tells me they wouldn't be getting an A+. (Although they'd likely get points for creativity).

Sometimes it's OK for there not to be an answer, even to the rules questions that need them. The answer "I don't know, yet" is a perfectly valid one. But that doesn't instantly make it "open ended" or a "sandbox" -- it just means there isn't an answer right now, which seems to be the instant (and instantly annoying) thing you and a lot of other Myth fans jump to every time there isn't an immediate answer.

So for the love of Gork (or is it Mork?), STOP IT!!!


Calm down, Jimbob.

I said this because it's true. Brian specifically stated that it is lore-light to make it easier to create your own mythology behind the game. This isn't "it's a sandbox" because I don't know the answer. It's what MCG actually said.

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Donny Behne
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JimbobJones wrote:
That doesn't make it a sandbox. It makes it them doing a half-assed job of defining their own lore.

The fact that so many players (a good portion of whom have never played the game) are swallowing the Kool-Aid is what's disturbing to me.


A) If that's how MCG decided to design it, it makes it whatever they want it to be. There are plenty of systems that are lore-light to allow for freedom to create. I don't see why this would make you upset.

B) Could it be that others like this system and you don't? Why do you need to compare it to joining a suicide cult?

C) I never said I agreed with the system, I was telling the OP what MCG said. I'm leaving the OP to make his own decision on how that makes him feel.
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Greg Von Chicken Pants
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JimbobJones wrote:
kelann08 wrote:
JimbobJones wrote:
kelann08 wrote:
The designers specifically left it lore-light so you could create your own reasons and backgrounds. This isn't WHFB where everything is fleshed out and you're just visiting. This game is sandbox in many, many ways.


Good Lord, I never thought that I'd hate the word "sandbox" as much as you people have made me hate it. Any time they're missing a rule, "it's a sandbox". Details are missing on a quest? "It's a sandbox." Lore is missing from the game? "Sandbox".

There's nothing wrong with saying "they haven't fleshed it out yet. Maybe they will in future expansions". But that doesn't make it "sandbox" at all.

How do I know? Everything has names. The orcs aren't "orcs", they're "Grubbers". The bug boss isn't "bug boss", it's "The Terror with 1,000 Legs". The big barbarian dude isn't "big barbarian", he's "Marcus the Ready". Iathi, Tailless, Sycline -- all have names that stop them from being "generic fantasy setting" and move them into "Myth Lore".

They likely haven't flushed out the lore yet. Maybe they never will. There's nothing wrong with that, but for the love of Mork (or is it Gork?), stop saying it's a "sandbox".

You're a teacher, right, Donny? (according to your profile, anyway). What if you asked a student a question that they didn't know the answer to and they said "I'm giving you the option to answer the question yourself, because it's a sandbox!"

Something tells me they wouldn't be getting an A+. (Although they'd likely get points for creativity).

Sometimes it's OK for there not to be an answer, even to the rules questions that need them. The answer "I don't know, yet" is a perfectly valid one. But that doesn't instantly make it "open ended" or a "sandbox" -- it just means there isn't an answer right now, which seems to be the instant (and instantly annoying) thing you and a lot of other Myth fans jump to every time there isn't an immediate answer.

So for the love of Gork (or is it Mork?), STOP IT!!!


Calm down, Jimbob.

I said this because it's true. Brian specifically stated that it is lore-light to make it easier to create your own mythology behind the game. This isn't "it's a sandbox" because I don't know the answer. It's what MCG actually said.



That doesn't make it a sandbox. It makes it them doing a half-assed job of defining their own lore.

That seems to be the standard response of Megacon when they don't have an answer. "Open-ended" "sandbox" "wanted players to be able to make the decision". No matter how you couch it, it all spells "we don't have an answer for you, so here's some bullshit to tide you over".

The fact that so many players (a good portion of whom have never played the game) are swallowing the Kool-Aid is what's disturbing to me.

There's a lot to like about this game, but I'm losing ton of faith in Megacon from day to day.


How much lore should a board game have? I don't know shit about my meeples in Agricola. Doesn't stop it from being a great game.

Obviously for you there's not enough lore in Myth.
 
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Matt Price
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JimbobJones wrote:
Cuthailion wrote:
I'm really getting tired of the fact that in almost every thread someone is trying to make me hate the game. If people are unsatisfied with the game then move on and play something else.

I GET IT THAT YOU THINK THAT THIS GAME IS POORLEY DESIGNED!!!
People have told me so in... it feels like a thousand threads.

So please folks: Write something constructive or else please shut up.

I enjoy reading what people write about playing the game and having fun. Why do you want to take that away from me?


How am I taking it away from you?

If you like this game that you never tried, then my opinions shouldn't matter to you whatsoever.

If you're on the fence (which it seems you are, otherwise my opinions would be meaningless to you), then get the game and form your own opinions.

I've actually been VERY fair regarding this game. I like much of it, and dislike much of it.

What I've hated about it, since day 1, are all of the lame excuses Megacon has and their attitude towards us, and now they have their legion of followers spouting the same nonsense. That's not going to change, unless they prove me wrong (to date, they've proven me right at every turn).


And I enjoy the conflict and controversy! If you like the game, go play it! What are you doing here? Here's where we gripe about the sandbox Mercs sent us under the pretense of it being a game! Why do you want to take this away from me? (and Jimbob, and quite a few others, too!)
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Greg Von Chicken Pants
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JimbobJones wrote:
Papathunder wrote:
How much lore should a board game have? I don't know shit about my meeples in Agricola. Doesn't stop it from being a great game.

Obviously for you there's not enough lore in Myth.


You realize you're talking about Apples and Onions here, right? Ameritrash games, like Myth, generally have a good amount of lore.

And my problem isn't the amount of lore that there is or isn't. Mine is in the job half-done. Either have lore or don't, but don't half-ass it and then say "It's a sandbox! Make it up on your own!"

Obviously, there's other issues for play with me here. Mostly because that same "sandbox" stock response has been Megacon's response to EVERY problem in the game. Somehow, this is the thread where it came to a head with me. (To Kelann08, I apologize about the blowup).

Think if Agricola only gave you half of the scoring rules, and told you they expected people would make the rest up on their own. And then, when you complained, you were told by not just them, but many of the game fans, how it was "better" that way and Agricola was a "sandbox" game because of it.


I'm talking about board games and board games. You need rules to play, you don't need lore.

Agricola has plenty of rules to play though it does have a FAQ (based on interpreting the rules) and a very small amount of errata.

Myth does not have enough rules to play, and you must incorporate its FAQ (based on missing rules) and errata.

Neither game offers much in the way of lore, though it hint at it. Ameritrash example: Lords of Waterdeep has almost no lore in box. It's called cubes of waterdeep for a reason, but it's still a fun game.

I would never defend a point of view that Myths missing rules should be attributed to a sandbox system. I'd defend a position that some of the ambiguities, such as lore, or how to populate a tile are in line with a sandbox system. I didn't KS thinking I'd be receiving a fleshed out world and back story. Honestly I hadn't even considered lore until reading this thread.
 
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John Middleton
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I guess we are sort of lucky that they didn't write more lore into the rulebook.


I could barely make it thorough stories that are included and I'm pretty sure they are written in Rodian or some other non-Earth language.



An open setting is fine but who the hell actually wants to create a setting for their skirmish boardgame? An RPG campaign sure.


It is very half-assed to start with names, and specific references to things in card and quest text, and then to decide that it is open because you are done writing what was needed for the game materials.

The Mercs world was the same sort of half-assed too though. With the same awful, awful fiction.
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B Lewis
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Just a small point for clarification. I don`t see how your reference to WHFB is relevant. The Warhammer Fantasy ROLEPLAY system was, for the most part, a well designed RPG with an interesting lore, setting and character choices. I designed and ran adventures and campaigns over 30 years, using the framework of whatever world setting I was using.

Anyway, I wasn`t asking for or expecting a fully tricked out RPG boardgame in a box, just a little bit of background lore and flavour for us to build on. You know, our characters have relevance and are making there own history in this world, however sketchy it is.
I saw potential here, but it seems only partly realised. Myth has some interesting ideas and systems, and a lot of players are enjoying it.

But, say, I want to try "A Touch of Evil". The designers say here`s your characters who are all different with a bunch of cool abilities. Here are some villains and critters. Here`s some boards with some countryside on them. Now off you go and design the setting and background for it, where people might live, and whatever, you know just make it all up for yourself. You decide the characters` and villains` motivation for being there. It`s all a sandbox, see. What, you expected us to go the extra mile and do some of that ourselves? You expect too much my friend, you`re never satisfied.
I want to try "A Touch of Evil". Karl the soldier made his way cautiously through the mist shrouded woods of the New England countryside. It was very dark. A short way ahead he could see a group of chanting black robed figures bending over a glowing symbol on the ground. He loaded his Musket. He`d be damned if this bunch of freaks were going to summon some unspeakable horror to destroy the people and town of Shadowbrook. He kind of liked it here. He felt he belonged.

Meanwhile, in a PACG universe far far away, Valeros decided to visit the town of Sandpoint. Maybe he would help drive some Goblins off for them. He kind of liked the women it there. They didn`t expect him to bring his own sand.


 
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Mike Miller

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Whoa. You lost me. Here-ish:
Master Patterner wrote:

I want to try "A Touch of Evil". Karl the soldier made his way cautiously through the mist shrouded woods of the New England countryside. It was very dark. A short way ahead he could see a group of chanting black robed figures bending over a glowing symbol on the ground. He loaded his Musket. He`d be damned if this bunch of freaks were going to summon some unspeakable horror to destroy the people and town of Shadowbrook. He kind of liked it here. He felt he belonged.

Meanwhile, in a PACG universe far far away, Valeros decided to visit the town of Sandpoint. Maybe he would help drive some Goblins off for them. He kind of liked the women it there. They didn`t expect him to bring his own sand.
 
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B Lewis
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I was attempting to show how a bit of background setting helps me enjoy these games more. I was assuming a fantasy set boardgame like Myth would have a little lore and background to its` world. Apparently it doesn`t.
I know Warhammer Quest and the Pathfinder Adventure Card Game already had a lot of material to draw from, but I was hoping that the Myth designers had fleshed out their world just a little. Would you enjoy WQ or PACG as much if you didn`t know where your character was in the world, or why certain events were taking place?
If my character goes and slaughters stuff, gets the gold and buys better gear, that`s fine. But it`s a fantasy setting, and they designed a good game with a lot of potential, but didn`t use their imagination to give it a background world. If I`m going to give you a lot of money, I would have liked it more rounded out. Is it really too much to ask for maybe half a page about the world of Myth, and what`s going on with this darkness thing?
Maybe it`s just me seeing more to it than was intended, a fun tactical miniatures game with a fantasy theme.
Look at Shadows of Brimstone. THAT I`ll be buying, and expanding with my own ideas, based on the worlds and settings they have created.
 
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Mike Miller

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Ah.
It might've helped to explain that. As it is, you just launched into a story - I don't know about others but I couldn't follow you without some missing transition.
 
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B Lewis
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Hmmm... ok.
 
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I was referring to Donny B`s post.
Yes, I know you were agreeing with me.
Anyway, moving on...
 
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