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Subject: I think it is time to arm soldiers.... rss

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http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Active-Shooter-Reported-at-...
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Born To Lose, Live To Win
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TheDashi wrote:


Or you can disarm mentally ill people.
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TheChin! wrote:
TheDashi wrote:


Or you can disarm mentally ill people.


Les sigh.... Of course I have to spell this out.
I see nothing that says he was an MP, so he was not allowed to carry a weapon on the base, so he illegally had it.
Did you know that mentally ill people can obtain weapons illegally?
I suppose if someone who is mentally ill is willing to commmit murder, they draw the line at illegally obtaining a weapon.
Kind of like people that go into schools and murder kids, they see that sign that says no guns, and they are like, you know what, thats where I draw the line....
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Did he obtain his gun illegally in this case?
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He illegally carried it on the base.
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That didn't answer my question. Above you referenced mentally ill people 'obtaining' guns. So was this gun obtained illegally?
 
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jmilum wrote:
That didn't answer my question. Above you referenced mentally ill people 'obtaining' guns. So was this gun obtained illegally?


Try and derail all you want. In THIS SITUATION, a solider illegally carried a weapon on the base. I added that mentally people will get guns illegally if they really want one, and this guy will carry a gun on the base illegally if he really wants to, so make it illegal all you want, if they want to either GET A GUN, or CARRY a gun illegally, they are going to do it.
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TheDashi wrote:

Les sigh.... Of course I have to spell this out.
I see nothing that says he was an MP, so he was not allowed to carry a weapon on the base, so he illegally had it.
Did you know that mentally ill people can obtain weapons illegally?
I suppose if someone who is mentally ill is willing to commmit murder, they draw the line at illegally obtaining a weapon.
Kind of like people that go into schools and murder kids, they see that sign that says no guns, and they are like, you know what, thats where I draw the line....


Nowhere does it say he illegally purchased it though. I'm not so absolutist to claim that people can't get guns illegally, but it's not like it's hard to get them LEGALLY when your mentally ill and then go on to do illegal things with them. If Congress and the Administration would have concentrated on shoring up gun control on the supply side, instead of galvanizing the issue by proposing stupid things like mag size limits and gun type restrictions which just gets responsible gun owners up in arms, then it would have been much harder for this person to acquire a weapon. Not impossible, but difficult.

This guy had a severe case of PTSD, what about all the guys on base with less severe PTSD who aren't driven to go buy a weapon, but if had one handy because they are all armed by the just-in-case lobby, they might go off and kill someone.
 
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Great, you guys have a whole conversation while I'm typing.
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What good will shoring up guns on the supply side do, will that stop the illegal supply of guns?
I have no doubt that the illegal supply of guns will continue. And if someone wants a gun, they will still get it illegally.
 
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TheDashi wrote:
Try and derail all you want.

It's not a derail to ask a question regarding what you posted.
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jmilum wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
Try and derail all you want.

It's not a derail to ask a question regarding what you posted.


You missed the point of, if people are willing to do ILLEGAL things, they are probably willing to do MORE illegal things.
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The thing is this sounds like a good idea but on balance probably isn't. Would all the admin staff be required to be armed with a side arm? So you instantly create a massive headache of keeping track of all these weapons and ammo in peace time.

You can add in the accidental shootings and low level escalations and the death toll may be higher than you save from the headline events. Also it removes the ability for MPs and the like to actually disarm the unstable until after they pull a gun out and start shooting.
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TheDashi wrote:
What good will shoring up guns on the supply side do, will that stop the illegal supply of guns?
I have no doubt that the illegal supply of guns will continue. And if someone wants a gun, they will still get it illegally.


I'm sure you can get real machine guns illegally also. Not assault rifles, but real machine guns, but they are hard to get because they are so regulated. The same can happen to other weapons.

You are always going to have a black market for everything, that much is true. You have to be very motivated to find and get what you want. The seller also is aware of the dangers they are in if what they sell is traced back to them. At the moment, there are little to no consequences for sellers, legal or otherwise, for selling to people who otherwise should not have a weapon.

Sane, responsible people should be able to buy guns. Mentally ill, irresponsible people should not and we should make it as difficult as possible for them for our own safety. Letting them get guns and then just arming ourselves for defense isn't much of a defense. Guns aren't a deterrent to the irrational, so your implied method of minimizing the risk of the mentally ill is to wait until they open fire and then gun them down. The horse is out of the barn by that point.
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Right, the problem is with this specific crazy guy, and the fact that everyone else around him wasn't armed to the teeth to prevent his rampage, not the fact that it's easy as pie to buy a gun, and that we have so many guns floating about in our society that it's effectively impossible to stop someone from illegally obtaining one (although, again, the gun in this particular incident was legally obtained, if not legally carried)
 
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toku42 wrote:
Right, the problem is with this specific crazy guy, and the fact that everyone else around him wasn't armed to the teeth to prevent his rampage, not the fact that it's easy as pie to buy a gun, and that we have so many guns floating about in our society that it's effectively impossible to stop someone from illegally obtaining one (although, again, the gun in this particular incident was legally obtained, if not legally carried)


Yeah, allowing people to defend themselves is definitely not the answer.
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TheDashi wrote:
toku42 wrote:
Right, the problem is with this specific crazy guy, and the fact that everyone else around him wasn't armed to the teeth to prevent his rampage, not the fact that it's easy as pie to buy a gun, and that we have so many guns floating about in our society that it's effectively impossible to stop someone from illegally obtaining one (although, again, the gun in this particular incident was legally obtained, if not legally carried)


Yeah, allowing people to defend themselves is definitely not the answer.


Like Chin said, the horse is out of the barn by the time people have to defend themselves
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toku42 wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
toku42 wrote:
Right, the problem is with this specific crazy guy, and the fact that everyone else around him wasn't armed to the teeth to prevent his rampage, not the fact that it's easy as pie to buy a gun, and that we have so many guns floating about in our society that it's effectively impossible to stop someone from illegally obtaining one (although, again, the gun in this particular incident was legally obtained, if not legally carried)


Yeah, allowing people to defend themselves is definitely not the answer.


Like Chin said, the horse is out of the barn by the time people have to defend themselves


Well, people wills till wind up doing it anyways, so when those measures fail, and they still dont have the ability to defend themselves, what do you do then? Look back and say, if only we had melted down every gun in the universe?
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TheDashi wrote:
toku42 wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
toku42 wrote:
Right, the problem is with this specific crazy guy, and the fact that everyone else around him wasn't armed to the teeth to prevent his rampage, not the fact that it's easy as pie to buy a gun, and that we have so many guns floating about in our society that it's effectively impossible to stop someone from illegally obtaining one (although, again, the gun in this particular incident was legally obtained, if not legally carried)


Yeah, allowing people to defend themselves is definitely not the answer.


Like Chin said, the horse is out of the barn by the time people have to defend themselves


Well, people wills till wind up doing it anyways, so when those measures fail, and they still dont have the ability to defend themselves, what do you do then? Look back and say, if only we had melted down every gun in the universe?


Yeah, that's exactly my position. Congratulations. You win
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If he was a soldier and mentally ill how would other soldiers being armed have made his task any harder? Surely better searches are what are needed, rather then allowing nutters to carry guns legally rather then illegally?
 
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I know I'm kind of out there on this, but bear with me: instead of arming soldiers - how about we follow through on our commitment to soldiers and actually provide them with high-quality, comprehensive health care and treatment as part of the life-long commitment to their service?
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slatersteven wrote:
If he was a soldier and mentally ill how would other soldiers being armed have made his task any harder? Surely better searches are what are needed, rather then allowing nutters to carry guns legally rather then illegally?


Seriously? You seriously asked this question? How would it have made it harder?
I am not at a loss for words, but I dont think I can phrase my answer in a non insulting manner.
 
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Arm everyone and then pass the 'look at you funny' law so that you can shoot anyone that makes you feel hinky. That's the ticket.
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xilan wrote:
I know I'm kind of out there on this, but bear with me: instead of arming soldiers - how about we follow through on our commitment to soldiers and actually provide them with high-quality, comprehensive health care and treatment as part of the life-long commitment to their service?


He was getting treatment.
 
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jmilum wrote:
Arm everyone and then pass the 'look at you funny' law so that you can shoot anyone that makes you feel hinky. That's the ticket.


Yeah, that would be step two after arming soldiers. I have no doubt on that.
 
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