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Subject: Win Condition Guide rss

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Steven Albano
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I'm just trying to clarify some things with a few statements:

Tanner ALWAYS wins if the Tanner dies.

Villager Team wins if a Werewolf is killed.
Villager Team wins if there is a tie and nobody on the Werewolf Team is an active role.

Werewolf Team CAN'T win if Werewolf is killed.
Werewolf Team wins if someone other than the Tanner is killed.
Werewolf Team wins if there a tie and a Werewolf is an active role.


TIE = everyone gets one vote.

Right, I think that has everything?
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Goo
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I think it helps to think of the Tanner as win-stealing. If the Tanner dies, he wins and everybody else loses.

I find poeple have trouble understanding the Minion with win conditions. Minion loses if a Wolf is killed and wins if not, even if he is killed. For some reason, poeple who don't know Werewolf very we'll have a tough time understanding what team the Minion is on.
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Greg Nyd
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colormage1 wrote:
I'm just trying to clarify some things with a few statements:

Tanner ALWAYS wins if the Tanner dies.

Villager Team wins if a Werewolf is killed.
Villager Team wins if there is a tie and nobody on the Werewolf Team is an active role.

Werewolf Team CAN'T win if Werewolf is killed.
Werewolf Team wins if someone other than the Tanner is killed.
Werewolf Team wins if there a tie and a Werewolf is an active role.


Right, I think that has everything?


Minion wins if there are no active werewolves, but he's not killed (or tanner).
 
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David Gregg
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I like to think of the minion as a decoy UNLESS he's the only one on the werewolf team, at which point he essentially becomes a werewolf.

Minion wins if there are werewolves among players and none die, even if he dies
Minion wins if there are no werewolves among players and he does not die
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Charlie Theel
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Gelatinous Goo wrote:
I think it helps to think of the Tanner as win-stealing. If the Tanner dies, he wins and everybody else loses.


The Villagers can win with the Tanner if the Tanner and a Werewolf is killed.
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Clyde W
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charlest wrote:
Gelatinous Goo wrote:
I think it helps to think of the Tanner as win-stealing. If the Tanner dies, he wins and everybody else loses.


The Villagers can win with the Tanner if the Tanner and a Werewolf is killed.
Yeah but is that really fun? It just causes tanner claims more, right? I like to use tanner as a pro-evil tool, and that nerfs it, or even helps good.
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Goo
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There's a handy reference chart in the files section:

One Night Ultimate Werewolf Win Condition Quick Reference Card
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Paul Smith
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colormage1 wrote:

Werewolf Team wins if there a tie and a Werewolf is an active role.

Is that correct? I thought if a werewolf was tied for lynch lead then the village wins.
 
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Goo
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SaiSaysPlayGo wrote:
colormage1 wrote:

Werewolf Team wins if there a tie and a Werewolf is an active role.

Is that correct? I thought if a werewolf was tied for lynch lead then the village wins.


I think he means a tie as in the "round robin" vote where no one is lynched.
 
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Pseudo Pserious
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Here's how I explain/play it:

PseudoPserious wrote:
The win conditions are:

- the Villager Team wants at least one Werewolf, but no Tanners, to die
- the Werewolf Team wants no Werewolves and no Tanners to die
- each Tanner wants to die (which causes all other players, including the other Tanner, to lose)


The two edge cases are:
- Minion active, all Wolves in the Reserve: Minion essentially becomes a WW (but with no Lone Wolf advantage)
- All Wolves and the Minion in the Reserve: Villager Team must arrange for no-one to die*

*This can be tricky if there's a Tanner around. There are ways to handle it through voting, you can always play with the Drunk (which prevents this edge case), or you can just not worry about it since it so very, very rarely happens.
 
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Charlie Theel
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PseudoPserious wrote:
Here's how I explain/play it:

PseudoPserious wrote:
The win conditions are:

- the Villager Team wants at least one Werewolf, but no Tanners, to die
- the Werewolf Team wants no Werewolves and no Tanners to die
- each Tanner wants to die (which causes all other players, including the other Tanner, to lose)


The two edge cases are:
- Minion active, all Wolves in the Reserve: Minion essentially becomes a WW (but with no Lone Wolf advantage)
- All Wolves and the Minion in the Reserve: Villager Team must arrange for no-one to die*

*This can be tricky if there's a Tanner around. There are ways to handle it through voting, you can always play with the Drunk (which prevents this edge case), or you can just not worry about it since it so very, very rarely happens.


The Tanner condition is not universally true. If the Tanner dies, the Villagers can still win if they lynch a Wolf.
 
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Pseudo Pserious
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charlest wrote:
PseudoPserious wrote:
Here's how I explain/play it:


The Tanner condition is not universally true. If the Tanner dies, the Villagers can still win if they lynch a Wolf.

True, which is why I qualified it as "how I play". You can mod it as follows to be officially compliant:

- the Villager Team wants at least one Werewolf to die
- the Werewolf Team wants no Werewolves and no Tanners to die
- each Tanner individually wants to die
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Nate Yourchuck
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PseudoPserious wrote:
charlest wrote:
PseudoPserious wrote:
Here's how I explain/play it:


The Tanner condition is not universally true. If the Tanner dies, the Villagers can still win if they lynch a Wolf.

True, which is why I qualified it as "how I play". You can mod it as follows to be officially compliant:

- the Villager Team wants at least one Werewolf to die
- the Werewolf Team wants no Werewolves and no Tanners to die
- each Tanner individually wants to die


This thread is already enough of a train wreck without people slipping in poorly worded house rules. Charlie is the only one to post accurate win conditions. Everyone else has at least one mistake in their clarifications.

It further muddies the waters to say things like the villagers "want" at least one werewolf to die. Just say the villagers WIN if at least one Werewolf dies.
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Scott Dye
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Much of this has already discussed in this thread. It also contains a lot of posts that are actually variant rules/win conditions as well, but in the end I think it mostly gets sorted out.

More importantly, Ted Alspach created an "official" win conditions guide and has posted it in the files section as well.

Below is what I ended up with at the end of the above thread, in two forms. To my knowledge they are all correct to the official rules, not variants. However, I think Ted's aid works well also.


Win Conditions
EACH PLAYER WHO IS A:

Werewolf
• Wins if both Wolves and Tanner are alive

Villager*• Wins if at least one Wolf dies (even if he/she dies also)
• Wins if the village does not kill anyone (including Tanner) when all Wolves are in the center

Tanner• Wins if he dies (Tanner & Villagers can both win if Tanner and Wolf die)

Minion
• Wins if both Werewolves are alive (even if he dies)
• Wins if he and Tanner are alive and at least one other player dies when all Wolves are in the center

* Note: Villager includes Seer, Robber, Trouble Maker, Drunk, Hunter, Insomniac, Mason, and (untransformed) Doppelgänger

------------------------
Win conditions, even more simply stated:

Werewolves: You win if all werewolves (and the Tanner) survive.
Tanner: You win if you die.
Villager team: You win if a Werewolf dies. If there are no Werewolves, you win if nobody dies.
Minion: Wins if Werewolves and the Tanner survive, even if he dies. If no player is a Werewolf, wins if any other player dies as long you (the Minion) and the Tanner do not die

*Tanner & Villagers can both win if Tanner and Wolf die
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Steven Albano
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But the Werewolves can win if the Tanner dies too? Right?

If a Tanner and Seer are lynched, for example.

EDIT: It says in the rules that if the Tanner dies then the Werewolf team can't win?
 
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Scott Dye
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Werewolves do not win if a Tanner dies, regardless of who else may die.
 
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Clyde W
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porkozone wrote:
Werewolves do not win if a Tanner dies, regardless of who else may die.
So have you played this much by now? (I think last time we spoke, you had not yet played.)

Have you found yourself incorporating any house rules that are helpful, or have you only stuck to official rules? Have you found that people are confused by the official rules?
 
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Scott Dye
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clydeiii wrote:
porkozone wrote:
Werewolves do not win if a Tanner dies, regardless of who else may die.
So have you played this much by now? (I think last time we spoke, you had not yet played.)

Have you found yourself incorporating any house rules that are helpful, or have you only stuck to official rules? Have you found that people are confused by the official rules?


Unfortunately, I have not. At least not enough to get into altering rules. I introduced it to my group of friends a few weeks back, but we only played one or two rounds at the end that included Tanner, so they never really got into the variations on how he worked. I've played 3-player with the Tanner with my 9 year old daughters, but that's different enough that we play by the main rules with no issues - but they are not great at using the Tanner role (yet)
 
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D.M. Jones
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s3rvant wrote:
I like to think of the minion as a decoy UNLESS he's the only one on the werewolf team, at which point he essentially becomes a werewolf.

Minion wins if there are werewolves among players and none die, even if he dies
Minion wins if there are no werewolves among players and he does not die


So, what if there is a Minion in play with both wolves in the middle. If the villagers vote to kill the Minion does that count as a win for the village team? Or does it just mean the villagers failed to kill a wolf and the minion failed to avoid getting killed. That would seem a little odd. Wouldn't it make sense for the Minion to 'become' a werewolf in this case, and in doing so give the village some chance at winning?

Similarly, if there are two wolves / the minion in the middle and the tanner is in play can the village even win? Normally they would need a circle vote to avoid killing someone, but that sort of goes against the victory condition of the tanner. So, wouldn't the tanner just break the circle and cause both sides to fail? I mean, he can't vote for himself, but he can tank the village team's chances. Just curious why the tanner doesn't need to become a member of the village team when the wolves/minion are in the center. It happened in a game we played on Saturday.
 
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David Gregg
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getdafunkout wrote:
So, what if there is a Minion in play with both wolves in the middle. If the villagers vote to kill the Minion does that count as a win for the village team?

Yes, that's exactly right. When both wolves are in the middle, the villagers need to lynch the minion.

getdafunkout wrote:
Similarly, if there are two wolves / the minion in the middle and the tanner is in play can the village even win? Normally they would need a circle vote to avoid killing someone, but that sort of goes against the victory condition of the tanner. So, wouldn't the tanner just break the circle and cause both sides to fail?

Only way I know to deal with this one is to figure out who the tanner is, setup the circle vote and have a group skilled enough to know they need to reverse the circle when voting to trick the tanner. There are other rather long threads devoted to this issue if you want to read up more on it.
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D.M. Jones
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Thanks for the reply!

After my last post I searched the forum here a bit more. It seems like, in the both-werewolves-in-the-middle scenario I mentioned, the villagers don't win if they lynch the minion but they do prevent him from winning. The villagers would lose because they have failed to kill a werewolf. I kind of feel like I will house-rule this one. If there is a lone minion (at the end of the game) the minion 'becomes' a werewolf.

I also came across the multiple tanner discussions on the forum. I like the role and only find it to be a bit strange in this particular 'WW in the middle instance.' I don't dislike the role but am just a little unsatisfied with how these werewolf-less situations resolve in some no-win situations. Fortunately the designers seem quite supportive of letting groups find solutions that work for them. I think I will just house rule it again, so that the tanner wins with the village if there are no wolves / lone minions in play. We came up with this solution on-the-spot on Saturday and everyone agreed that it made sense.

Cheers
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Clyde W
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Including the Drunk helps with these situations. You just kill him and be done with it.
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D.M. Jones
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Yes, and I did appreciate reading your suggestion and observations regarding the value of the drunk.

But...
the Drunk is my least favourite of the special roles. I include him sometimes, but I kind of prefer not including him other times. I think the tweaks I mentioned above for the '2-werewolves-in-the-middle' situations will work for us. Thanks again.

Cheers
 
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I don't see this referenced here, and it's a rare case - but do the same win conditions hold in a 3-player game if the players are 2 wolves and a minion.

The language for the minion/wolves win conditions mean that in theory the wolves would still win if killing the minion. However, I wonder if this situation where all members are on the same team wouldn't create the need for all members to survive in order to create a win for all, similar to the all villagers team win condition.

Would the same apply in a 2 wolf, 1 minion & 1 doppel-wolf/minion 4 player game?
 
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Werewolves do not need to kill anyone, just survive. So in Minion + 2x Werewolf they can either tie votes or kill the minion for everyone to win.

Yes, doppelwolf is a real wolf, and doppelminion is a real minion. If no werewolves are killed, they win.
 
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