Don Fehner
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Hey guys!
Needing to get a solo game continues, so I decided on card game for solo play. I'm interested in both Pathfinder and LoTR, so I am wondering which title is best for solo play. I know about the expansions for both, and I'm okay with it. I just need to get feedback of what you all think of these games and why. Thank you all!
 
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Even though on the surface they seem similar, the two games are quite different.

d10-1 LotR is both, a more complicated and a more intricate game system. This means there are (a lot, IMO) more decisions to make in a game of LotR than in PACG. PACG is more a romp where you observe what happens. You can affect the outcomes, but the number of brain burning decisions is not high.

d10-2 LotR is more like a puzzle and a resource management game, PACG is more like a dungeon crawler.

d10-3 LotR requires you to deckbuild beyond the first quest. This means you'll have to put some effort in up-front before you dive into a quest. The effort pays off because once you have some expansions, you do have many possible decks to build and card synergies to discover. The character deck building in PACG is more organic -- the deck changes as you play the game.

d10-4 The above being said, LotR is quicker to set up, especially if you have your player deck created.

d10-5 The card effects in LotR are more varied and unique. Most PACG card effects add dice to your rolls. This goes back to LotR being a more decision heavy game, because having many different card effects means certain cards can change the game a lot. At the same time, in PACG this means there is a more gradual feeling for the progression of the game session, but fewer important decisions to make.

d10-6 LotR is a harder game. You have to be prepared to lose quite a bit even once you've gotten familiar with the game.

d10-7 The quests in LotR are more varied -- the rules can change quite a bit between quests and even between different stages of a quest. The quests can be a hit and miss -- there are some very well thought out, thematic quests, but there are some duds too. On average, the quests are excellent, though. The PACG quests from the Base Set felt quite samey to me. The bottom line here for me is that I find LotR's narrative more compelling.

d10-8 PACG offers a sense of progression -- you get items as you go on quests that you can then make a part of your deck. This creates a good feeling of character progression and campaign play. LotR quests from the same cycle do form a story arc, but until recently you didn't have the same type of campaign mechanic where cards from one quest transfer to another. FFG recently introduced Campaign Mode which aims to address this, but it seems this is only part of the Saga Expansions, not the regular cycles.

These are some of the highlights. Most of these are things that you have to figure out which game's approach you prefer, and are not necessarily a matter of quality.

As you might guess, I think LotR is a far more rewarding game, but it might still not be your thing. From the games on your list, I am familiar with Mice and Mystics, and though I haven't played it, I would venture a guess that PACG is more similar to it than LotR.

Edits: Spelling and formatting.
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Mike W
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Hey Don.

I have both but haven't given Pathfinder a solo playthrough yet. So keep that in mind please. I've played it with my son and for me it just seems to be more geared to getting one or more people to come along for the ride and participate. When I need to get my solo fix in the LoTR LCG is what I go for.

I'm a Tolkien fan so immediately am drawn to the theme and lore. I think they've done a very good job with the mechanics. Every time I play I feel like I'm exploring a bit of Middle Earth. I single deck and like that also. You can manage two decks as an option. There's quite a few online resources out there to help with building your decks, etc. It's amazing what a tweak here and there can do for your chances of success. I found that enjoyable too. The decks recommended in the core set can leave you a bit frustrated so some customization helps.

I think getting a game setup is a bit quicker for LoTR as well. It's quite challenging also which makes my successful adventures all the more rewarding!

I think both games are good but for solo play I'd recommend LoTR.

Hope that helps.
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Jim Hansen
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Here are a few threads that should answer your questions.

PACG vs LotR vs Mage Knight: Solo Gamer Perspective
Lord of the Rings TCG: The best solo game in my collection
Is this a fantastic (solo) game? Here's Wot I Think.

IMO, if you only want to control one deck, LotR wins in a landslide. It's more of a decision if you are OK with controlling multiple characters in Pathfinder, but it really depends on what you are looking for.
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esin .
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Pathfinder is simple, but gives a good feeling of beefing up your characters stats and deck rpg style.

LOTR is deeper. Meatier, harder decisions to make. More focused on Deck building. For a solo experience it feels like Magic the Gathering and it works brilliantly. Recommend playing two-handed when going solo as the game is ultimately balanced towards it.

I only played the base set, but the scenarios were all too similar. LOTR has some vastly differing scenarios. They almost feel like new games unto themselves the way they add new mechanics.
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I had LOTR with a bunch of expansions for solo play. I found that, even with deck-building, the missions were too difficult for just a single player, so, as recommended, I wound up controlling two players, but since each player is in charge of three characters, that means having to manage six characters at once. I found the micromanagement too tedious for the game to still be fun. I was getting fed up with keeping track of all the powers, modifiers, and interactions between six different characters and found myself making sup-optimal moves just to cut down on the bookkeeping. Consequently, because I wasn't playing well, the game once again was too difficult to win. I greatly appreciate the mechanics of the game - I just feel it isn't very solitaire friendly. I'm not opposed to lots of decisions and some fiddliness - I think Mage Knight is amazing as a solo game and there's a lot going on in that game, but the solo play doesn't feel shoehorned to me like it does in LOTR. Traded it.

I haven't played Pathfinder, but I'm interested in it for solo play, so I will be watching this thread.

Also, after giving up on LOTR, I started looking for more games that are exclusively for solo play. That's when I found:

Friday, which is a deck builder designed strictly for solo play. It's cheap, and it's a fantastic game (although it takes a few plays for it to 'click'… which is a good thing - it's not simply Dominion for one player.) The only drawback is that there aren't any expansions for it, so it's replay value is limited. Still, for the price, I consider it essential for any solo gamer looking for a card game.

There's also Legendary the Marvel Deck Buil: I recommend this over Thunderstone for solo play. It feels more thematic. In-game triggers happen that kind of, sort of, seem like an actual story plot. Sort of. More than Thunderstone, anyway.

Another to consider: Sentinels of the Multiverse. It's another super hero theme, but not a deck builder like Legendary. I haven't played it, but it seems somewhat heavier, yet still manageable. Apparently you need to control three heroes at once or it's too difficult to win, but that's still three heroes less than LOTR. I will be picking this one up.
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Kristen Umansky
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I'm currently playing pathfinder solo. I'm playing one character, not multiple, and am really enjoying it.

I just completed the first adventure pack yesterday. The first 2 scenarios were easy enough, but it got harder as I went along. When you are playing with just 1 character the choices you make to level up are much more important. Each character has weaknesses and there are things that you can not pass unless you strengthen those weaknesses. So finding items, weapons & allies that can help you is important otherwise I don't see how it would be possible to go through the entire thing with just 1 character. I find that challenge to be really fun. I shuffled the adventure 2 cards in already and it seems every new henchman and villain needs me to have strong intelligence and wisdom and those are my characters weaknesses. Thank goodness I focused my leveling up on those 2 things (not sure it will help that much though honestly), and not on making her strengths even stronger.
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Sky Zero
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Sold Lord of The Rings:LCG, but still have, play and love Pathfinder. LOTR is very fiddly and puzzly when played. You must absolutely love deck building to enjoy LOTR because it is required to win. Pathfinder for me has a lot of theme, tells an adventure and I enjoy seeing my merry band of misfits grow.
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Frankly imho, getting War of the Ring and playing both sides destroys both games.
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I haven't played Pathfinder, but I've looked into it quite a bit. The general consensus I'm hearing from people who solo a lot is that the game is a lot of fun for a while, but the scenarios get very same-y and there is not a lot of decision making going on. It's dungeon crawl, beat the boss, hope to find good treasures, dungeon crawl again, beat the boss again, hope to find good treasures again. The people who are still enjoying the game seem to be mostly people who are playing in a group and have that whole "social life" thing going on.

LOTR:LCG I can speak about from my own experience, as I've played it solo pretty extensively. THIS GAME IS FANTASTIC. The scenarios are varied so every game is a bit different. The mechanics are elegant, the cards are beautiful, and every card is steeped in Tolkien lore. There are numerous ways to play the game successfully. There is a great fan community dedicated to talking about the game, suggesting decks, creating new scenarios and helping newbies out with the formidable rules.

The game plays quickly, has minimal setup time and is extremely portable. All you need to take this game on the road is a couple of deckboxes and a bag for the tokens and threat counter. I take it to work all the time to play on my lunch break.

The base difficulty is brutal, but it is so very rewarding when you win. And there are ways to make it less difficult. For those who find the standard difficulty too punishing, FFG have introduced Easy Mode as an official option. This takes a few of the more murderous cards out of the encounter deck and gives you a few extra resources. I've played a couple of games on Easy, and found it very entertaining, but I do like the challenge so I tend to stay on Standard. And of course, for those who want MORE challenge, there are now Nightmare Decks that do the opposite of Easy Mode.

There's no roleplaying in LOTR, but if you go with a thematic deck you do start to feel like there is a story there. And in the latest Saga expansion, FFG introduced campaign rules that add a little of the RPG flavor to the game.

There is, however, a lot of "work" that needs to be done in between games if you want to have a chance at winning. Every expansion brings you new cards, and several of them bring all new mechanics that tend to make your older decks unviable. Building your decks in between games is a significant part of the game. If you're not into that, LOTR is probably not for you. If you are, you can't go wrong with this game.
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Gryphon Tracks wrote:

There is, however, a lot of "work" that needs to be done in between games if you want to have a chance at winning. Every expansion brings you new cards, and several of them bring all new mechanics that tend to make your older decks unviable. Building your decks in between games is a significant part of the game. If you're not into that, LOTR is probably not for you. If you are, you can't go wrong with this game.


I agree with your post wholeheartedly, except with this point.

I would say that there are only a few quests where a certain approach or deck type are required. For the vast majority of quests, you can use a general deck successfully. There are some decks posted on BGG that do this. So, once you build a deck you are happy with, the changes can be mostly incremental and don't take as much time and effort.

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honeyralmond wrote:
Gryphon Tracks wrote:

There is, however, a lot of "work" that needs to be done in between games if you want to have a chance at winning. Every expansion brings you new cards, and several of them bring all new mechanics that tend to make your older decks unviable. Building your decks in between games is a significant part of the game. If you're not into that, LOTR is probably not for you. If you are, you can't go wrong with this game.


I agree with your post wholeheartedly, except with this point.

I would say that there are only a few quests where a certain approach or deck type are required. For the vast majority of quests, you can use a general deck successfully. There are some decks posted on BGG that do this. So, once you build a deck you are happy with, the changes can be mostly incremental and don't take as much time and effort.



You're right, you don't need to completely rebuild your deck every time. Mostly it's just tinkering, or as you say, incremental changes. But I always point out this aspect of the game because I've seen a lot of people saying they dumped the game because of this. It's something that not everybody likes.
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Jari H.
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Hi, im Also looking to get pacg or lotr... Leaning towards pacg because i feel there is something in whole living Card thing what i dont like... Also i have feeling that i have to own everything so in pacg case thats 200€ max, where lotr...€€€?
In lotr how do you feel returning to old adventures when they been won once? Also is is the deck building half the battle in lotr? In my eyes it just boils down to buying best packs (or every pack), building best minmaxed deck and clearing out adventures (how much random in 1 scenario)? Still game it self looks and feels great (loved space hulk card game also). With pacg I'm afraid that there are too little decisions to be made...

Is it better to look some other game? Basicly I'm looking for:

Solo AND 2player game (no overlord player allways coop)
Strong theme is nice
Fantasy setting would be nice
Dungeon crawl is big+
As much random in game setup as possible!
Dice, cards & tiles I don't care. Its all good
Setup + game time 30-90mins
Medium size footprint (my eldritch horror setup takes whole table that's max..)

Also I add that mage knight could be too long / fiddly for me
 
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Jason Nopa
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PACG scales better for more players. (Support up to 6, but it's probably best with 3-4 characters - which can be played by any number of players)

LotR is best with 2 players, however, it can be played with more or less (i would limit the game to 4, though).

PACG is more about creating a deck representing a character and progressing the character/leveling them up by finding loot and cards to permanently add to your deck.

LotR is more about deckbuilding and going on quests that tell a thematic story in middle earth.

PACG battles revolve around [usually] singular characters rolling dice to deal damage and resolving differences in rolls vs values to meet to resolve successful kills or failing to kill and receiving damage. (there is not much interaction between players during gameplay except for deciding the best way to explore locations - part of the primary goal of the game)

LotR battles involve more interaction with other players to figure out who should engage what enemies that come up, how to distribute damage, putting allies into play to block and help attack, etc. (a lot of strategy and character interaction to be successful in battles and questing)

PACG setup requires creating multiple (4 or more depending on the number of players) small location decks (10-15 cards) from many different card types (weapons, monsters, items, allies, villains, henchmen, barriers, etc) and must be done randomly from a card pool of each type every time. (take down involves sorting them back out into card types)

LotR setup requires pulling multiple card sets (2-5 card sets of 10-20 cards each) and shuffling them together in a single deck. (take down involves sorting out to card sets)

PACG doesn't have a lot of variety in the adventures, but only 4 of the 6 adventure packs have been released (to go along with the adventures in the core set) Going back and replaying adventures with the same characters would be fairly easy. Another PACG will be released in August involving new characters and classes and a pirate theme, however, the game is designed for fresh characters, and would probably not scale to characters created for the current PACG.

LotR has a lot of variety in adventures, with 3 big expansions, 3 of 4 6-release cycle expansions out, and 3 of 4 saga expansions, and 3 (so far) Gen-con Scenarios released in addition to the core. (and probably even more expansions to come out in the future) While you also run into the same problem as you do in PACG (once you gain access to stronger cards, the standard game gets easier), Nightmare Packs are being released which replace existing cards to make older scenarios more difficult.

With that said, if you like coming up with combos and character interaction, resource management, and have a 2nd player to play with, then I would lean more towards LotR. If you like hand management, dice rolling, and character progression, I would lean more towards PACG.

There is a lot more to buy with LotR, but it is also a harder game, and it will last you longer if you can stick with it. However, if you don't mind a more straightforward game and like character progression, PACG can be fun replaying with the many different character classes available to it.
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Thanee
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MrHarmaa wrote:
Hi, im Also looking to get pacg or lotr... Leaning towards pacg because i feel there is something in whole living Card thing what i dont like... Also i have feeling that i have to own everything so in pacg case thats 200€ max, where lotr...€€€?


You absolutely do not need to own everything (especially not right away).

The good thing about cooperative games is, that there are no other players to compete against. You just set your own pace. Buy packs when you feel like it.

If you are a completionist, you will probably end up owning all of them, eventually, anyways.

Quote:
In lotr how do you feel returning to old adventures when they been won once?


Depends. Some are easy and therefore fairly boring.

However, some are really nice, and I like to play some of the older scenarios with different decks. As mentioned somewhere above, you can also buy upgrade packs (Nightmare Decks) to make older scenarios more challenging.

After all, you can build vastly different decks in this game and even use fairly different approaches against the same scenario.

It's part of the fun to try the same scenarios in different ways and with different decks.

Quote:
Also is is the deck building half the battle in lotr?


That's a definite yes. Deck building is extremely important.

Quote:
In my eyes it just boils down to buying best packs (or every pack), building best minmaxed deck and clearing out adventures (how much random in 1 scenario)?


There is plenty randomness in a single scenario already. And different scenarios are often so different, that you want to try completely different approaches. So, building one super awesome deck might work well against a number of scenarios, but there are tons of viable approaches, so there is no single "killer deck".

As for randomness... you draw encounter cards from a stack every round. This is quite random and they are pretty different, from enemies to locations to treacheries (i.e. events). Also, during combat you draw shadow cards for the enemies you fight, which might or might not alter the attack of the enemy, or do something in addition. These are quite diverse also.

The game works extremely well for a single player and even more for two players (perfect number for this game).

Bye
Thanee
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Jari H.
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HMM, i still need to watch more youtube videos to make decision...

1 Thing im worried about that there is no way to "reset" the experience, no way to start over, like you would in pacg: start with level 1 char from first quest. Someone with something to add in that? anyway to do it? Or is the living card game idea just that you experience it once and then you move on...
 
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Matthew Jones
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MrHarmaa wrote:
HMM, i still need to watch more youtube videos to make decision...

1 Thing im worried about that there is no way to "reset" the experience, no way to start over, like you would in pacg: start with level 1 char from first quest. Someone with something to add in that? anyway to do it? Or is the living card game idea just that you experience it once and then you move on...


There aren't really levels, per se. There are your gameplay decks which you've built using the cards that match the type of hero you have. I suppose that resetting/starting over would simply consist of making a new deck and/or trying new heroes out on the adventure you've already done.

But there's not really the old D&D style of experience levels that you progress through (unless you count your own personal experience gain through your play, which is harder to quantify than XP )

I would say that the LotR LCG game is for the type of people who are the completionists in video gaming, the folks who want to get all the possible "X" there are to be found in the game. The people who get done with an adventure like Baldur's Gate or Skyrim and immediately ask themselves, "Ok, I just beat it as a Human Paladin, I wonder if I could beat this game as a Half-Dwarvish/Half-orcish, lawful-evil mage?" You have to like going back through the game and replaying it trying out new combos of cards to make LotR LCG worth your money.

The game resets itself all the time. (That sentence seems wishy-washy: The game resets itself everytime you win or lose an adventure and start it or another one over.) I always think to myself that I have to win a level a bunch of times with the same deck in order to consider that I've gotten it down. Otherwise, it could just be flukish card draws.
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Sigrdrifa wrote:
The people who get done with an adventure like Baldur's Gate or Skyrim and immediately ask themselves, "Ok, I just beat it as a Human Paladin, I wonder if I could beat this game as a Half-Dwarvish/Half-orcish, lawful-evil mage?"

off-topic but instant +1 for Baldurs Gate
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I think Jason summed up the two games perfectly.

I just looked at your profile. You are new, like me. I went on a buying spree last month, but so far have only really played LOTR and Pathfinder, so maybe my perspective will help.

Pathfinder - I love. I see can see why some people say it is repetitive, however, this is the game that gives me a somewhat similar experience to those 80s and 90s turn based cRPGS.

- Finding new items, weapons
- Leveling characters
- Spells, dice rolling...


LOTR - I really like this too, but it feels more like a puzzle you are trying to figure out. I do not have extensive LOTR lore, so that maybe contributing to my struggles. I will say that I think about this game more, when not playing, than I do Pathfinder.

They both have legs, for sure, I wouldn't worry so much about that. I think you will be happy either way, but I suggest Pathfinder first.
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One other note, in LotR, in the general quests feel somewhat isolated and or standalone. There is not a long lasting effect that happens to change your experience when you move on to the next quest in the series.

However, FFG is always playing with those rules and the structure of how quests work overall. In the beginning it's straight progressing through the stages of the quests. In later expansions, you start to encounter branching paths based on conditions or things like riddles, special checks, and other things. The gameplay has varied a lot.

Also, if you play through The Hobbit Sagas (which is what I'm working through now with my buddy), you can collect treasure that will persist with you throughout the Hobbit Saga. So, there is some impact, there, from quest to quest, but if you're looking for true character progression, I would lean more towards PACG.
 
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I have both and enjoy both for completely different reasons. Most of them have been discussed so I won't continue repeating what's been said.

PACG is easier and there's really not much deck management needed to complete the quests.

LoTR is more challenging and you will fail more. Outside of play, it's time consuming as you spend time trying to deck build the perfect deck that will carry you through the adventure.

PACG will carry you on its back and sing your adventuring praises. It'll hand you new shiny items and pat you on your back for doing a good job.

LoTR will trick you! It'll make you feel like you're going to make it, like you're the king of the world... then suddenly punch you in the stomach and repeatedly kick you in the side as you wallow in the ground.

My girlfriend and I like to rotate them at our table. Some nights we want the pain, some nights we want to win without thought. The biggest difference? When you win at LoTR, you really feel like you accomplished something fantastic.
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Reporting back:

Decided to get LotR, 3 of the First Cycle, Khazad-dûm & the whole cycle for it for starters
Also got 900 mayday sleeves & couple ultrapro deckboxes.

Im going to report back later, but for now i think i made the right choice.
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MrHarmaa wrote:
Reporting back:

Decided to get LotR, 3 of the First Cycle, Khazad-dûm & the whole cycle for it for starters
Also got 900 mayday sleeves & couple ultrapro deckboxes.

Im going to report back later, but for now i think i made the right choice.


Wow - that is a big heap. This will occupy you for some time.

Some hints for starting:

Don't shuffle together all the stuff at start. I would start only opening the base box (OK - I know you will open the other stuff and read the cards. But act as if you didn't.)

Play the first scenario (passage thtough mirkwood) with one of the pregenerated decks until you win. Repeat with the other decks until you won with each deck once (or feel really bored). Don't start with the tactics deck - it is the least universal one and relies the most on good card draw. So it can be quite frustrating as starting experience.

Play the second scenario (journey down the anduin) by combining two starter decks. Take the 2 decks you enjoyed most. Take 2 heroes from one deck and one hero from the other and shuffle together all the cards of both decks. (If you want you can already tweak it a bit: add in a third Gandalf, remove some cards of the sphere with only one hero.). Play it several times until you beat the scenario. Between plays you can adapt your deck by removing cards you consider weak or you can change out heros, perhaps adding a third sphere... The scenario can be a bit brutal but it is beatable only with the cards from the core box.

Don't play the third scenario (escape from Dol Guldur) solo. (If you want to play solo, play for 2 players). Designing a deck which has a good chance to beat the scenario solo is something for real experts! (and requires more cards)

include the expansions one by one. There are always interesting cards to build new decks with.
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