Dhiraj Pallin
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Just wondering if FFG are continuing to re-release cards mostly from old versions of Wiz-war or whether they're mostly going off on their own tangent now. For example, are the hexes from classic wiz-war, how about the curses? I noticed that Tom Jolly was not credited as a designer for the expansion. I ask because whilst Fantasy Flight are the kings of components, in my personal opinion they usually suck at creating rules and card effects etc. I.e. every original FFG game I've played has been dominated by card effects which are devoid of fun factor and novelty, and which have names and thematic text that only tenuously match the effects on the cards. That is, FFG's usual tact on creating a card for a game is to make up some arbitrary stat/skill/dice modifier, which is similar to every other card, and then tack on a seemingly random and irrelevant card title and thematic text, usually involving vague and extensively over-used words like 'chaos', 'corruption', 'honour'. They generally don't know how to create cards with tangible, thematically connected novelty factor like in the case of original Wiz-war. Also while I'm busy ranting, FFG are obsessed with flawed design concepts, such as adding in rules that add absolutely nothing to the game, but which require players to memorize lots of unimportant gibberish. For example, they love to add in 'movement cost' tables into games, which require players to memorize the movement points required to pick up items, exchange items, walk through doors, pick their nose, etc, etc. I can't see a noticable benefit from these rules.
 
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Eddie Ng
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But it's fun
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Dhiraj Pallin
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Ok my anti FFG vitreol may be distracting from my original question. I'd still like to know if they're mostly including cards similar or identical to original editions, or whether they're mostly making up their own.
 
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Eric Gilson
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I only see maybe 3-4 cards in the expansion which show up in classic Wiz-War. (Scourge, Terrify, & Random Energy) Essentially the entire expansion is new. The Flash Energy is brand new. And I actually like it as it forces more interaction and less movement boosts. The Hexes are all new, and again a nice addition. Only Boobytrap is like them in the old version. The one thing I dislike about the expansion is the random school. Rolling a die to add randomness seems forced. Wiz-War should be controlled chaos through interactions, not just chaos.

The BIG thing that this expansion is missing are the creatures. That was the addition in the 1st expansion to the old version. Sticks (essentially magic wands with charge equal to the energy card played with it) and Traps (cards that do bad thing when you draw them) are the other 2 themes missing from the 1st expansion of the old version.

I have to say that the expansion is actually a really nice addition. But it doesn't really touch on the classic Wiz-War design space. One thing that is really lacking in general are ways to manipulate the board like rotate sector. There are so many other space bending tricks in the old game. And honestly those are some of my favorite cards.
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Dhiraj Pallin
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It's funny they chose to include Scourge though. A card which is apparently from the original game, but which matches all of the criticisms I usually make about FFG cards.
 
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Eric Gilson
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Dhiraj wrote:
It's funny they chose to include Scourge though. A card which is apparently from the original game, but which matches all of the criticisms I usually make about FFG cards.


So I just double checked against the list of 5th edition cards. And I didn't see Scourge or an identical effect. The closest things are Sticks and Stones and Exploding Energy. So the design space is old, but the actual card is new.

Mechanically the new expansion is consistent with old Wiz-War and actually pushes some new design space. I'll agree that some of the themeing of the cards could be better. Also, there is some really classic design space they haven't touched. In particular, these "creatures" that are mentioned on the base set cards.
 
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Dhiraj Pallin
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Reading other posts here, creatures seem to be the most desired expansion item people keep hoping for. Strategically FFG might release them last, because at this stage they know people are buying the expansions for the extra player, and eventually people will have enough players and then they'll need some other lure.
 
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chris thatcher
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No idea on the card mix, but its a great game.

Cant wait for more expansions.
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Eric Gilson
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Dhiraj wrote:
Reading other posts here, creatures seem to be the most desired expansion item people keep hoping for. Strategically FFG might release them last, because at this stage they know people are buying the expansions for the extra player, and eventually people will have enough players and then they'll need some other lure.


I think people will be a little miffed if they only do creatures once. They are already mentioned on so many cards and are a popular old mechanic. Doing all the creatures in one deck of one expansion, like they did with stones, is a horrible way to use the design space.

If they were smart each deck would have 1-2 marque creatures. Democratic Monster would have been perfect for the Chaos deck. And Big Black Bat for the item deck in the base game.
 
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Dhiraj Pallin
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Hmmm, looking through the 5th edition cards, I think that they are not using _any_ cards from the old edition now. Scourge (Malefic Curses) is like a dumbed down version of Exploding Energy (from 5th edition) and Beguile, which is a _very_ dumbed down version of Hypnotize, but apart from that I can't see any matching cards. Looks like they've cut Mr Jolly out of the loop. So I'd be inclined to believe FFG will invent their own creatures when the time comes.

Some of the cards from Malefic Curses have slightly creative themes and mechanics:
Skull Servant, Cloak of Shadows, Counter Curse, Dispeleport, Chaos Claws and Hex of Teleportation.

Most are at FFG's usual uncreative standard:
Prismatic Storm, Prismatic Bolt, Yank!, Nevermind, Screaming Skull, Scourge, Wraith Strike, Enervate

Yawn!

I also agree that the Flash Energy cards are a decent idea.

I'm thinking now of getting the 5th/6th edition cards made up and just using the FFG components. Or perhaps making some kind of half-half deck, by scanning and reprinting the FFG cards onto similar card stock as the other cards.
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Eric Gilson
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Dhiraj wrote:

I'm thinking now of getting the 5th/6th edition cards made up and just using the FFG components. Or perhaps making some kind of half-half deck, by scanning and reprinting the FFG cards onto similar card stock as the other cards.


I recommend it. I just finished putting together my PnP copy of Ilya's Magic Stone redesign of 5th.
Base Tiles & Tokens
Base Set Cards
1st Expansion
2nd Expansion
Community+ Expansion
Auto-Warps
HP Markers
Quick Reference

The cards are essentially the same as what is on the Wiz-War website. There are a few minor differences (Buddy) and 3 cards missing (Clone, Thumb of God, Random's Card). Otherwise it is a very good quality graphical update of 5th edition. I just haven't found a nicely formatted rules set with some of the community alterations for the 5th edition. (Like the difference between LOS & LOM) The best is Kwanchai's Wiz War Redesign which Ilya's is based on. But even that is just a copy of the rules from the Wiz-War website.

I haven't gotten to the point of adding 8th edition cards to my set. Though I really like the Hexes and Flash Energy so will probably do so once I have had time to play with what I have and integrate the Community expansion into the official cards.
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Dhiraj Pallin
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So I emailed Tom Jolly, just to take up his valueble time. He says that he hasn't been cut out of the loop, and still reviews the cards in the expansions (and gets royalties from them.) He reckons that a lot of the cards from the original expansions should see similar versions make their way into 8th edition eventually, if FFG make enough expansions. Though it still seems strange to me that this expansion doesn't contain a single original card.

Thanks for the links Eric, I look forward to playing with all the original cards soon!
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