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Subject: Which sleeve company? rss

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Paul Brooks
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Hi,
All my Warhammer Invasion cards have been sleeved in Ultra Pro sleeves and I was about to buy a load of packs to start sleeving my new Netrunner purchase. I see however, that the FFG sleeves are apparently a slightly smaller size than the Ulta Pro. FFG sleeves are 63.5mm x 88mm compared to 66mm x 91mm for Ultra Pro. Does anyone have any experience of using both/either with FFG LCG products? To be honest the Ultra Pro sleeves felt snug enough for my Invasion cards so is the reduced size of the FFG sleeves a trimmer neater edge?

Cheers.
 
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brian
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Nautilus wrote:
Hi,
All my Warhammer Invasion cards have been sleeved in Ultra Pro sleeves and I was about to buy a load of packs to start sleeving my new Netrunner purchase. I see however, that the FFG sleeves are apparently a slightly smaller size than the Ulta Pro. FFG sleeves are 63.5mm x 88mm compared to 66mm x 91mm for Ultra Pro. Does anyone have any experience of using both/either with FFG LCG products? To be honest the Ultra Pro sleeves felt snug enough for my Invasion cards so is the reduced size of the FFG sleeves a trimmer neater edge?

Cheers.

I don't know about WI, but A:NR is a slightly smaller card than my LOTR game (which is technically the same size and also from FFG). So the tighter the sleeve, the better. Obviously an FFG product should work best with the FFG product.
 
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Ian Toltz
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I use FFG sleeves exclusively for when I want clear-backed sleeves (the vast majority of the time). There's not a big difference in width with FFG's sleeves vs. ultra pro's. FFG's sleeves are significantly longer, though (ultra pro tends to barely extend beyond the top of the card, while FFG extends several MM beyond the edge of the card.

I'm thinking the difference in measurements might be that one is measuring sleeve size and one is measuring the size of the cards they're intended to fit.

In my experience, FFG's sleeves tend to be a bit more consistent than Ultra pro's. Then again, FFG sleeves haven't been around nearly as long as Ultra Pro's have, so maybe in a couple years FFG's won't be the exact same as the ones they have now.
 
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Kyle Massey
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As a owner of both companies standard card sleeves, the reported size of the card sleeves aren't accurate, but they could be the card size length being reported as the poster above me said. They are longer than ultra pros but about the same width with FFG being a tiny bit wider.

Looking at my ruler Ultra pro length is 91mm and FFG is 94mm.
 
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David Stahler Jr.
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I started with FFG sleeves but am thinking about switching to Ultrapros because they're actually a better fit. FFG sleeves have about 3 mm of extra width, with 4 mm of extra length. Ultrapros are about the same width, but are 3 mm shorter.
 
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Brad McGown
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I would recommend using neither. I have everything I own sleeved in Mayday Premium sleeves and to me, they are far superior to any of the other brands. I have used them for all of my LCG collections, including Warhammer: Invasion, A Game of Thrones, The Lord of the Rings, and Netrunner.
 
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Ian Toltz
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I haven't used Mayday sleeves in many, many years, but I'd recommend anyone considering them to do some research on the company first.
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Karry L.
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I use KMC sleeves for all my FFG games and they fit perfectly even with double sleeves
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Brad McGown
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What research really needs to be done? I have bought well over 700 packs of the premium sleeves and have never had a problem, with the exception of the extremely rare defect that all of the sleeve companies encounter. I tried the other places in the beginning, and FFG's are always too long, and Ultra Pro was a little too inconsistent and snug. When it comes down to it, it is a personal preference. I just wanted to throw another great company's hat into the ring.


Asmor wrote:
I haven't used Mayday sleeves in many, many years, but I'd recommend anyone considering them to do some research on the company first.
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Jason Emerson
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bm_eagle wrote:
I would recommend using neither. I have everything I own sleeved in Mayday Premium sleeves and to me, they are far superior to any of the other brands. I have used them for all of my LCG collections, including Warhammer: Invasion, A Game of Thrones, The Lord of the Rings, and Netrunner.


You can't be serious. Mayday sleeves are the most inconsistently sized sleeves I've ever seen. I've had entire packs (more than a few) be unusable because they are too narrow, too short, cut at an angle etc. I've also had them be inconsistent lengths which is pretty terrible when you use two different packs to sleeve one game, and then half the deck is visibly different. I do find that when they do fit, they fit better than other brands, which is frustrating. For a game like Netrunner, I'd never consider them as I am continually adding new cards and a pack of sleeves I buy today is likely not going to be the same as one I buy next year (I've had this exact circumstance with Mayday when I sleeved an expansion with the exact same sleeves from a different manufacturing run and they were noticeably off). This might not bother you, but it does me. How hard is it to cut a piece of plastic to a certain length?

They replace them, eventually (I say eventually because I've had this happen and they didn't have stock to replace immediately). I've never had an FFG or KMC sleeve not fit. Ever. The only time I use Mayday now is when I need something oddly sized - they fit that niche nicely...but I sure wish someone else would give them some competition and hopefully force their quality control upward.

I have mine in FFG sleeves - agree that they are a bit long but I've gotten used to it, they're by far the best I've used. I like KMC sleeves as well but they can be pretty pricey. I don't like ultra pro soley for the hologram which I find annoying, but they are quality sleeves otherwise.
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Colin Thomas
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I've used mayday "premium" for a couple of games and was always disappointed by the quality, especially the quality control. When you gat a pack of Maydays, you have no idea how many will actually fit as there can be many defective ones. Compare that to UltraPro or Dragonshield where you know you will get at least (usually more) as many sleeves as is advertised on the package. Another benefit is the UltraPros shuffle much better than any clear sleeve I've ever used.

For me, I use FFG for most of my board games (I like seeing the card backs), UltraPro clears for some of the weirdly sized board games (I'm looking at you 7 Wonders), a few Maydays (b/c they are the only option) on the extremely unusual sizes (Duel of Ages characters), and UltraPro mattes for my LCGs.
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Brad McGown
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Are you guys using Penny sleeves or premiums? If you are talking about Penny sleeves, I can't comment on their quality. The premiums, however, are great. Like I said earlier, with over 35,000 sleeves ordered, I just don't see any of the issues you guys are talking about. To each their own, I guess.
 
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Jason Emerson
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I've used both. Premiums mostly but I do have Dominion sleeved with the standard ones and they are definitely even worse.

I haven't used Mayday in years because of my issues, only the odd sizes like I mentioned. Maybe they've gotten better?
 
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Kaiwen Zhang
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go for dragon shield or kmc. you will need very durable sleeves since you will be playing netrunner a lot
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Trent Hamm
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I am extremely partial to clear Dragon Shields for full sized cards (like Netrunner, etc.). They shuffle well and are nigh indestructible. I actually buy them in bulk because I tend to sleeve deckbuilding games in them.
 
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bm_eagle wrote:
Are you guys using Penny sleeves or premiums? If you are talking about Penny sleeves, I can't comment on their quality. The premiums, however, are great. Like I said earlier, with over 35,000 sleeves ordered, I just don't see any of the issues you guys are talking about. To each their own, I guess.


Almost exclusively Premiums. The oversize ones I use (Dixit sized) are from their Standard line, but there just isn't much selection for that size out there.
 
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If you want to make the investment, KMC Hyper Mattes (I have the Clears) are amazing. They shuffle amazingly well and I've had no durability issues to date.

If cost isn't an issue, I'd recommend those over anything.
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Daniel D
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I personally use Dragonshield, nigh-indestructible and I prefer solid-color sleeves.
 
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Ryan Lynn
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Dragon shields here too. I havent used a lot of sleeves, but I did sleeve ascension with Ultra Pro Matte and definitely prefer the dragon shields.
 
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Joe Held
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I'm kind of a sleeve nerd...so I feel like I can add some here too.

Mayday Regular. Stay Away! SO Inconsistent. I used to like these a lot because typically they were a tight fit...but it's almost impossible to find a pack that is identical, & the fit is larger now too.

Mayday Premium. These feel really good & seem to be pretty consistent. Nice & rigid.

UltraPro. Consistent, but too thick for me. When you have your deck down in the stack, one size is definitely "higher" than the other.

UltraPro ProFit. I like these a lot. Tight Fit & not too thick. Definitely not as durable as the KMC, DragonShield, UltraPro, Mayday Premium...but thicker than regular Mayday.

Fantasy Flight. Very similar to the Mayday Premium from what I've seen. Never had an extended period of time with both to say what is more durable.

DragonShield. Good thickness, reminds me of the UltraPros. Apparently durable as hell...but like the regular UltraPRos....too thick for my tastes/use.

KMC ProMatte. Like DragonShields to me.

KMC Perfect Size. These are what I personally use. They are very very similar to the UltraPro ProFits but just a tiny bit shorter on the length. Nice Tight Fit, but thinner too...so they're not the most durable. I've gone through over 1,000 of these from different batches, time periods, etc...& they have literally all been identically-sized. Typically they are used for "double-sleeving" things...but I just use them by themselves. Only come in clear. I'll do pile shuffles or criss-cross shuffling? Whatever that is called/combo. My buddy was able to do a riffle shuffle with these...but I imagine they wouldn't stand up to that regularly like his DragonShields do.

Cheers
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John Abbott
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I use the red & blue backed premium Mayday sleeves for all my Netrunner cards (3 core and all the data packs). Sure I've had the odd quality issue but no more than other mauf. They feel really great, easy to flick through and a nice snug fit.
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I've used both Ultra Pro Matte and FFG sleeves.

For Netrunner I prefer the Ultra Pro Matte sleeves. The finish appeals to me, and they're not too thick while at the same time providing sufficient protection for my cards. There's not a lot of overhang at the top which is really a personal preference thing.

I bought a bunch of packs a while ago, anticipating that I'd be replacing sleeves semi-regularly when they split, but I've yet to see a sleeve fail.

The FFG sleeves are also very nice, but as people have said there are a few extra mm at the top which some people dislike. However, they're thick, solid and provide a lot of protection.

tl,dr: For my board games I use FFG as they feel like they give better protection and the extra bulk tends not to worry me there, while for Netrunner (where I'm shuffling a lot and need to handle the cards regularly) I use the Ultra Pro Mattes as they're a bit slimmer and easier to handle/shuffle while still providing adequate protection.
 
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Matthew Guze
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I'll jump on the Pro Matte train. I used Deck Protectors for a while and bought some pro mattes on a whim and never looked back. I think they're the best value you can get for decent sleeves, since they're great sleeves that shuffle nicely, but they also don't cost an arm and a leg like Dragon Shields do. The hologram can annoy some people, but I haven't really found it to be too much of an issue.
 
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Alan Fluck
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johnald126 wrote:
If you want to make the investment, KMC Hyper Mattes (I have the Clears) are amazing. They shuffle amazingly well and I've had no durability issues to date.

If cost isn't an issue, I'd recommend those over anything.


Yep--I've tried a bunch of different brands and styles and nothing has come even close to the Hyper Mattes. They feel great in hand, they don't slip around, I haven't noticed any wear over several months of play, and they shuffle great.

If you buy them in bulk you can get them for $5.40/pack here:
http://www.potomacdist.com/detail.asp?itemid=kmchmtcdpb#.U0I...



 
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Brian H
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I haven't tried too many kinds, but I started with FFG clears for Netrunner and I'm happy with them. I've gone through almost 1000 of them and they're all consistent in terms of size and quality. I don't think I've ever had a bad sleeve.

Only complaint is that they are very slick when you first put them on, but after a bit of play they are perfectly fine. They are indeed a bit long as well, as others have noticed, but I've tried some Mayday standard sleeves and I felt they were a bit too short. Longer is better than shorter IMO.
 
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