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Subject: Valkyries Level 2 rss

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Nathan Dennis
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Can someone explain to me the level 2 ability of the Valkyrie .. "When questing, you can move a meeple out of a region and onto this card. (They may quest back)

I can't seem to wrap my head around what this means ..

Thx!
 
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Rainer Ahlfors
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Your faction card counts as a legal region/territory for questing. Weird, but simple as that.

Now, look at the level 5 ability.
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Nathan Dennis
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got it!!! Thank you!! I always seem to over think these things!
 
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Nathaniel Hobbes
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How the ability works is pretty clear, but I cannot see the point to it. It seems a waste of an ability, especially if you never get to level 5. Except for very rare circumstances where you cannot escape an opponent and go first in the turn order, it seems useless. Why would you give up the ability to gather resources or control the board for a payout that might come three magic levels later, but becomes that much less likely becuase you have fewer resources incoming? Also, it takes around three turns to have a proper setup for the level 5 power, again decreasing your ability to actually research level 5.

I might understand it better if there were an addendum such as "collect one resource of any type for every 2 meeples on your faction card."

Please let me know if I'm missing some obvious strategy for this magic power.
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Aaron White
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hobbesvii wrote:
How the ability works is pretty clear, but I cannot see the point to it. It seems a waste of an ability, especially if you never get to level 5. Except for very rare circumstances where you cannot escape an opponent and go first in the turn order, it seems useless. Why would you give up the ability to gather resources or control the board for a payout that might come three magic levels later, but becomes that much less likely becuase you have fewer resources incoming? Also, it takes around three turns to have a proper setup for the level 5 power, again decreasing your ability to actually research level 5.

I might understand it better if there were an addendum such as "collect one resource of any type for every 2 meeples on your faction card."

Please let me know if I'm missing some obvious strategy for this magic power.


I do not think this is something you would use immediately at level 2. It sounds more likely that you would do this at level 4 when you are in a position to complete level 5. This means they can do little to stop your strategy.

Edit: A less common use of this ability would be to quest your meeples
off the map if you have no resources and are going to be attacked. If you get to quest first you can evacuate to your card and then bring them back next time quest is available. This prevents you losing meeples and having to repopulate.
 
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Greg Gresik
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I do agree with Nathaniel - the level 2 power seems odd at best, and actually seems to hurt more than assist at worst (if actually used). The only thing I can think of is that the level 3 power seems VERY strong (making all opponents discard 3 resources...making up for the ones you missed out on - and then some). Also, level 4 allows you to "auto-win" a war - then perhaps use quest to plop into the region you just won in.

Perhaps the thinking behind the design is that level 2 itself is not that great...unless you quickly move through to 3 and 4. So the balance is not in the single power (like many other cards) - but a "small sacrifice now for a greater reward later"-type thing.

I would be very wary of playing the Valk's against elves and dark elves though - too much demand for manna.

 
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Nathaniel Hobbes
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I really like the "mountain fortress" idea the designer was going for, but I just don't think it works. I think the level 3 and 4 powers are pretty powerful, despite my general dislike for one-time-use powers.

I think there might be a better way to do it, though. Maybe you could patrol or quest into crags, but then you could only collect 1 ore if you had 2 meeples in one crags region. You'd slow down your resource production and ability to attack others in exchange for being effectively invincible as long as you turtle, so that might be too powerful. Also, I feel like the Valkyries, not Shapeshifters, should have the level 5 condition of a bonus VP for every 2 regions next to crags.

Going off topic for level 2, for level 3, I'd like an ability that once per round when collecting resources, you can choose a resource of any type adjacent to a region you control instead of the type produced by that region.
 
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Chino Bambino
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Could you move meeples from yours adversaries?
 
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Rainer Ahlfors
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Not unless there is an ability that states so specifically.
 
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Aaron White
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Emowhore wrote:
Could you move meeples from yours adversaries?


Quick, someone do an alien greys faction that abducts meeple onto their base.
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Greg Gresik
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GalaGalaxia wrote:
Not unless there is an ability that states so specifically.

I think his question is that the text just says "a" not "your". I think the OP's question is asking if the level 2 ability allows the Valk's to remove an opponents meeple. That clearly cannot be the case though, as that would break the game.
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Rainer Ahlfors
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Nikoms wrote:
GalaGalaxia wrote:
Not unless there is an ability that states so specifically.

I think his question is that the text just says "a" not "your". I think the OP's question is asking if the level 2 ability allows the Valk's to remove an opponents meeple. That clearly cannot be the case though, as that would break the game.


Right, but it does not need to say "your" when it merely modifies how questing already works. When questing, you can move one of your meeples from a region bordering the edge of your territory. Now, you can simply count your faction card as a legal region/territory for questing. All other questing rules remain the same.
 
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Kim Fjeld
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I played Valkyries today and I ran into a lot of trouble with the timing of the tech tree. Initially there was no clear strategy logic that sprang into my mind when I studied the faction card.

I would describe the "one-time" tech situational at best. Their disposable nature and mana commitment would be easier to justify if you could choose when you wanted to active the effect - kind of like how you place a counter in Panamax on actions you haven't yet triggered on your player card. The current tech tree require you to stockpile a lot of mana in order to be prepared in the event you should want to access the singular benefit from the level 3 or 4 techs. However that also require that you to have access to the Research Action at that exact, opportune moment in time. And the resources. And interracial stability.

Another issue is that while you stockpile Mana to go all the way on the Magic track, you also need a continuous flow of food to get out those meeples in order to take full advantage of the level 5 bonus scoring. Those two commitments push you out of the tower game. However, if you choose to ignore the tech altogether, you must go for the Tower build, otherwise you lose too many points across the board. And don't forget those who sniff out any of these plans and come after those precious resources - and your meeples!

There is a lot of if's when playing as Valkyries. This characteristic can make them extremely powerful, but I prefer some general utility over exceptional, but situational powers.

In total I would say Valkyries are reactionary - which is good - but vulnerable to skews in timing - which is bad. A Valkyrie left alone is not advisable, but a destabilized Valkyrie is effectively taken out of the game by it's own default.
 
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Rainer Ahlfors
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pocoloco wrote:
I played Valkyries today and I ran into a lot of trouble because the tech tree is felt awkwardly balanced. There was no pure strategy logic that sprang into my mind.

I would describe the "one-time" tech situational at best. Their disposable nature and mana commitment would be easier to justify if you could choose when you wanted to active the effect - kind of like how you place a counter in Panamax on actions you haven't yet triggered. The current tech tree require you to stockpile a lot of mana in order to be prepared in the event you should want to access the singular benefit from the level 3 or 4 techs. However that also require that you to have access to the Research Action at that exact, opportune moment in time. And the resources. And interracial stability.

Another issue is that while you stockpile Mana to go all the way, you also need a continuous flow of food to get out those meeples in order to take full Advantage of the level 5 bonus scoring. Those two commitments push you out of the tower game. However, if you choose to ignore the tech altogether, you must go for the Tower build, otherwise you lose too many points across the board. And don't forget those who sniff out any of these plans and come after those precious resources - and your meeples!

There is a lot of if's when playing as Valkyries. This characteristic can make them extremely powerful, but I'd like some general utility over exceptional, but situational powers.


The valkyries are an advanced faction and is not easy to win with.
 
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Kim Fjeld
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pocoloco wrote:
GalaGalaxia wrote:
pocoloco wrote:
I played Valkyries today(...)


The valkyries are an advanced faction and is not easy to win with.


In total I would say Valkyries are reactionary - which is good - but vulnerable to skews in timing - which is bad. A Valkyrie left alone is not advisable, but a destabilized Valkyrie is effectively taken out of the game by it's own default.


Thus your description of Valkyries as "advanced" fit the bill pretty well. I'm do not insist they are inherently bad; they are, just as you point to, difficult to master.
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Shane Brewer
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So just to be clear...if you have attained level 2....when you Quest you EITHER Quest with one of your meeples or grab someone elses meeple and put it on the card. Not both.
 
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Byron S
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DrBrewhaha wrote:
So just to be clear...if you have attained level 2....when you Quest you EITHER Quest with one of your meeples or grab someone elses meeple and put it on the card. Not both.

No, you Quest one of your meeples, and it has the option of moving to your card instead of another map tile.
 
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Carlos Pérez Cantalapiedra
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I think it would be more balanced if valkiries within the faction card would not count towards food waste when expanding.

Another question it is not clearly stated in the rules is whether the valkiries have to go back from the faction card to the same region or they can be moved to any space in any map card, as if exploring.
 
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Michael Coe
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urkary wrote:
I think it would be more balanced if valkiries within the faction card would not count towards food waste when expanding.

Another question it is not clearly stated in the rules is whether the valkiries have to go back from the faction card to the same region or they can be moved to any space in any map card, as if exploring.


Good point, they can move to any legal region. They do not have to return to the same one from which they came.

Thanks.
 
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