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Silent Victory: U.S. Submarines in the Pacific, 1941-45» Forums » General

Subject: A Pacific feel rss

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Foster Caldaroni
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I hope this game will have a Pacific feel to it, and won't just be the hunters with different counters and shipping targets.

I hope it captures the feel of the Pacific underwater war.
 
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Andrew Swan
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What kinds of things would it have (or not have) in order to do that?
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Chick Lewis
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"Men choose as their prophets those who tell them that their hopes are true." - Lord Dunsany

Brian, you might read the designer's and publisher's comments in the linked thread, and be encouraged.

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1128215/im-afraid-it-will-be...

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John Kranz
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I'm pretty sure Greg had posted somewhere about differences in SILENT VICTORY, but I'm not finding it very quickly so it's probably best to have him respond. I know there are obvious changes in terms of Sub classes, new weaponry, new patrol assignment and many more special mission types, etc. There is also new components to combat -- escorts and regular battle ships can now be engaged, including sub-to-sub combat. Circular torpedo runs and all new random events mapping to the campaign are provided as well, of course.

I'll ping Gregory as he can best chime in with specific changes made to highlight some of the differences in how it focuses on Pacific campaign.
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Chris Montgomery
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Torpedoes. Another would be torpedo improvements. Early in the war, U.S. torpedoes, well, sucked. Full of duds and misses. It wasn't until reports started coming back at how badly those torpedoes sucked that the Navy actually put different technology into use. There are two fixes for that: (1) have torpedoes be at a crappy rating at start, then on a certain date they magically get better, or (my preferred) (2) have a technology roll at the end of each patrol that moves the "improved torpedoes" marker forward along boxes until it reaches the end. This latter will add some unpredictability to the game, in a fun way.

Survival. Survival to the end of the campaign should be much easier, with more focus on how many tons you can sink rather than a super-high fear of being sunk. So escort mods, annual escort bonuses, etc., might be tinkered with.

Tonnage. Unlike the Atlantic, the U.S. submarine war actually reduced the number of Japanese merchantmen and convoys - so perhaps locating convoys in 1945 might be harder.

I'm no scholar, but these seemed relevant.
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Gregory Smith
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bob597 wrote:
I will start.

German U-boat losses (does not include end of war scuttlings)
From http://uboat.net/fates/losses/

Total 766 out of about 1154, 66% loss rate.[/c]

US Submarine losses (all causes)
From "United States Submarine Operations in World War 2," Theodore Roscoe

Total 52 out of about 288, 18% loss rate.[/c]



Heya,
I've gone into some length already on the various differences, and yes, I'm fully aware the U.S. Subs had nowhere near the fatality rate of the German boats. Of course the Germans had 4 x as many subs too. Would the U.S. losses been 200+ had we built 1000? Hard to say. But the main factors there was US airpower and the general overall increasing lethality of the Allied ASW effort. (Better and more sonars, radars, hedgehogs, experience you name it.)

Accordingly, the lethality of Japanese air (and the mere chance of meeting it) has been toned down significantly in SV. There ARE modifiers for 1945....not as much to kill then, a good proportion of targets have been sunk by then. Etc. But yes I'm taking all of that into account.

Probably the main feeling SV will have, as a difference, is that you're fighting the whole Japanese navy and not just the merchants. You're shooting escorts (if you wish) and lots of warship targets. More capital ships, and oh by the way, some of them are getting a defensive modifier because they're moving at 28+ knots. There's Sub vs. Sub action possible. There's a lot of different special missions, as happened historically. And yes, there are still duds. Oh yeah, and minefields SJ and SD radars.....NAC bubblemakers. Just a lot of things.

Right now the testers are getting -reasonably- historical results, although I think I need to tweak the encounter charts slightly yet.

Anyway, more listings of differences are in the other thread here.

Does it still have the "Look and feel" of The Hunters? Yes, and I strongly feel it should. However it does have some significant differences and I think players will see the historical reasons for them and appreciate them.

Hope that makes sense,
Greg
Game Designer.
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Ryan Pelkey
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Transit times were immensely longer, but I'm not sure how you would incorporate it at this scale. The Fleet Boat probably has a greater ability for self-repair and overall self sufficiency, and a deeper "bench" for casualty replacement.

Target density many times lower, with the possibility of multiple patrols with no viable targets. Greater opportunity for friendly fire, both against the boat and and the boat mis-identifying friendlies or neutrals. (USS Spadefish sinking a Soviet liner, for one example).

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Jonathan "Spartan Spawn, Sworn, Raised for Warring!"
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Atomlad wrote:
Greater opportunity for friendly fire, both against the boat and and the boat mis-identifying friendlies or neutrals. (USS Spadefish sinking a Soviet liner, for one example).


I just read about the USS Seawolf being accidentally sunk by an aircraft from the CVE Midway and thought this rare occurrence might make for an interesting roll result on the Random Events table, somewhat akin to losing your Captain in The Hunters. It would suck but one of those historical flavor items.
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Dennis Canning
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I think 2014 in solitaire games will have a Pacific feel with Silent Victory from Consim Press/GMT, Fleet Commander: Nimitz from DVG, and Fall of a Fortress: Corregidor from Legion Games.

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Ryan
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game_boy wrote:
What kinds of things would it have (or not have) in order to do that?

Add the JANAC commission to the end game evaluation. This would randomly modify your sub commander's career tonnage and ship numbers downward (in almost all instances).

It would be frustrating and give it an authentic Pacific (post war) feel.

Could also address the concern expressed in this thread. Think you did well? See how well you did after the JANAC report squashes your numbers!

*Written with a moderate degree of facetiousness.
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Nigel Hodge
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Ryanmobile wrote:
game_boy wrote:
What kinds of things would it have (or not have) in order to do that?

Add the JANAC commission to the end game evaluation. This would randomly modify your sub commander's career tonnage and ship numbers downward (in almost all instances).

It would be frustrating and give it an authentic Pacific (post war) feel.

Could also address the concern expressed in this thread. Think you did well? See how well you did after the JANAC report squashes your numbers!

*Written with a moderate degree of facetiousness. :D


Now that's a really good idea. It shouldn't be too difficult to incorporate as an optional rule.
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