Recommend
5 
 Thumb up
 Hide
21 Posts

Doomtown: Reloaded» Forums » General

Subject: A Cheatin' card spoiled rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Sean Geraghty
Ireland
Kilkenny
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
http://dbzer0.com/blog/how-i-got-involved-in-the-design-poss...
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Davido
United States
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
For those not following on Facebook, this appears to continue the 'scalability' of effects revealed by B&B attorneys. Coachwhip (the spoiled card) has the following effects:

1) lowball - boot a dude
2) shootout - ace a dude

3) 'reward' - if YOUR hand is legal, YOU control who gets booted/aced.

This remains a common complaint in classic DT - "Lowball I just draw 5 cards, so I can't control my 5 cards". Standard retort: DON'T Cheat or over-stack your deck and that's the risk/reward etc. etc.

Now with Coachwhip (an apparent play on the old Snakebite which aced a dude no matter what), there is a minor penalty for lowball cheatin' but a stiffer one for shootouts where the player DOES have control over the risk (suffer Cheatin' consequences) vs. Reward (better draw hands to ace more dudes or suffer fewer losses) plus offering a real benefit to 'staying legal' yourself. Me likey lots

Oh, and having Mr. OCTGN onboard can only be a good thing. jes' sayin'
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
August Larson
United States
Sandy
Utah
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Am I correct in assuming that booting a dude is essentially tapping? And what does it mean to ace a dude?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ryan Hackel
United States
Falls Church
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
colmustard21 wrote:
Am I correct in assuming that booting a dude is essentially tapping? And what does it mean to ace a dude?

In Magicspeak, booting=tapping and aced=destroyed.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sean Geraghty
Ireland
Kilkenny
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
colmustard21 wrote:
Am I correct in assuming that booting a dude is essentially tapping? And what does it mean to ace a dude?


Yes, booting is essentially tapping. Ace/Acing is defeat/destroy/kill/ (send to boot hill).
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric Jome
United States
Franklin
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mb
colmustard21 wrote:
Am I correct in assuming that booting a dude is essentially tapping? And what does it mean to ace a dude?


Yes. Boot is the term Doomtown uses in place of tap. A Booted Dude is limited in what it can or can't do - generally, a Booted Dude cannot move to another location nor can they Call Out another Dude. A Booted Dude is still in play, still provides Influence, but cannot refuse a Call Out from another Dude.

Ace is the game's term for "exile" if you're current with Magic lingo. It means the card is placed in Boot Hill, a special discard pile that is not reshuffled into the deck when you run through your cards and need to draw more. Thematically, such cards are seen as "dead" - a Dude has died or a Goods is broken or spent. Very rarely things can come from Boot Hill and re-enter play or your deck - it's usually a magical effect thematically, a Dude rising from the grave to avenge his own murder for example.

The most common cause of Acing is losing a round of a shootout. If your hand rank is 7 and mine is 5, I suffer the difference in casualties; that would be 2 here of course. Dudes in my posse must be used to soak up those casualties if I can't find some other way and this usually moves them off to Boot Hill. Out of play. My Influence in play goes down. And you might win by having more Control than I have Influence.

So, Acing a Dude, especially of your choice, is a powerful effect.

Still, this Cheatin' card doesn't help you win the shootout overall. If I have a Cheatin' Five of a Kind before you play it, I still have a Cheatin' Five of a Kind after you do. You Ace one of mine... but if you have a Full House, you're taking 3 casualties anyway.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric Jome
United States
Franklin
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mb
cerulean wrote:
In Magicspeak, booting=tapping and aced=destroyed.


Acing in Doomtown has traditionally been more like Exile in Magic - removed from the game. Magic has many more cards and strategies to get cards from the discard pile; they often return. Doomtown has a similar discard pile too.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Konstantinos Thoukydidis
Luxembourg
Esch-sur-Alzette
Luxembourg
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
cosine wrote:


Still, this Cheatin' card doesn't help you win the shootout overall. If I have a Cheatin' Five of a Kind before you play it, I still have a Cheatin' Five of a Kind after you do. You Ace one of mine... but if you have a Full House, you're taking 3 casualties anyway.


With one exception, if you have only 1 dude in your posse and I kill them with snakebite, I don't have to take any casualties.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Davido
United States
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
colmustard21 wrote:
Am I correct in assuming that booting a dude is essentially tapping? And what does it mean to ace a dude?


My standard teaching spiel to describe booting:

"The term we use to indicate that we rotate the card 90 degrees to demonstrate that we have used or can not further use its ability until the end of the turn/game day so that Wizards of the Coast can't sue our arses for using a patented mechanic is "Boot" "

I can now recite the above in 5 seconds flat
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
B.D. Flory
United States
New York
flag msg tools
Like the scalability, but otherwise not a fan. It's a weak snakebite with a lowball ability added on.

Hopefully, we get some cheatin' cards with more bite.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Boeren
United States
Marietta
Georgia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Until the rules are up on April 16th, it's still possible that there is a built-in rule to discourage cheating which means this card could be an additional penalty on top of that.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric Steiger
United States
Lakewood
Ohio
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
davido wrote:

"The term we use to indicate that we rotate the card 90 degrees to demonstrate that we have used or can not further use its ability until the end of the turn/game day so that Wizards of the Coast can't sue our arses for using a patented mechanic is "Boot" "


Close, but nope. "We", like everybody else who turned a card sideways to indicate it's been used, paid Wizards a licensing fee for use of the patented mechanic. Patents don't care about names; they care about use & processes. "Tapping" a card is a Wizards trademark, and it doesn't matter what you use it to mean; if it's likely that someone will confuse it with Magic, then you're in trouble.

BTW, the patent on turning a card sideways expires on June 22 of this year, so as long as you don't call it tapping, you won't owe Wizards anything for doing it.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Davido
United States
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
PlayroomEJS wrote:
davido wrote:

"The term we use to indicate that we rotate the card 90 degrees to demonstrate that we have used or can not further use its ability until the end of the turn/game day so that Wizards of the Coast can't sue our arses for using a patented mechanic is "Boot" "


Close, but nope. "We", like everybody else who turned a card sideways to indicate it's been used, paid Wizards a licensing fee for use of the patented mechanic. Patents don't care about names; they care about use & processes. "Tapping" a card is a Wizards trademark, and it doesn't matter what you use it to mean; if it's likely that someone will confuse it with Magic, then you're in trouble.

BTW, the patent on turning a card sideways expires on June 22 of this year, so as long as you don't call it tapping, you won't owe Wizards anything for doing it.


IANAL and all that, but good to know and herefore and forever, I will call this "Lollylagging" just 'coz I can. Back to our regularly scheduled thread
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric Jome
United States
Franklin
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mb
bd flory wrote:
It's a weak snakebite with a lowball ability added on.


Seems better than Snakebite to me.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
B.D. Flory
United States
New York
flag msg tools
cosine wrote:
bd flory wrote:
It's a weak snakebite with a lowball ability added on.


Seems better than Snakebite to me.


I agree -- the fact that it can hit a cheatin' lowball hand gives it more utility than snakebite. I should've been more clear that the removal ability specifically is weaker than snakebite.

On balance, the card is a bit better than snakebite, both because you can play it in lowball, and because you have the option to boot a dude regardless of whether your opponent puts him in the shootout, potentially turning the tide of a late game chess match. In most circumstances, though, it'll only be an inconvenience -- it'd be stronger if it could ace a dude outside of a shootout, but that doesn't appear to be the case from the text.

Obviously, also, this card's playability depends on the rest of the cheatin' cards (and 4s, and etc.) in the box.

My main concern with cheatin' cards right now, though, is the overall meta. If all the cheatin' cards are of this caliber, I'm not convinced that just building the tightest possible shooter and playing through cheatin' cards won't be the best way to go, just as it was pre-jackelope.

We'll see what the rest of the card pool holds.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
B.D. Flory
United States
New York
flag msg tools
Interesting to note that this card doesn't have the "one cheatin' card per draw" clause that appeared on each cheatin' card in the original run.

Curious to see if that's because the limit's been rescinded, or included in the rulebook rather than on the cards.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Todd Holland
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
davido wrote:
For those not following on Facebook, this appears to continue the 'scalability' of effects revealed by B&B attorneys. Coachwhip (the spoiled card) has the following effects:

1) lowball - boot a dude
2) shootout - ace a dude

3) 'reward' - if YOUR hand is legal, YOU control who gets booted/aced.

This remains a common complaint in classic DT - "Lowball I just draw 5 cards, so I can't control my 5 cards". Standard retort: DON'T Cheat or over-stack your deck and that's the risk/reward etc. etc.

Now with Coachwhip (an apparent play on the old Snakebite which aced a dude no matter what), there is a minor penalty for lowball cheatin' but a stiffer one for shootouts where the player DOES have control over the risk (suffer Cheatin' consequences) vs. Reward (better draw hands to ace more dudes or suffer fewer losses) plus offering a real benefit to 'staying legal' yourself. Me likey lots :D

Oh, and having Mr. OCTGN onboard can only be a good thing. jes' sayin' ;)


I tried finding the facebook page and can't. Is there a link?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
B.D. Flory
United States
New York
flag msg tools
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DoomtownCCG/
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Luke Stirling
Norway
Trondheim
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
bd flory wrote:

"You must log in to continue"

No thank you! Who puts promotional material for a product behind a log-in only wall?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
B.D. Flory
United States
New York
flag msg tools
It's a fan group. AEG doesn't control it.

They do occasionally post material there, but it filters out pretty quickly, and (unless I missed something) AEG's made no request to keep it inside the group, as I believe they once did with official clan page spoilers for L5R (do they still do this? do official clan pages even still exist?).

At any rate, it's a relatively concentrated population of Doomtown fans. They'd be fools to ignore it.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Konstantinos Thoukydidis
Luxembourg
Esch-sur-Alzette
Luxembourg
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
paralipsis wrote:
bd flory wrote:

"You must log in to continue"

No thank you! Who puts promotional material for a product behind a log-in only wall?


Well, my original blog post is available in general and linked on top of this thread
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.