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Subject: Crushing wall Trap rss

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George Leoniak
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This seems just as bad as the rolling boulder trap.

Heroes have to disarm the trap in 2 locations. Move normally and it is likely you raise your AP by 1. Move aggressively it automatically raises by 2.

to get to the trap disarm location you have to a least use an aggressive move to then attempt the disarm roll. Blink is probably the best option to get into range. Falling the TN roll will mean certain death.

When the AP reach 6 the wall closes and any heroes are crushed.

Really how is this possible with 4 or more players?

Am I missing something?

Someone if not all are going to get squished. I have not tried it yet, but reading it sounds impossible.

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Remi Bureau
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I think your best bet is to try and disarm the trap. If everyone moves theirnormal move, worst case AP is at 4 at the end of the cycle.
Then, on the following cycle, at least 2 heroes have a chance to disarm before it can trigger, and even if one fails, odds are you'll have at least one more chance before it reaches 6 (you'll probably succeed one roll when AP is between 4-6)
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Erik Webb
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Why would you try and send all 4 Heroes to disarm it? Keep 2 back and have them not move, and they wont raise the AP. AP is only raised if the Heroes attempt to move.

 
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Jeremy Steward
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Yah, in a 4+ group you have to disarm. You could only send 2 heroes in, all 4 in, or a hybrid of 2 full moving and 2 cautious moving. (Actually thinking last option is best)

I would still recommend a loitering variant such as trap AP counts towards loitering penalties. (I plan on ditching loitering all together in favor of a couple of rules that better accomplish the intent of the loitering rule.)
 
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Eric Johnson
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Deadwolf wrote:
Yah, in a 4+ group you have to disarm. You could only send 2 heroes in, all 4 in, or a hybrid of 2 full moving and 2 cautious moving. (Actually thinking last option is best)

I would still recommend a loitering variant such as trap AP counts towards loitering penalties. (I plan on ditching loitering all together in favor of a couple of rules that better accomplish the intent of the loitering rule.)


post em up when you figure it out, I'd love to see your house rules.
 
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Jeremy Steward
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I posted this in another topic but i cant find it atm

What i am currently thinking is this:

-Loitering penalty does not trigger if heroes spend 0 AP in a HC.
-If the AP track did not increase during the HC, it increases by 1 in the refresh phase (in addition to monster AP).
-When a tile is clear, players not on the edge of the tile bordering the new tile must use their full MP (which is doubled) to move towards the edge. If all players are either on the edge or in the new tile, players must move into the new tile. Failure to do so incurs loitering.
 
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Jarad Bond
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This is almost exactly how I'm playing it now, Jeremy, and seems to be a much cleaner game.

The one difference here is that when a tile is cleared, everyone finishes the current HC and Refresh Phase and then we pick up the heroes and place them just outside the edge of the new tile (which is what you end up doing anyway, just without the mechanical drudgery). You can even remove the previous tile and just put the heroes right on the table next to the new tile to save space, since everyone goes in on their next move.

----

I personally go one step further with treasure - we remove one treasure from the darkness board (or the tile if the board is empty) every turn to give heroes incentive to dive into the battle (so, if you wait too long, the treasure will be all gone). However, we give a bonus 1-3 treasures depending on the size of the tile, and one for every lair present, so that you have a fair chance of getting most or all of the treasure. And we let heroes automatically collect all the treasure dropped on the tile if you clear the board.

It works ok, but we still don't have a lot of incentive to pick up the treasure during battle. Of course, with loitering, you didn't have a lot either - you just ended up prolonging the battle with one minion left.

 
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Mike
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I think you are just checking the AP value during the Refresh Phase when Traps activate. Having the AP at 6 during the Hero Cycle should not cause the trap to spring since you only check for traps doing their thing in the Refresh. I could be wrong, but that is how we are playing it and it is interesting. You have to plan out where you are AP wise when you get ready for the Refresh. A lack of planning can be a killer... literally.
 
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Jarad Bond
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It is an interesting take on things. The rules are... again... conflicting here.

I do remember that you're supposed to check traps and quests and such in the Refresh phase. But that doesn't make a lot of sense to me, the way these traps are written.

If you're checking in the Refresh phase, there is a very high chance that AP is actually pretty low. Technically speaking, if we roll-over the AP meter in the HC, the trap will never activate. I'm sure that nowhere in the rules does it state that the trap "remembers" that it should spring if it ever reached AP 6, but not until the Refresh phase. Although, I can see how we should interpret it that way, assuming that's what the designers intended.

Unfortunately, nobody has raised this particular insight until now, so I doubt it'll make the Official FAQ. Let's hope they listen to our comments this time and we will have a chance to get this cleared up after the FAQ is posted.
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Charlie Theel
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logris wrote:
It is an interesting take on things. The rules are... again... conflicting here.

I do remember that you're supposed to check traps and quests and such in the Refresh phase. But that doesn't make a lot of sense to me, the way these traps are written.

If you're checking in the Refresh phase, there is a very high chance that AP is actually pretty low. Technically speaking, if we roll-over the AP meter in the HC, the trap will never activate. I'm sure that nowhere in the rules does it state that the trap "remembers" that it should spring if it ever reached AP 6, but not until the Refresh phase. Although, I can see how we should interpret it that way, assuming that's what the designers intended.

Unfortunately, nobody has raised this particular insight until now, so I doubt it'll make the Official FAQ. Let's hope they listen to our comments this time and we will have a chance to get this cleared up after the FAQ is posted.


Can someone with an account on the official forums ask this?
 
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Jarad Bond
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I can't right now - I will ask on the official forums later on tonight (AK time) if nobody else does.
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George Leoniak
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logris wrote:
It is an interesting take on things. The rules are... again... conflicting here.

I do remember that you're supposed to check traps and quests and such in the Refresh phase. But that doesn't make a lot of sense to me, the way these traps are written.

If you're checking in the Refresh phase, there is a very high chance that AP is actually pretty low. Technically speaking, if we roll-over the AP meter in the HC, the trap will never activate. I'm sure that nowhere in the rules does it state that the trap "remembers" that it should spring if it ever reached AP 6, but not until the Refresh phase. Although, I can see how we should interpret it that way, assuming that's what the designers intended.

Unfortunately, nobody has raised this particular insight until now, so I doubt it'll make the Official FAQ. Let's hope they listen to our comments this time and we will have a chance to get this cleared up after the FAQ is posted.


This is mind boggling. Since the way Crushing wall and boulder trap are written in the rulebook makes it seem like the trap activates when when you hit ap 3 and then triggers at AP 6.

With what you're saying, as long as you make it to the refresh phase and your AP is not at 3 or 6, then nothing happens even if you went through 2 darkness cycles.

1. Do traps like crushing walls, rolling boulder, and floor spikes activate during the hero cycle when the AP is reached?

Or

2. Do they activate in the refresh phase only when the AP is at the correct AP number for activation?

Or

3. Do they activate in refresh phase and remember that AP bench marks were crossed during the Hero cycle.

I have been playing with the assumption of #1, because of the way the traps are written, but playing it that way does not actually make sense with the rules, since traps are activated during the refresh phase.

Another conundrum.
 
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Jarad Bond
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Yeah, for the record, I don't really think you can skip the trap with careful planning of the AP. I would say #1 is most likely, but there's enough sense in #3 that Megacon possibly may have wanted it to be that way, but explained things poorly.

I've been playing it #1 as well.

Now that I think about it a little bit, I think the section in Refresh phase where traps "activate" really means that's when they do their thing. You move boulders up, or ceilings fall, etc... only during the Refresh, and only if the trap is active. But the trap "becomes active" as soon as the AP hits its mark.

This might just be the same problem they had with using "activate" vs. "active" terminology for monsters.

Edit: I asked in the FAQ forum and hopefully we'll hear from them Thurs.

http://megacongames.vanillaforums.com/discussion/377/officia...
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Mike
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Then you all will die before you can disarm it. My interpretation makes for interesting game play. Other interpretations make it unplayable in my view. That's probably why I've already played mine a ton while many people have had their copy on a shelf collecting dust.
 
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Jarad Bond
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LOL... well said, my friend.

We have been banning the darkness falls trap - it is broken as written (again, activating when it hits AP6 and not waiting until the refresh).

The boulder trap isn't too bad with 2p (my group size).

I haven't tried the crushing wall trap, but I read it over last night. It seems that only one or two heroes need to get through to disarm - and you only need to move up 1-2 spaces (I cannot remember) to get near the nodes to disarm. It seems like it's possible to complete. I will probably give it a test run-through tonight.
 
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Mathue Faulkner
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I created a Geeklist on Traps to gather a general consensus on balance, difficulty, and enjoyment:
http://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/173592/myth-traps

It appears that MCG is looking at the thread, so I think the more input we get, the better.



Comment from MERCSKenny on the Official Forums:
Quote:

I will be looking at the geeklist on BGG for traps, and comments here, when determining any tweaks that need to be made to the traps or the text.
 
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