Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
34 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Myth» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Why would you place a hunting pack with 5,6 or 8 monsters? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Brian M
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Argh! I realized the answer and decided to just delete the thread since I didn't figure it was of much interest to anyone else. Your answer showed up between my viewing it to make sure there were no answers and confirming the delete.

So, the original question was:

Place a pack of 3 for the minimum.
Place a pack of 4 to kill one set for a treasure drop and have one left to keep the treasure from vanishing.
Place a pack of 7 for two treasure drops and one left.

But why would you ever place 5,6 or 8? Quest condtions I suppose?

I realized the answer; you wouldn't on its own, but with other lairs in the area, you might want different numbers to add to a multiple of 3 (plus one).
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
T France
United States
Oakland
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
And then I deleted mine when I saw you deleted yours...before you posted again...
2 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian M
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Lol. OK, I'll just leave it now.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Erik Webb
United States
Edmonds
Washington
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Why must it always be multiple of 3+1? If you are just trying to game the system to maximize treasure drops I can see why your review was less than stellar.

I do not think I would enjoy the game as much as I do if all I was thinking about is maximising drops. The drops will come from natural flow of the game.



4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric Edgar
United States
New Jersey
flag msg tools
1) adjust difficulty level. When you start a new video game that has easy/medium/hard, do you always play on easy?

2)to scale the game

it feels like it should be included in the rules (ha) but others have asked how the game scales.
the heros don't 'level' but they gain better equipment and special status and so forth so i imagine the max mins as a way to challenge yourself more as you progress.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J Ry
United States
Florida
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I intend to roll 1d6+2 and let fate decide.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Culp
United States
Gillette
Wyoming
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
galagaew wrote:
Why must it always be multiple of 3+1? If you are just trying to game the system to maximize treasure drops I can see why your review was less than stellar.

I do not think I would enjoy the game as much as I do if all I was thinking about is maximising drops. The drops will come from natural flow of the game.





insults are not needed
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Walter Gagajewski
United States
Broken Arrow
Oklahoma
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
If you like to randomize things and are getting the kickstarter version with all the extra minions, you might check out the spreadsheet I put into the files. It allows you to randomly generate tiles to explore, the type of minions that come out and the number of minions.

I wanted kind of a Warhammer Quest feel on the days I just wanted to take whatever the game could throw at me.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jay Belt
United States
Lexington
Kentucky
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ropya wrote:
I intend to roll 1d6+2 and let fate decide.


The last game I played I just rolled 1d10 and picked the first number that fell within 3-8. I felt more comfortable with a "let fate decide" roll than the group deciding the number to place.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian M
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
galagaew wrote:
Why must it always be multiple of 3+1? If you are just trying to game the system to maximize treasure drops I can see why your review was less than stellar.

While I expected that some would have this response, this is baffling to me. This isn't trying to game the system, this IS the system. A major part of the strategy of the game seems to be deciding what the optimal setup and placement of monsters should be.

Quote:
1) adjust difficulty level. When you start a new video game that has easy/medium/hard, do you always play on easy?

You see, I think you see this as the equivalent of adding an extra Epidemic card to a game of Pandemic. To me, it seems like seeing that Moscow is about to have an outbreak and then spending your action to points to stroll over to Kolkatta and do nothing.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Judy Krauss
United States
Pittsburgh
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
but I'm not the only one
badge
My hands are small, I know, but they're not yours, they are my own
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Titeman wrote:
And then I deleted mine when I saw you deleted yours...before you posted again...


Thanks for the laugh, guys!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Drake Coker
United States
San Diego
California
flag msg tools
badge
This is my tank for Combat Commander
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
A major part of the strategy of the game seems to be deciding what the optimal setup and placement of monsters should be.


I think it depends more on your goals. If your goal is to defeat the monsters efficiently and with the most loot, then you are correct.

But, this is a game where you set your own goals. My goal is to make interesting challenges, so I'm not looking for optimal setups at all. I'm looking for "fun". I assume you are too, but perhaps we have different notions of what is fun.

3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonathan Patterson
United States
Calimesa
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
I'd argue that this game is about more than just optimizing treasure drops. Story telling is also an important aspect. Myth is in many ways an RPG-Board Game hybrid.

Setting that aside, hunting packs don't always appear on their own. If you were only adding one pack and your only goal is treasure optimization, I don't see any reason for anything other than 6 minions either. However, hunting packs aren't always alone. They can often appear with multiple packs or lairs. When you mix those elements, the optimal numbers can be more complex.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Erik Webb
United States
Edmonds
Washington
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
StormKnight wrote:
galagaew wrote:
Why must it always be multiple of 3+1? If you are just trying to game the system to maximize treasure drops I can see why your review was less than stellar.

While I expected that some would have this response, this is baffling to me. This isn't trying to game the system, this IS the system. A major part of the strategy of the game seems to be deciding what the optimal setup and placement of monsters should be.



To be clear I do not fault you for playing this way. Maybe I should not have used the phrase "gaming the system", as it is working within the framework provided. How you place the minions is all up to you. But you have also mentioned that you do not enjoy having to decide how to place monsters, and you would prefer the game decide it for you. If the game decided for you do you think it would place them optimally for you?

But just because the game gives you the freedom to optimize monster placement does not mean optimal placement "IS the System". Yes if you are trying to maximize treasure drops there is no reason to have a number that is not multiple of 3 with an extra 1 to kite at the end. And to YOU that "IS the System". Which is perfectly fine, the game gives you the freedom to play how you want to.

Just stating that I personally would not play towards optimal setup and placement of monsters, as that would take the fun out of it for me.



2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian M
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
But, this is a game where you set your own goals. My goal is to make interesting challenges, so I'm not looking for optimal setups at all. I'm looking for "fun". I assume you are too, but perhaps we have different notions of what is fun.

I'm looking for fun to. If "making good moves" makes a game not fun, there's something terribly, terribly, wrong with the game.

And I don't know what you mean by "set your own goals". You establish victory conditions at the start of a scenario, just like you do with any other game.

Quote:
Story telling is also an important aspect. Myth is in many ways an RPG-Board Game hybrid.

I don't see any story-telling or RPG in Myth at all! Yes, it's based on classic dungeon crawl RPGs, but it's a board-game through and through.

Quote:
But just because the game gives you the freedom to optimize monster placement does not mean optimal placement "IS the System".

Again, this sounds to me like "just because the game gives you the freedom to make good moves does not mean you need to make good moves".
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian M
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
(Yes, double post)

For the record, I get what you are doing (I think). When you setup monsters, you are playing as a 'GM' player rather than as a player. You are, in effect, playing both sides. You are saying "when placing, I am a GM player and I will make the decisions that I feel a GM would make" and then "when taking my hero cycle, I will play as a player".

I play games solo as both sides. When Lisa and I play Descent 2e with two players, we generally both control 2 heroes and we play them as optimally as we can as heroes. Then, one of us controls the OL's deck of cards and one controls the monsters and we also play them as optimally as we can as monsters. However, that is not a co-op game. That is kludging and playing on both sides. To me, one of the essential pieces of a co-op is that the game makes all the decisions of the enemy for you; you can feel free to make all of your decisions entirely as a player entirely with the intent of winning the game.

Since Myth has presented itself as a game in which setting up and choosing the monsters is a fundamental part of the gameplay itself, and it is a co-op game, I am trying to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that interesting choices and situations will result even if you make every choice from a standpoint of optimizing your chances at victory.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Miller

Columbus
Ohio
msg tools
Columbus, OH's best all '90s rock cover act: facebook.com/oddjobpolicy
badge
I can't believe your head exploded. If your head explodes, you'll never make it on BGG.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
StormKnight wrote:
If "making good moves" makes a game not fun, there's something terribly, terribly, wrong with the game.


This.

One of my biggest problems is there seem to be all these holes that allow you to break the game in certain ways and we have to invent artificial limits to things to stop us from making the best choices.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Drake Coker
United States
San Diego
California
flag msg tools
badge
This is my tank for Combat Commander
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
And I don't know what you mean by "set your own goals". You establish victory conditions at the start of a scenario, just like you do with any other game.


Good point, but not always true. I've mostly been playing "free-form" (or whatever the rules call it) where you just play until you are done playing. In this mode, making the encounters "interesting" is a reasonable goal!

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Norman Compton
United States
North Carolina
flag msg tools
I just reference the Myth Random Adventure spreadsheet in the files section for stuff like that.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Justin Colm
msg tools
mbmb
pinkymadigan wrote:
StormKnight wrote:
If "making good moves" makes a game not fun, there's something terribly, terribly, wrong with the game.


This.

One of my biggest problems is there seem to be all these holes that allow you to break the game in certain ways and we have to invent artificial limits to things to stop us from making the best choices.


Sorry, but I hate this attitude. One of the great things about this game that will get it to my table a lot is its versatility. If we want to play very tactically we can. If I'm playing with kids (which I often do) they can have fun choosing whatever monsters and tiles they want. How does facilitating the latter in any way make the game appear 'broken'? Sorry, that is such a one-eyed, professional board-gamer type of remark.

If I want to roleplay the game (personally I don't but so what?) then it's versatile enough to do that. If I want a short game I can just set up a tile and play a chapter quest and I can set the difficulty wherever I want it, just as I could with a computer game. If I want a longer game I can play an Act Quest. If we're not sure then we can play a few tiles, feel our way, until we decide we want the chapter quest finale. Most minis games normally require a certain time slot to be put aside... not this one. We can play for as long as we want. Brilliant feature.

If the group is finding the game too difficult or too easy and isn't enjoying it then no problem: the game scales for the level of challenge you want. Again, the sort of feature that is common in a computer game but is weirdly revolutionary in a miniatures board game. Not only is the difficulty variable but can be adjusted on the fly. Inspired! Unless you think a game only exists so you can demonstrate your superior brainpower and prowess at mastering it... shake

Personally, I don't like the heroes need a title to keep equipment etc rule; it seems unthematic and unsatisfying and we like playing mostly free-form, with the odd story quest thrown in (we mix them into the quest deck). So we keep whatever we get, and the heroes power up a lot quicker but it's not a problem: we just put more stuff out on the tiles as we get stronger. This system is genius.

The versatility and customizable nature of the experience is one of the great, innovative features of the game. Some people still aren't getting that and I'm guessing aren't going to.

It's not 'gaming the system' to place miniatures optimally; it's a play-style choice. But words like 'broken' shouldn't be coming anywhere near this conversation. Seriously, leave off with this macho 'ultra-pro gamer' type of mentality. The game is designed to be versatile, not as a puzzle to be solved.


Edit: I've only just realized how old this thread is...
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Judy Krauss
United States
Pittsburgh
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
but I'm not the only one
badge
My hands are small, I know, but they're not yours, they are my own
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
High Flying Bird wrote:
Personally, I don't like the heroes need a title to keep equipment etc rule; it seems unthematic and unsatisfying and we like playing mostly free-form, with the odd story quest thrown in (we mix them into the quest deck). So we keep whatever we get, and the heroes power up a lot quicker but it's not a problem: we just put more stuff out on the tiles as we get stronger. This system is genius.


I do the following and it seems to work pretty well:

Make a list of all items/equipment found/obtained by that character. Also keep track of items lost for whatever reason. Then when starting a new quest, decide what to take from the list, depending on what "story" you want to tell.

Given that the theme is bunch of heroes sitting around a campfire telling tall tales of past adventures, I've found that this fits the theme.

Some examples:
Remember that time when we were surrounded by crawlers but luckily I had the *insert whatever item here* which came in handy?

or

Remember when we were just starting out and I had to use a pot lid for a shield, but I had found this cool *insert whatever item here* -- which didn't help at all against the shamblers!

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
San Antonio
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It is simply more fun not to "think efficiently" during setup, but to think thematically. You don't know or understand why there are 8 grubbers and a Mucker heading down the trail toward you --but they are. Now as adventurers, let the efficiency begin --as you work to defeat them. Surprise yourself. Play efficiently, but setup thematically, which from a player point of view looks a little random sometimes.


2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Greg Von Chicken Pants
msg tools
You could set up a 'sub-optimal' hunting pack if you had a chapter quest condition which required it.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian M
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
High Flying Bird wrote:

Edit: I've only just realized how old this thread is...

Yes, it sure is. I was surprised to see a subscription notification on this one.

Quote:
We can play for as long as we want. Brilliant feature.

If the group is finding the game too difficult or too easy and isn't enjoying it then no problem: the game scales for the level of challenge you want.

The versatility and customizable nature of the experience is one of the great, innovative features of the game. Some people still aren't getting that and I'm guessing aren't going to.

HFB, I am afraid that you are under a basic misconception here. You are mistaking a feature that YOU have for a feature that Myth has.

You talk about how Myth scales to the time and difficulty you want.

OK, so I've got a 3 hero party, two of whom have two titles, and one who has one title and a card upgrade. I'd like to play about an hour and a half game with a tough but beatable challenge level (the party should be really low on HP at the end, but alive) ending in a nice climatic battle.

So, what sort of tiles and monsters do I place?

You might actually have an answer for that, but Myth certainly doesn't. There's nothing telling how you to scale the game by desired difficulty, player count, time you want to play or anything else.

Just "well, make stuff up".

But you don't actually need the game to give you permission to make stuff up. You can make stuff up in any game. You can say "Hey, let's meet two monsters per tile instead of one" in Castle Ravenloft. You can say "Let's arrange the ghost deck so colors always alternate" in Ghost Stories. You can say "well, we don't have enough time for a full game, but we can just play for an hour to get a feel for it" in whatever you want. You can ALWAYS do this in every game ever made.

But again, Myth gives no advice for how to make any of this stuff work. It doesn't even give a baseline to work from. It is literally less useful for playing the game to your taste than virtually every other game in existence.

As for the "innovation" level of "just make stuff up", I suggest that if you enjoy the concept you check out RPGs, which widely introduced the concept to commercial gaming over 30 years ago. Notice I only say "commercial gaming" as in "wrote it down in a marketed product". People have customizing games to their taste most likely for as long as there have been games! At a very minimum, we can see lots of customizing about 100 years ago with Monopoly.

Squatting Monkey wrote:
It is simply more fun not to "think efficiently" during setup, but to think thematically.

So, wait, are 8 or 7 grubbers more thematic? You must know a lot more about grubber ecology than I do!

(What the fnerk is a grubber anyway?)
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Miller

Columbus
Ohio
msg tools
Columbus, OH's best all '90s rock cover act: facebook.com/oddjobpolicy
badge
I can't believe your head exploded. If your head explodes, you'll never make it on BGG.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
StormKnight wrote:
As for the "innovation" level of "just make stuff up", I suggest that if you enjoy the concept you check out RPGs,


...or better yet, little green army men...
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.